Forum:Fallout New Vegas Critique

Hello guys. After doing a few reviews and other such videos with my friend for our website, I thought during our downtime before we tape our next video I would give you guys my impressions of the game and allow you to respectfully share yours on the same thread. Thank you.

First off, let me be clear that I am not a hard reviewer. I like series, specific series, and if I like them I tend to develop a prejudice and thus my review score is affected by this prejudice. I love the fallout series, and in general I loved Fallout 3, despite some of its undercomings. But I must say that while I love the fallout series I cannot deny some deep misgivings about this upcoming game.

One thing that worries me about any game is when a developer gives their rights up and lets another one take the helm. Obsidian had a lot of stuff to work with here, and all in all I think they did somethig quite predictable. they used the same engine. This alone is a thing that limits the overall game output quite largely; if the game engine is the same, no matter how different it ends up being from any of its other games with the same engine, it still has a remade feel if it is made for the same series (Legend of Zelda, lookin at ya). Basically, to be as blunt and concise as possible, Fallout New Vegas is a remake of Fallout 3, more like a large expansion pack than anything, that is strikingly similar, not fresh, with the same basic concept and very litttle innovation or creativity, that will leave gamers sore, betrayed and wanting more. I wanted to want the game (Thanks, Cheap Trick) but it is just such a terrible move by the series to make a similar game with the same engine and overall base concept and style of excecution. This game is to Fallout 3 as is Majora's Mask to Ocarina of time. Sorry for the concise review, we will have an in depth review published later and I'll give you guys a link. Thanks, and keep it clean (feel free to comment on your opinions, but do not trash me!!). SoPro~ 03:44, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Please don't say anything about "expansion packs". This is as much an expansion pack to Fallout 3 as Uncharted 2 is to Uncharted. It's not. Saying so will provoke people into another stupid mob. Nitty Tok. 03:46, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's silly to call it an expansion pack. It has as much content as Fallout 3, a brand new story, has many gameplay improvements. And why the Zelda comparisons if there is already an analogy within the Fallout franchise? It's to Fallout 3 what Fallout 2 is to Fallout. Ausir(talk) 09:27, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * While I was referring to it as being a large expansion pack, I was intending to say that due to the fact that they are using the same game engine it would appear that there is no new risk involved, honestly, i am excited about the shift from bethesda to obsidian, however, i was disappointed when i started hearing more specifics about the game. It would appear to me, that they are taking no risks in altering anything, gameplay wise, minus a few new weapons and locations, granted, the new areas will be massive, and although i look forward to new guns, i am still disappointed in that obsidian seems to be taking very little risks with the series
 * While I was referring to it as being a large expansion pack, I was intending to say that due to the fact that they are using the same game engine it would appear that there is no new risk involved, honestly, i am excited about the shift from bethesda to obsidian, however, i was disappointed when i started hearing more specifics about the game. It would appear to me, that they are taking no risks in altering anything, gameplay wise, minus a few new weapons and locations, granted, the new areas will be massive, and although i look forward to new guns, i am still disappointed in that obsidian seems to be taking very little risks with the series

I think they used the same engine because they wanted to be able to put another game out in a relatively short time period instead of making a whole new game. For example, if they had to make a new engine and redesign eeeeverything it'd be like Rage and take forever to get the game out. I feel like they didn't want to make the fans wait forever for a new game. I'm not implying they rushed it. I mean, Fallout and Fallout 2 look very similar design-wise and all that. It's the same idea from the engine standpoint-- they used the same models for the characters and everything (exceptions being the talking heads and some environment stuff). But it's the same situation with NV, although New Vegas has new stuff. They could have just used the same outfits on people and the same buildings and textures, but from what I can see now, they re-did almost all of it from an artwork standpoint. I'd give them more credit, there are probably 3D render-ers slaving away at stuff 24/7.

The only thing that would make me angry would be if it freezed all the time like FO3 did. I honestly can't believe they let that game get released when it's so buggy. That just doesn't happen in other games. 07:35, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Re-using engines has been done time and again and it has nothing to do with the quality of a game unless the engine was terrible to begin with. Almost all sequels do this, and a lot of sequels blow their predecessors away, in my opinion. Mass Effect 2, Fallout 2, Neverwinter Nights 2, KotOR 2, Baldur's Gate 2, Icewind Dale 2, Disgaea 2 & 3, are all sequels I can name off the top of my head I enjoyed more than the originals. Either the game will be bad or it will be good. If you liked Fallout 3, NV's use of the same engine will only be in an issue in your imagination. It's just not a valid point of criticism. -Schneidend 09:00, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Never played Fallout 1 and 2 I see, SoPro. Now I see why the Old Salts are so pissed at gamers who only know about Fallout is #3. Engine re-using is nothing new. The Thief series and System Shock 2, except Deadly Shadows, used the Dark Engine. Countless games use Unreal or Havok, So I think that engine similarities are the least of your worries. I guess a good way I can phrase it is this: Don't use Embryo to make NV a bad game, instead, use NV to make Embryo better. Big McLargeHuge 12:44, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

It seems that some people are not understanding what he is itying to say, i even feel tha same a way a little. (im talking about me here, but if im right about what i say then just tell me) When i herd that there was a swich of developers i was thinking that NV was going to be a NEW and long awaited addishen to the fallout thing... But it terns out that the fame is just going to play the same as FO3 wich is still a grate game but IDK. i geuss you can say that is it was bethesda, bt its not. It just seems that Obsidian is not doing anything new or (like what the guy sed erlyer) risky, it just seems that it douse not make a dam if it was Obsidian or Bethesda makeing the game. MrDot01 16:08, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * They just didn't have time nor resources to make a fundamentally different game this shortly after Fallout 3. Fallout 4 will likely have more improvements in terms of graphics, engine etc. but it will also take a lot more time to develop. Ausir(talk) 19:06, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * The only thing some people are not understanding, Dot01, is that creating games takes time and money. Creating a brand new game takes exponentially more. Re-using engines is part of the industry, and always has been, and always will be. Even Fallout 3 was just a re-skinned Oblivion, and I can almost guarantee almost anybody's favorite game was not made using a brand new engine. As I said, it's just not a valid point of critique.-Schneidend 01:25, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * it really seems that you dont understand what people are saying,schneidend, thay are saying that it feels the same as FO3. you seem to not understand that people are not saying that thay needed to do a brand new every thing with a small amount of cash and time, and think god you told use that it takes time and money to make a game ( im jking with you, im not stuped and not trying to be mean just haveing fun). the only Critique that was said was that the game does not feel new (stated by the 1st guy) thay could have tweeked it a little more then thay did that is all that was said. Last time i checked saying a game feels to much like a nother game is a valid point for critique, o and agein people are just stateing their opinion not facts :P o its MrDot01 to you heheheh MrDot01 01:57, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody has even played it so any feelings of "not-newness" are purely imaginary. Besides, Fallout 3 was awesome. I don't even need it to change. I would have been happy if New Vegas was just a completely new wasteland with no added features at all. I really just want more stuff to explore. If Obsidian wants to make new features like more weapons, that's just icing on the cake. I already wanted New Vegas when all we knew about it was that it would use the same gameplay engine as Fallout 3. I'm hoping Obsidian has the sense to make miniguns actually be powerful in the game without a perk like Defender, but everything else is just gravy for me. -Schneidend 02:57, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * All right, let's set this straight: Other games in this argument are irrelevant, I am not ignorant of previous Fallout games, and I do not care about any other standards in any other cases. This is a New Vegas opinion and therefore any other comparisons are non-applicable. I wanted Obsidian to take risks and make a new game, reinvent the franchise, considering they were a new freaking developer, and they took the easy way out and did not. End of discussion. And just to clear the record, this (New Vegas) was, in my opinion, supposed to be Fallout 4, or at least somewhat like it. I can obviously see now that this will not be Fallout 4, and more like an expansion. I WANT SOMETHING NEW, BUT YET STILL IN THE REALMS OF THE SERIES. Let me name some freaking games "off the top of my head" that were in the same series but completely different: Pitfall the Lost Expedition, Super Mario 64, Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, etc. Don't insult my intelligence or yours by being snarky. SoPro~ 01:13, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good grief, there's a lot of hate from the anti-NV side.
 * Anyway, I feel just fine with another game with the same engine. Just like a huge expansion. I'd be really happy if this was compatible with fallout 3 files on the geck (does anyone know if it is?) so one could make inter-game custom weapons.It&#39;s a shame that Blobbersberries can&#39;t get the signature to work so this&#39;ll do. 19:53, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * It would appear you set those conditions because they contradict your viewpoint, SoPro. But, praytell, what risks would you have liked them to take? How would you have liked them to "reinvent the franchise"? If you're going to say anything involving the word "isometric" or the phrase "turn-based", please go shoot yourself in the head. Baseproduct 07:40, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wind Waker was the same 3D Zelda as Ocarina of Time but with a new paintjob. Super Mario 64 and Lost Expedition were a natural progression from 2D to 3D. Fallout already made the 2D-3D leap, so it can't really be "revolutionized" as drastically as you're expecting. You're setting your expectations way too high, and no Fallout game, or any game for that matter, is going to be meeting those expectations any time soon. Moreover, it's dangerous to expect Obsidian to create a brand new game engine. They usually don't finish the games where they already have an existing engine to work with. We can only hope they don't suffer the same troubles they did with KotOR2 during NV's development. Hoping for anything else is simply unrealistic for a sequel being released barely more than two years later. -Schneidend 10:10, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, this Sopro guy has scooped the ENTIRE world. He's played NV and posted a review!!! Whoa, that game's not coming out for months, but are'nt we lucky to have his review, based on screenshots and trailers. Too bad he does'nt like it much. You know what though? I bet he buys it anyway. Just so he can write a review for his first review.24.185.250.236 14:20, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... Cynical, much? I was mostly just trying to keep up with the trolls on this forum as the meat of my argument. As a matter of fact, this is not a review for the game, it is a critique OF THE INFORMATION OUT SO FAR. Which, as of a few months ago when I wrote this, was a bit shaky, I'll admit. I don't know what I was expecting, but you can't tell me your hopes were for a game with identical gameplay that looks and plays exactly the same, almost to the point of an expansion pack. Obviously I can never have a good discussion here because there are too many fanboys and idiots on this thread for it to be possible. I guess I'll just throw in the towel and rest my case. But as a final point, all I wanted was a game that was more of a visual or conceptual leap in any way shape or form for the sequel. As for some exsamples, here are some (some of my past ones were BAAAD): Assassin's Creed series, Far Cry series, Just Cause Series etc. Maybe if you would focus less on taking apart my argument and more on just posting normal, non-threatening comments we could co-exist peacefully on this thread and not want to strangle each other...?SoPro~ 23:21, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good grief, there's a lot of hate from the anti-NV side.
 * Anyway, I feel just fine with another game with the same engine. Just like a huge expansion. I'd be really happy if this was compatible with fallout 3 files on the geck (does anyone know if it is?) so one could make inter-game custom weapons.It&#39;s a shame that Blobbersberries can&#39;t get the signature to work so this&#39;ll do. 19:53, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * It would appear you set those conditions because they contradict your viewpoint, SoPro. But, praytell, what risks would you have liked them to take? How would you have liked them to "reinvent the franchise"? If you're going to say anything involving the word "isometric" or the phrase "turn-based", please go shoot yourself in the head. Baseproduct 07:40, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wind Waker was the same 3D Zelda as Ocarina of Time but with a new paintjob. Super Mario 64 and Lost Expedition were a natural progression from 2D to 3D. Fallout already made the 2D-3D leap, so it can't really be "revolutionized" as drastically as you're expecting. You're setting your expectations way too high, and no Fallout game, or any game for that matter, is going to be meeting those expectations any time soon. Moreover, it's dangerous to expect Obsidian to create a brand new game engine. They usually don't finish the games where they already have an existing engine to work with. We can only hope they don't suffer the same troubles they did with KotOR2 during NV's development. Hoping for anything else is simply unrealistic for a sequel being released barely more than two years later. -Schneidend 10:10, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, this Sopro guy has scooped the ENTIRE world. He's played NV and posted a review!!! Whoa, that game's not coming out for months, but are'nt we lucky to have his review, based on screenshots and trailers. Too bad he does'nt like it much. You know what though? I bet he buys it anyway. Just so he can write a review for his first review.24.185.250.236 14:20, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... Cynical, much? I was mostly just trying to keep up with the trolls on this forum as the meat of my argument. As a matter of fact, this is not a review for the game, it is a critique OF THE INFORMATION OUT SO FAR. Which, as of a few months ago when I wrote this, was a bit shaky, I'll admit. I don't know what I was expecting, but you can't tell me your hopes were for a game with identical gameplay that looks and plays exactly the same, almost to the point of an expansion pack. Obviously I can never have a good discussion here because there are too many fanboys and idiots on this thread for it to be possible. I guess I'll just throw in the towel and rest my case. But as a final point, all I wanted was a game that was more of a visual or conceptual leap in any way shape or form for the sequel. As for some exsamples, here are some (some of my past ones were BAAAD): Assassin's Creed series, Far Cry series, Just Cause Series etc. Maybe if you would focus less on taking apart my argument and more on just posting normal, non-threatening comments we could co-exist peacefully on this thread and not want to strangle each other...?SoPro~ 23:21, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * It would appear you set those conditions because they contradict your viewpoint, SoPro. But, praytell, what risks would you have liked them to take? How would you have liked them to "reinvent the franchise"? If you're going to say anything involving the word "isometric" or the phrase "turn-based", please go shoot yourself in the head. Baseproduct 07:40, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wind Waker was the same 3D Zelda as Ocarina of Time but with a new paintjob. Super Mario 64 and Lost Expedition were a natural progression from 2D to 3D. Fallout already made the 2D-3D leap, so it can't really be "revolutionized" as drastically as you're expecting. You're setting your expectations way too high, and no Fallout game, or any game for that matter, is going to be meeting those expectations any time soon. Moreover, it's dangerous to expect Obsidian to create a brand new game engine. They usually don't finish the games where they already have an existing engine to work with. We can only hope they don't suffer the same troubles they did with KotOR2 during NV's development. Hoping for anything else is simply unrealistic for a sequel being released barely more than two years later. -Schneidend 10:10, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, this Sopro guy has scooped the ENTIRE world. He's played NV and posted a review!!! Whoa, that game's not coming out for months, but are'nt we lucky to have his review, based on screenshots and trailers. Too bad he does'nt like it much. You know what though? I bet he buys it anyway. Just so he can write a review for his first review.24.185.250.236 14:20, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... Cynical, much? I was mostly just trying to keep up with the trolls on this forum as the meat of my argument. As a matter of fact, this is not a review for the game, it is a critique OF THE INFORMATION OUT SO FAR. Which, as of a few months ago when I wrote this, was a bit shaky, I'll admit. I don't know what I was expecting, but you can't tell me your hopes were for a game with identical gameplay that looks and plays exactly the same, almost to the point of an expansion pack. Obviously I can never have a good discussion here because there are too many fanboys and idiots on this thread for it to be possible. I guess I'll just throw in the towel and rest my case. But as a final point, all I wanted was a game that was more of a visual or conceptual leap in any way shape or form for the sequel. As for some exsamples, here are some (some of my past ones were BAAAD): Assassin's Creed series, Far Cry series, Just Cause Series etc. Maybe if you would focus less on taking apart my argument and more on just posting normal, non-threatening comments we could co-exist peacefully on this thread and not want to strangle each other...?SoPro~ 23:21, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, this Sopro guy has scooped the ENTIRE world. He's played NV and posted a review!!! Whoa, that game's not coming out for months, but are'nt we lucky to have his review, based on screenshots and trailers. Too bad he does'nt like it much. You know what though? I bet he buys it anyway. Just so he can write a review for his first review.24.185.250.236 14:20, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... Cynical, much? I was mostly just trying to keep up with the trolls on this forum as the meat of my argument. As a matter of fact, this is not a review for the game, it is a critique OF THE INFORMATION OUT SO FAR. Which, as of a few months ago when I wrote this, was a bit shaky, I'll admit. I don't know what I was expecting, but you can't tell me your hopes were for a game with identical gameplay that looks and plays exactly the same, almost to the point of an expansion pack. Obviously I can never have a good discussion here because there are too many fanboys and idiots on this thread for it to be possible. I guess I'll just throw in the towel and rest my case. But as a final point, all I wanted was a game that was more of a visual or conceptual leap in any way shape or form for the sequel. As for some exsamples, here are some (some of my past ones were BAAAD): Assassin's Creed series, Far Cry series, Just Cause Series etc. Maybe if you would focus less on taking apart my argument and more on just posting normal, non-threatening comments we could co-exist peacefully on this thread and not want to strangle each other...?SoPro~ 23:21, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... Cynical, much? I was mostly just trying to keep up with the trolls on this forum as the meat of my argument. As a matter of fact, this is not a review for the game, it is a critique OF THE INFORMATION OUT SO FAR. Which, as of a few months ago when I wrote this, was a bit shaky, I'll admit. I don't know what I was expecting, but you can't tell me your hopes were for a game with identical gameplay that looks and plays exactly the same, almost to the point of an expansion pack. Obviously I can never have a good discussion here because there are too many fanboys and idiots on this thread for it to be possible. I guess I'll just throw in the towel and rest my case. But as a final point, all I wanted was a game that was more of a visual or conceptual leap in any way shape or form for the sequel. As for some exsamples, here are some (some of my past ones were BAAAD): Assassin's Creed series, Far Cry series, Just Cause Series etc. Maybe if you would focus less on taking apart my argument and more on just posting normal, non-threatening comments we could co-exist peacefully on this thread and not want to strangle each other...?SoPro~ 23:21, August 30, 2010 (UTC)