Forum:Communcation and Transportation

Okay I'm getting ready to write a FF and i need to know 2 things. I cant find them. They are ether only said a few times or so trivial they are implied.

Communication and Transportation.

Communication- How did the BoS east communicate with the West? Telegraph or Radio would be the most likely but that distance with the destruction seems unlikely Cell phones (or a variation) would be okay assuming the Satellites were still active, If they were solar powered this could be possible, but ether way, is their a Canon indication to this?

transportation- This is easier I'm assuming they traveled on foot for most of their journey (BoS east) but was their any other Canon, Airships out, indication of what they could have used to travel the great distance?

Tactics says they used airships, but that's sort of semi-canon so it can't be trusted

There's evidence of trucks working in Fallout 3, such as one parked by the rockland car tunnel with the BoS logo on it. Otherwise, it may well have been done on foot with pack brahmin. Even with trucks, I think most of the troops would be walking alongside.

For communication, I think it would be radio. Go look it up on wikipedia; it's probably signals bounced off the troposphere, rather than satellite communication. BoS seems like a WW2-era force, just with better-equipped and trained infantry. Skorpychan 01:43, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I like the radio but pack brahmin just doesn't sound right trucks wouldn't work due to the rivers in between. We know they went to The Pit so (Non-Canon)they could have went South to Texas refueling there and took the Mississippi river north to the Ohio to Pennsylvania or going Canon they could have went north and followed a BoS outpost path to Oregon and moved east or took straight path but still judging by the condition of the bridges in D.C. most would be cracked if not broken so the problem is, how did they forge the rivers or did they travel on them?


 * Uh, none of the answer provide any sort of resolution to the question "How in hell did they manage to learn about muties in DC in the first place?" http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 08:51, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Well.. This would be impossible to answer in from Cannon text (Correct me if I'm wrong tho please) I could come up with 4 answers Non Cannon 1:A recon team sent to DC, This would have been small 2 to 3 man team sent to recon and see if it wasn't completely destroyed. 2: Refugees from DC or traders told the area about the DC mutants which might be the most likely. 3: They could have a list of the vaults like the Capital Wasteland BoS members. 4:They also could have gained the knowledge from a Unknown Enclave base or from the original base they were stationed at before they started BoS.
 * Oh for fucks sake.
 * 1. A RECON team? Newsflash: DC is on the other side of the continent. You don't send recon teams on pointless missions across the entire postnuclear continent.
 * 2. Refugees from DC in California? ...right...
 * 3. And? Why would they bother with Vaults? Vaults were never in the area of interest of the Brotherhood, technology was. And technology can be obtained from the myriad of bases all closer to Cali than DC.
 * 4. Because the Enclave has nothing better to do than observing a nuked out DC.
 * The problem is, it all bases on the preposition that the Brotherhood would somehow want to destroy all supermutants. It does not, since that's a pointless waste of resources and supermutants can be productive members of society. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 23:31, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Than Smartass What do you think? The fact here is that they knew about the Super mutants before they sent out a team, and given they wated the tech, that's one of the reasons why they sent the team across the waste. So instead of bashing me come up with your own solutions. O and BTW Remember Harold he had the ambition to be a trader and traveled across the U.S. meaning it is possible just not documented, So how is a trader unlikely?

Sorry Now im going to bash you 1: Really I see your point but the BoS is hellbent on getting technology a 2 man recon team to scout the east would be better than sending a full team to die in a desert town 2: ^^(above) 3: You just contradicted yourself in the same paragraph Vaults are inclosed areas where loads of old Technology could exist Even if it was broken remember they would use the spare pats to recreate the old technology 4: Really? are you joking a government army leaded by the president. no.. they wouldn't want to watch D.C.  (5)Your right they wouldn't but if you were going to settle into a new area you would want to know who was there.. Wouldn't you? They only care about technology but are not stupid... -- OP
 * You're trying to explain Fo3 with Fo3... that's not very bright. I'll try to write it down so that even the most mentally challenged can understand it:
 * 1. The Brotherhood of Steel is a small, elitist organization. It doesn't have access to many resources, nor does it have extreme manpower.
 * 2. Therefore, any expedition must have a high chance for success for them to be interested in it.
 * 3. It's indicated by Fo1 - for 80 years, the Brotherhood maintained Lost Hills and not much else - it's a xenophobic, self-contained order.
 * 4. There are hundreds of military bases in the neighbouring states, Area 51 for instance. Trekking across the wastes basing on the supposition that maybe something is in DC is not reasonable. It's batshit fucking crazy.
 * 5. The Brotherhood should not be in DC. It's a stupid decision on Bethesda's part, trying to hammer in as much of the old concepts of Fallout games as possible. They have no reason for being there, as more tech is available on the West Coast and neighbouring states (for instance, Big Empty, Boulder, Bloomfield, Jericho, Maxson Bunker...) and they have no way of learning about the muties in DC and even if they did, they wouldn't care. Bethesda's BoS is detached so far from the original Brotherhood it divejumps from fitting straight to haphazardly jammed in. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 06:46, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Trucks may well have been able to pass rivers. Remember, in WW2 theere was the DWCK, an amphibious truck capable of navigating rough seas. So, either the BoS had something like that, or they had something like modern bridge-laying tanks, or just temporary bridges. If all else failed, they could have found/created a ford, or located a highway bridge. Frankly? I suggest you go study military logistics and technology. Wikipedia's right there, so's youtube.

As for the WHY, that's not really the question here. Otherwise, it's the goddamn nation's capital. There's got to be something interesting there. And there is, frankly. The pentagon, which is the damn pentagon. Forts independence, bannister, and constantine. The museum of technology, the national archives, rivet city, which is a damn supercarrier beached in the river basin (and probably WHY the demn potomac basin is radioactive, due to a cracked reactor vessel), the capitol building, the metro system, raven rock, the main robco and nuka-cola plants, and many other pre-war manufacturing sites. Skorpychan 03:00, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And the West has none? Now that's a stupid argument. If the Brotherhood was so hell bent on acquiring technology, then enlighten me, why didn't they excavate the Glow? Sierra Army Depot? Returned to Mariposa? Salvaged Necropolis? Conquered the Shi? Bloomfield? Big Empty? Tibbets Facility? Nursery? Los Alamos Research Laboratory?
 * You can't give any convincing reason for them to be salvaging tech in DC when a lot more technology is available in locations near California. And don't go "it's the capital, dude!". It's irrelevant. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 06:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but the west has already been investigated by the BoS. Lost hills, the glow, and the fallout 1 and 2 locations that aren't enclave or NCR controlled. The east is unbroken ground for them, and it'll decentralise them in case of another supervillainous plot. Skorpychan 17:49, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * They had them investigated? Bullshit. If you played Fallout, you'd know they didn't even investigate the Glow - Dennis Allen's squad went rogue, taking their power armour with them, they weren't an officially sanctioned expedition. Not to mention that by 2241 they were in decline - it wouldn't happen if they had, as you say, investigated the high tech locations around them.
 * Even so, why the East? It's too far away, especially when its a nuked out wasteland. Why not go north or to Texas? http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 21:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay I'm done, this is far from what I wanted. Until they announce that what Bethesda wrote is Non-Canon, The fact remains they did go across the waste to get the technology. So... Lets stay on topic until than. - OP
 * Uh, no. Even if Bethesda said it, it's stupid and doesn't fit in. I'll give you an analogy - rationalizing this POS storyline is like trying to hammer in a round block into a square slot. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 21:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Did i say it was Smart? No, I said it happened. We all know why they crossed the Waste because Bethesda wanted DC not Texas, but as i said they did cross it Smart or not...-OP

Well, I think the idea of the BoS investigating DC is very plausible, im sure in many archives they have searched it must have mentioned that DC was the capitol before the bombs fell so it seems like common sense that the most advanced technology would be there, seeing as how in FO2 the Enclave seemed to be gaining a major foothold on the land the BoS may have become desperate and sent a substantial force to investigate DC, its a shot in the dark yes, but it seems like a risk they may have needed to take, as for how the BoS knew about the Super Mutants in the area they could have learned about them from GNR, as evidenced by the fact that you can upgrade the signal to reach the entire capitol wasteland it is entirely possible that the signal reaches further than that and could have been heard by the BoS who were near- *Loki*
 * Did you even bother to read what I wrote? Or do you just spout inane bullshit and strawmen? The Brotherhood would not make a shot in the dark, you imbecile, they were far too weak to expedite manpower and resources on such a trip, especially when undiscovered, unclaimed military bases still existed in locations closer to the West Coast, hell, Sierra Army Depot was a sealed pre-War base entirely within the Brotherhood's range, evidenced by their Den listening outpost. Since they didn't claim it, it's a strong indication they were either not interested or too weak to perform such a feat.
 * That's ignoring the fact that Lyons' detachment was sent to the East Coast well over a decade after the Oil Rig was blown up, so there was no need to do so, especially if a war with the NCR was going on - diminishing your numbers is a moronical idea. Oh, and the GNR idea is idiocy too - it started in 2272, SEVENTEEN years AFTER the Brotherhood arrived in DC.
 * Seriously people, are you retarded or what? http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 15:26, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

Ok let me give this a shot. lets think of how intelligent humans realy are we are creatures of fault they never said that Lyons BoS didnt Hit Texas, or any of the other areas on thier way across the nation, assuming he left thirty Years Prior to FO3 and seeing as how no info is given to wether the NCR War lasted very long leaves it opento the Idea that the War ended quickly and when it ended they sent a large detachment out East to scrounge up any tech in the areas between Cali.and D.C and then when they had raped the rest of theCountry for tech. they would go back, it was possibly supposed to be a ten to twenty year expedition. when they got to D.C they set up shop in the pentagon while moving through they came into contact with the sttlements looking for tech. but found the East coast Supermutants. Elder Lyons went soft while thereand abbandoned the origional mission which is why the outcast's exist. The outcasts say that they will get back out the West and have the Lyons BoS removed for Treason to their mission. There is alot of Tech in D.C so there is a god reason for them to head there, and there is the possibility they feared that the ENclave would gain power on the other coast and wage a war against them so as a precaution they went out to take all the Tech they could get before the ENclavearrived/

To the OP they said in FO3 that they have no Radios and so  there is no communication between the East and West  coast, they have no transportation i belive it was all done by foot seing as how they have absolutley no vehicles while the Enclave has an army of VertibirdsAntily3f 03:50, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

You know Bethodsta should of said that the BOS sent a small team out to DC and picked up recruits along the way. Its a long journey to DC so why not? ( i amn not saying they just picked random wastelanders) Sec 19 14:51, October 23, 2009 (UTC) Sec 19

About how the BoS could have know bout the DC muties: Merchants and gossip. It is logical. Some DC merchant tells about the muties to one in The Pit, and so on until the news reach California. It could take years, but it is a strong posibility. Mekorig 01:36, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Cellphones are way out - its not just a satellite you need; its a local radio transmitter on both ends as well as backhaul (which could be a satellite). TBH the easiest way I can think of is likely a radio transmission. Stick a large enough antenna up (not too hard) and get a lot of power (no problem when you have nuclear powered armour) and select the right radio frequency (Shortwaves notorious for carrying a long way away); job done. Agent c 03:03, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

The Pentagon would be a very likely place for the brotherhood to go. It would contain records of the prewar military bases secret technology and the condition of the world before the bombs fell. It would be far easier to march from California to DC than to roam the the four corners states and Texas to see if you can find a missile silo of a base of some kind. The pentagon may contain information about subs or battle ship locations. this information would be invaluable. the BOS also did recruit local people once in DC. The real problem With FO3 is that the buildings contained no use full information. That would of been the best place to learn about other countries before and during the war. It could of told us more about clandestine operations of America the Chinese and others. IF the BOS could spare any men that seams like it would be the first place to explore outside the west.

The Brotherhood are almost entirely the descendents of US military personnel from a very high-security facility. It's not inconceivable that some of them would have heard of the Liberty Prime project in vague terms, something about a "superweapon" that would end wars all by itself, the sort of rumor that's tough to ignore. They also scavenged from several other bases to build up their store of technology, information, and manufacturing capabilities; bases where other references to the secret weapon in the base of the Pentagon could have been found. Having numerous credible sources pointing to a unique piece of cutting-edge Pre-War technology could then lead the Elders to authorize an expedition, since they'd know exactly where they were going and had a good idea of what they'd find there. Then, Lyons And Friends get all caught up in pushing back the super mutants and shift from a xenophobic technocracy to a humanitarian army. It's really far-fetched and it would've been better in the long run for Bethesda to make up their own faction that uses leftover power armor, but it's not completely impossible. --Veazey21 05:42, October 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Read above for reasons why it's a stupid idea for the Brotherhood to send a detachment to DC. As you say, it is truly far fetched, especially considering the multitude of more useful technology near California: Helios One, Nellis, Sierra Madre, Big MT, Hopeville and Ashton, REPCONN sites, Lucky 38 etc. I really doubt a single, unfinished robot (if the BoS truly knew about Liberty Prime, they'd also know that he was a project left unfinished due to the impossibility of it) is going to be more valuable than locations that significantly augment the industrial and military capacity of the Brotherhood. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 08:31, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I agree that Bethesda chose poorly when deciding to drop the Brotherhood on the other side of the continent just to remind us that it's still Fallout and there are a huge number of logistical hurdles to have overcome. Mostly, I just wanted to explain how I'd rationalized it to myself: people in leadership roles often do things that are unpredictable and ill-advised because they get caught in a mental rut and become too focused on one specific goal or method. A recent real-world example that got turned around before it was too late is Netflix and the whole "Qwikster" debacle. Their CEO got too focused on streaming plans when most of their customers still wanted DVDs through the mail and now they've lost 800,000 customers. I see this in a similar light: maybe some of the Elders got too focused on the reports of this superior weapon, downplayed the parts about it being unfinished, and became so convinced that the Brotherhood are the only ones who should have it that they built an airship, filled it full of knights & paladins, and sent 'em on a cross-country flight. Then, Lyons already being one of those rare members that thought technology should help people instead of just be hoarded, the situations in the Pitt & DC's ruins turned them away from their stated mission and drew them into a stalemate with the mutants. Really, the "detachment strays from initial mission and turns humanitarian" bit is the most believable part of the whole story. --Veazey21 17:28, October 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Which is still far fetched. No leadership obsesses over rumors of something on the other side of the continent, when they have a WAR on their hands. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 15:06, November 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * US Government during the Afganistan war worrying about the rumours of Weapons of Mass Distraction in Iraq excepted. Agent c 23:40, November 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, poor leadership does. An organization like the Brotherhood doesn't survive for 200 years on nothing but bad leadership, but I'm sure it's had its moments.  I forgot about the Brotherhood-NCR war, though. --Veazey21 20:13, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe the author of Tales of a Junktown Jerky Vendor did a book signing in D.C. and mentioned the mutants when he got back to Junktown. :P --OvaltinePatrol 00:39, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I like the explanation above where leaders make stupid decisions. I know some of us like to think that both the Enclave and the Brotherhood of Steel are too smart to make some really stupid mistakes, but it is very possible that their loyalty to their goals and set purpose were their undoing. I never played Fallout 1 or 2 and therefore can't cite examples of how the Enclave leadership made stupid decisions, but New Vegas does a pretty good job summing up the blunders of the Brotherhood of Steel. They are so devoted to their codex that they would rather die in a bunker underground then even dare go against it. Not everyone mind you, but alot of them, and if even the leader recognizes this, majority unfortunately rules, even if it's stupid.

So the Brotherhood getting full of themselves thinking that the old world technology is as good as theirs and sending a sizeable amount of their number across the continent to sieze even more technology while eradicating the super mutatant threat, is not only plausible but pretty likely. As for how they did it, the air-ship is not too far-fetched, with enough scavengable vertibird engines and propellors and/or ingeniuty the idea of a mass transport that can pretty much traverse the entire continent in twenty years un-contested is enough to satisfy my scrutiny. Heck, it didn't even make it without crashing so it wasn't perfect or anything.

Is it beyond possibility for the Enclave to do the same thing, replacing the Codex with the American Dream, full of themselves with getting their butts kicked, and airship with mobile base crawler, it is not only plausible but once again acceptable for my tastes.

Sorry about that, going to the question, I kinda tackled transportation no matter how unfortunately canon for some, but for communication the telegraph actually seems like the best choice as telegraph wires from U.S. to England still exist today and could exist possibly intact even after an apocolypse, if its a complex network and not just one giant line. Satellites exist but I doubt the Brotherhood was lucky enough to ping into one with good enough condition to reach across the continent, but then again random NCR soldiers put GPS beacons into supply crates and apparently your Pip-Boy can track it too so this is possible too.

The East coast BoS said they lost contact with the West, either that the damaged wires they were relying on could've failed, or the West were too caught up in their pride to bother talking to them. Even Lyons is said to have been too proud to even consider mediating with the Outcasts so the West coast ignoring them is not out of the question. They also broke contact with the Chicago ditatchment (canon or not) because they have gone 'Rogue' without further explanation. The Fallout associated with the Midwest Brotherhood is generally considered un-canon so at this point 'rogue' could mean anything.

Finally, I'm not a damn satellite engineer, radio expert, military logistics specialist, or Tom fucking Clancey, so believe me when I acknowledge that I do not know for certain what I'm talking about. So you can scrutinize my thoughts and even my grasp of the Enlgish language and knowledge, but know that if you do, then I'm disappointed that you can't even add your thoughts to someone who's kind enough to actually want to hear them.

Don't get me wrong, correction is not only necessary but preffered, but bashing every mistake I make just to make you seem greater is just pathetic in my book. I'm not trying to be foolish, stupid or forgetful, so please don't treat me like I am. --98.243.106.164 20:59, November 4, 2011 (UTC)