Forum:Help with ammo in the PnP games?

Hey all. I've been staring at the PnP Vault for a long time, and I'm finally getting around to setting up my own twisted set of PnP rules for a Fallout text adventure. I really like J.E. Sawyer's rules when it comes to stuff, so I'm basically cannibalizing all of his work. :P

I'm stuck on one little tidbit, though. Ammo. Because Sawyer's wiki is offline and the PnP wiki is a half-baked idea without the little amount of Simple that's there, I can't find a decent answer to my question.

Ya see, Sawyer designed ammo so that every gun that used a type of bullet did the same basic amount of damage, determined by the ammo, not the gun. A 9mm handgun did the same damage as a 9mm SMG.

Problem is, he never explained his terminology on ammo modifiers. See here.

I need some help figuring out what AV is. It's not DT, it's not DR. Vault PnP won't tell me, and neither will Vault proper. So, I need either somebody who knew what it meant (IE, Ausir or maybe Grizzly.) to spill the beans, or I need somebody to make up an idea that will fit nicely. Any takers? Reward is a plate of internet chocolate chip cookies. :P Nitty Tok. 02:03, May 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I had a look at that page, and based on the ratings given to various ammo types, it would seem to be a modifier on how they react to armour. AP working better, hollow points not working as well (as per real life), but the broadhead arrows have thrown me. Surely a broadhead would be less effective against armour? Anyway, I don't know how this stacks up with DT or DR. Ishotamaninnewreno 13:50, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was thinking that it stood for "armor value". I was thinking that AV would basically be DT as well as 1/10th of DR. IE, a .44 AP round would go through 2 normal DT and 20 normal DR before being effected. Nitty Tok. 13:53, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * That sounds workable, although you might want to replace broadhead with bodkin or something similar for real world consistency. Did I understand you right and you are building a fallout text adventure? Like Zork? If that is so I'm going to have to build a Nitty shrine or something. Ishotamaninnewreno 05:34, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * After I'm finished rebuilding Van Buren. :P
 * I'm building my own PnP D&D-esque Fallout system, because the two we have are both incomplete and bullshit worthless as they are right now. Jason Mical's is okay with combat and armor, J.E. Sawyer has better guns and ammo, and they both have incompatible SPECIAL/SIMPLE, so I'm using Van Buren's SPECIAL. I'mma make a wiki for it in about two weeks, it'll keep me busy over the summer. Like the other two, I'm no professional when it comes to PnP, so if you know anything about good role-playing games, I'd really enjoy some help. Nitty Tok. 21:46, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Count me in mate, I'm a PnP role player from way back. Ishotamaninnewreno 02:53, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hells yeah! Thanks! :D Nitty Tok. 03:06, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Update: It seems AV is also used for melee weapons and traps as well. With the large amounts of AV listed under the melee weapons, I doubt it's an increase or decrease in armor. Nitty Tok. 16:06, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, that certainly muddies the water. Is it possible that the A stands for Action? I see its listed in the mode section, but most of the weapons listed only have one mode so it would probably make more sense for the base AP to be changed if that was it. I'll have a think about it at work today (yay! Working on a Sunday!) and come back to you. Ishotamaninnewreno 01:39, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * There's one of the problems; there's no AP in Simple. You get one attack of any type (single, aimed, or burst) per Action Phase. I'm waaaay confused by Sawyer at this point, especially because some of his perks (like bonus HtH attacks) contradict his rules...
 * I'm going to need to do a lot of retooling for my own system. I'll probably make the wiki for it by next Friday... Nitty Tok. 01:43, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, no difference in time for aimed and single shots? Thats in need of some balancing. With the re-tool, you should consider using an AP system, that would definitely keep the Fallout flavour. Looking forward to next Friday then, once we have a core rule system in place I can conduct some thorough testing with my gaming group. Ishotamaninnewreno 11:28, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am considering that, yeah. It's too bad that VB's AP isn't finished either. The Colt pistol in the tech demo uses 12 AP, the Rhienmetall AG machine pistol uses 15. But the 14mm in the design docs uses 5, and the Sniper rifle uses 6... which are the F1 and F2 AP. Those would probably be better...
 * In addition, the difference is that an aimed shot to the torso is no different than a quick shot, which is always aimed at the torso. Therefore, they're actually pretty balanced, due to the low to-hit percentages and the need for multiple shots to cripple a limb, unlike a LK or EN roll in F1 and F2. Nitty Tok. 01:46, June 8, 2010 (UTC)