Forum:Fuss over "Modern" weapons?

Every so often I read some posts and the subject of "Modern" weapons comes in and people argue whether or not they should be in game. Ever since this, I think "Modern" weapons have been added. I don't agree with calling them "Modern" in terms of the FO world but i'll leave it at that for now. For those who enjoyed the story and lore of the FO world you'd find this a little strange if these kinds of weapons were widely avalible to people. I'm not arguing if they should be there or not; I'm asking those with deeper knowledge of the FO world how could this be explained. I played FO1, 2, tactics, and 3 so I've seen lots of the weapons that don't seems to fit perfectly if not at all in the FO3 world, but most of them were rare. In short, is there a way to added weapons people regard as more modern and familar into the game with a way to explain it?

Any thoughts or insights into the subject would be nice, RadScarab 21:45, February 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, real-world-weapons would make Fallout look too "average". Fallout is about change, not only mutations, nuclear wars, but also weapons should reflect this. You can have real-world-weapons in every WW2 & 21th century game, but Fallout is different, literally. I guess many older Fallout fans aren't very involved with the FPS scene and don't have a favorite weapon from counter strike and stuff.


 * Edit: Oh and ignore Tactics, that game had some stupid weaponry.


 * Rootmars 22:11, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Right, a lot of the weaponry and equipment... Hell, the whole damn game is supposed to be absurd. It's (Supposed to be) completely satirical. More recent installations are, unfortunately, being reigned in by the nutty murderlust sociopaths (Which wouldn't be so bad if they got the point, but they're fucking retarded... To the point of being absolutely genius... In a borg way). In the next installation they'll manage to sneak an Abrams tank in there somehow, maybe a scoped SAW!!!... duuuuuuhhhhh..... Metalfrenchtoast 06:08, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fallout ain't satire. It might be tongue in cheek or darkly humorous, but it's not satire or comedy. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 07:57, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course Fallout is satire (and a parody), it's satire of the 50's pulp fiction Sci-Fi and it's a parody of the of a post nuclear Apocolypse, probably one of the few Satirical games out (that is well made)Mr Habberdasher 14:05, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

So a maniacal president living on an oil rig named Dick Richardson or a mentally diminished vice president named Daniel Bird isn't satirical? Metalfrenchtoast 07:05, February 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * I used to have the same feelings about Fallout 3 mods that added "modern" weapons to the game, but I soon realized the only matter that was important was mesh and texture quality. No, if you have bad vibes about modern weapons in future Fallout installments you should also have issues with Fallout 2 (which, you very well may), with it's G11's P90's, and CAWS's. Though, giving what you guys are talking about it seems like people have other reasons in mind for disliking them. --96.243.180.45 17:50, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

I thought Fallout 2 was cool, but yeah, I'm always kind of erked to see a butt-load of real world weapons in a sci-fi setting. It just seems like a waste of time to fill a game with real-world weapons when you could spend all of that time inventing false-world ones. I see a lot of the same guns in games, partly due to the limited number of guns in the real world. In a "realistic" setting, okay I can understand that, but why do people want to see the same gun so much? Seems like some kind of psychotic devotion. I mean... Wouldn't it be silly if Rick Deckard just had some stupid Colt .45 in Bladerunner? Gets kinda boring, that's all. Metalfrenchtoast 05:59, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Here's an idea what if the 'modern' weapons were invented AFTER the Great War. Gangsters, Brotherhood of Steel, NCR, raiders etc could have made some.-Sec 19 23:11, February 28, 2010 (UTC) Sec 19
 * Do you have any idea, any at all, how complicated modern guns are? http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 07:42, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * TBH i'd love it if they put in every gun thats been in the trilogy so far, if it been in fallout 1,2 and 3 then the guns exist in canon even if their is a divergence, more guns, more funs (so long as they are well made, and have a realistic fire rate the guns in FO3 was just a tad slow) Mr Habberdasher 22:49, March 1, 2010 (UT

Personally, I don't really care if my AK47/M16/M2 Browning/S&W500/M82 shoot a few holes into the Fallout lore. I like those weapons, and I intend to use them. Besides, the M2 Browning was invented before the divergence happened(The P51 Mustang had six of them in it, three in each wing, and there were two P51's in Fallout 3), so it fits into Fallout lore. I also happen to know it's canon as it was a player-useable weapon in one of the first two Fallouts(Fo2 I think), why it never showed up in Fo3 I'll never know. Perhaps it's a bit unrealistic as far as wielding is concerned, but you could say the same thing for any other big gun in the game.The AK47 was invented about the same time, so it stands to reason it's also lore-friendly(And the chinese assault rifle is quite strongly AK-based, so it stands to reason that the AK fits the same way the M2 does), and revolvers are in the Fallout world so it stands to reason some random gun nut in the days before the war stuck a .50 cal magnum round in one. The only things I can't really rationalize, lore-wise, in my loadout would be the M16 and the M82, but ya know what? I don't care, they're nice guns. I can't wait for my chance to whip 'em out in New Vegas. Also, for anyone curious as to whether or not a given weapon is lore-friendly, just answer this: Was it invented pre-WW2? If it was, it's lore friendly, as the Fallout timeline did not diverge until just after WW2. Tommy guns, Colt 1911's, BARs, Winchester lever-action rifles, they're all lore-friendly. TestECull 16:09, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really. There's no reason for them to still be widely used after nearly 120 years of development of military weapons. They would not be plentiful in the same way Wild West-era weapons aren't common nowadays - they'd simply be obsolete. Also, you might not care about lore integrity, but we certainly do. Your opinion ain't fact. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 17:59, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * We're talking about a game where the year 2077 features vacuum tube technology and monochrome TV sets. I don't think some outdated weapons are gonna ruin the game... --GaussRifle 06:43, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * "Your opinion ain't fact." So long as you are aware yours isn't either. Still; real world weps should stay away from FO I agree. I like the campy feel of the makeshift wasteland weaponsAzzaman 13:15, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Two options. One: Quote where I said my opinion is anything else but an opinion. Two: Shut up. TestECull 02:07, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

You mean this and this didn't start the whole thing? It seems like there have always been "Modern" weapons in Fallout. Adding the Military Assault Rifle doesn't seem to be much of a stretch, especially considering 90% of it is plastic and, as we all know, plastic lasts forever. --MadDawg2552 20:17, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wrong. The only real-life weapon in Fo1 was the Desert Eagle .44. It's Fo2 that started this crap for some unknown reason. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 15:23, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not wrong. In every Fallout game there is a "Modern" weapon. You even said so yourself (Desert Eagle .44). I don't see any problem with Fallout: New Vegas adding another one. The only problem I would have with it is if every enemy was carrying one. I'm pretty sure that by the time the war with China started, the Military Assault Rifle was no longer in use, as the R91 Assault Rifle was the weapon of choice for the U.S. Military. If you count Fallout Tactics as part of the series, a variant of the Military Assault Rifle already appeared: M16A1. --MadDawg2552 17:45, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * See also the Mauser, also from Fallout 1. Idhan 19:55, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

1. I think the MAR was probably just coming into use instead of being no longer in use. 2. As much as I love MW2 and the weapons so many people seem so hell bent on bringing into this game, its just unnecessary. If the devs were to try to put in every weapon I've heard suggested, they wouldn't have time for anything else. The time and effort spent designing and implementing all those weapons into the game could be put to much better use in other areas. It would be a waste of disc space as well. Would you like 10 billion guns that all do basically the same thing or more varied, well thought out quests? Knight Captain Ski (talk) 22:56, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

A gun is a gun, I don't care if it shoots lumps of crap. As long as it kills shit I'm happy.--Mastererium 07:04, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

SergeantDornan: Why is it considered unrealistic for the Fallout games to have modern day guns? Remember, the bombs dropped in the year 2077--that is 77 years from our own modern day! While the cultural advancement of humans remained that of the 50s/60s era, TECHNOLOGY advanced rapidly. Therefor it is perfectly possible and probable that they would have made weapons such as the AMR and gatling guns, and even the futuristic energy weapons. Think about it. Now, as for their prevalance in the wasteland, there are tons of military bases that scavengers could find, and hell, the gunrunners make their own weapons. So these guns would get around, and even as a Fallout fan from the origional series, I see nothing wrong with modern day weapons being a part of these games; it doesn't go against the storyline; in fact, it supports it.

This isn't a continuation of SergeantDornan's post, above: anyway, I'm fairly neutral on the question of whether conventional small arms should be real-world or invented. What bugs me more are invented arms that don't appear, at first glance, to make sense, but which aren't given any justification either. With the disclaimer that I'm not a real-world gun nut, I think .223 Rem/5.56x45mm NATO weapons are the worst offenders in this in Fallout, although they're hardly the only ones. In Fallout, we find .223 chambered pistols (yes, they say it was a modified rifle; that still doesn't make it make sense) and sniper rifles, but no basic .223 assault rifles, even though assault rifles are basically the reason .223 was invented. Meanwhile, the 7.62mm is only used for the FN FAL and the M60, even though it makes more sense than .223 for a sniper rifle.

I mean, if you want to say that NATO picked the 5mm round as a standard in Fallout world rather than 5.56mm, then fine. Make the 5mm round a consistent intermediate cartridge that acts as a substitute for 5.56mm (which should then probably be rare to nonexistent). Just don't cram .223 into pistols and sniper rifles, but not have it in any assault rifles. (To its credit, I guess FO3 used 5.56mm as an assault rifle round.)

In short: put an M4 carbine in Fallout? Sure. I don't care. Create a fictitious assault rifle called the R91, chambered in 5.56mm, and say that it was the US's service rifle from the year 2003 (in the Fallout universe) until the switch to plasma rifles as standard in 2055 (or whenever)? Sure. Create a pistol that uses rifle cartridges, and claim that it has a super-advanced inertial dampening system based on physics-bending pre-war tech? Dubious, but okay. Claim that someone made an effective pistol with rifle cartridges by cutting the barrel off and doing some cosmetic surgery to make it look like the blade runner gun? I'm opposed. I think a Blade Runner homage is cool, but why not make it a 10mm gun or something?Idhan 18:49, May 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * Personally I'd think it be a bit more satisfying to have guns I actually own in the game when I play but as either maybe an easter egg or a mod if I ever start playing on PC mostly. But I'm not sure how well they'd fit in (Walther PPK, Mossberg 500 cruiser, etc.) Great Mara 19:27, May 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * Because it sort of ruins the whole "1950s stasis"/"World of Tomorrow" thing when the guns all look like they've been ripped from the latest "Call of Duty" game... --GaussRifle 21:49, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not quite sure what your point is (perhaps because you don't have an independent clause in your response). There are four "eras" of weaponry that we're talking about here. 1) Weapons that were developed before or around the same time as Louis Armstrong's cover of "A Kiss to Build a Dream On," such as the Mauser C96 (from 1896), the AK-47 (from 1947), etc. 2) Weapons that are still conventional firearms, but developed after the divergence, 3) Futuristic sci-fi weapons like laser rifles, Gauss pistols, etc., and 4) post-apocalyptic weapons, made after the great war, which range from simple spears of Arroyo's tribals to Vic's musket-like pipe rifle to the NCR's semi-automatic service rifles to the Enclave's latest weaponry, which is often even more advanced than the latest pre-war stuff (although they've probably only made the amount of progress in 200 years that pre-war science and engineering was making in about 12 years).


 * Just talking about the "whole '1950s stasis'/'World of Tomorrow' thing" only really addresses weapons in categories 1) and 3). It doesn't deal with category 2) or 4). I guess you could say that category 2) shouldn't actually be around -- you could make the case that in this alternate world, the US military just switched straight from using the M1 Garand or M14 to using a plasma rifle as standard. That's not the approach Fallout takes, though, nor has it ever taken it. From Fallout, it's been established that both fictional (Colt 6520, aka 10mm pistol) and real (Desert Eagle) conventional firearms from later than the 1950s existed. As I said, I'm fine with either approach, so long as the weapons make sense.


 * Idhan 05:31, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

It occurs to me that I may be misunderstanding what people are trying to say here. I assumed, initially, that this was about the feeling that weapons developed after the divergence in the real world, like the M16 or Desert Eagle, don't belong in Fallout. However, two of the links in this thread which seem to be used as examples of potentially objectionable "modern" weapons are the Type 93 Chinese Assault Rifle and the Assault Carbine, neither of which are real world weapons.

Furthermore, TestECull writes "AK47/M16/M2 Browning/S&W500/M82 shoot a few holes into the Fallout lore," -- although the M2 was probably from significantly before the divergence (although pinning down exactly when it took place is difficult), and the AK47 was perhaps around the time of the divergence (earlier than Louis Armstrong's cover of "A Kiss to Build a Dream On," certainly).

What exactly are people trying to say here? It seems like, in addition to real-world weapons developed after the divergence, both fictional weapons and real-world weapons developed before the divergence can be considered objectionable. What is acceptable? I'm pretty sure energy weapons and power fists are okay, but beyond that I don't know. Idhan 17:10, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

The M16 and M4 rifles were developed in the 1950's which is not that far from the time line divergence, in fact the inventor of those rifles was already working in machine shops in the 1940's. Just cause the real world weapon came 15 years after the time line shift does not mean it was never made at all.

wait wait wait, why the fuss over modern weapons if there is power armor, i don't think the 50' were all about power armor, and if they can get away with having combat armor and vtol birds ( which are all pretty damn modern) i think they can get away with the guns they have

=
=========== i like the modern weapons but a 6.20mm fanticy gun would be cooler

Idhan, the Assault Carbine is a real world weapon. There was a thread in the Fallout Wiki Forum discussion section called In-Game Weapons and Real World References, the author of that thread provided a link to the Bethesda forums in which J.E. Sawyer indicates which real-world weapon the in-game weapon was based off of, loosely. The Assault Carbine was based loosely off of the real-world CAR-15 Commando.--Ryker6107:34, September 5, 2011 (UTC)~12:19am 9/5/2011


 * It's based loosely off of the real-world CAR-15 Commando? Fine, but it's also chambered in a fictitious caliber (5mm, which, incidentally, assault rifles have used since the original Fallout) and no one claims it was developed by ArmaLite, was ever called the CAR-15, or any of the real proprietary aspects of the CAR-15. In short, it has a similar look, and is an assault rifle, and a lot of assault rifles are fairly similar looking to begin with. An FN SCAR-L doesn't look as much like an FNV Assault Carbine as an AR-15, but it looks kinda similar too:. convergent evolution. The carrying handle and stock are pretty destinctive, but the Assault Carbine's furniture around the barrel looks different from the AR-15 too.


 * Idhan 23:00, September 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * P.S. The Hunting Shotgun looks a lot like the Mossberg 500 field/deer combo to me. Does it just get a pass because, hey, J. E. Sawyer never posted about it on the Bethesda forums? (Assuming he didn't) Or is the hunting shotgun objectionable too? Idhan 00:42, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

Does it not occur to anybody that research was much different than in the real world? As mentioned earlier They have monochrome TV's and have yet to make micro-technology. The thing is, splitting up the research between conventional guns and newer energy weapons are bound to have some exceptions. Some modern weapons will be made, some would not. Meanwhile, Laser Rifles and Tesla Cannons are going to be created. That's just how things would work. Cc99910 22:36, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

As for making modern weapons, look up "Chechnya Firecrackers". Fully modern weapons made in a basement in (Russian) Georgia. If a revolutionary can make one in his basement, the NCR can make it in a factory. --NCRandproud123 23:36, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

I think people are looking at this too much in terms of black and white, in agreement with Idhan. It really does depend on the weapon in question. Here's my opinion:

- The Automatic Rifle (from DM), Mauser Pistol, .45 Pistol and all other weapons that were developed before or imminently after Divergence should stay. For example, the Chinese Assault Rifle is based off a Chinese copy of the original AK47, which was developed in the '40s after WWII. As this rifle and its descendants have remained in use for nearly 50 years in our world, we have reason to believe that it would stay even longer, as technological advances were made more in the direction of things like Energy weapons, Robots and Power Armour. - Weapons developed after Divergence that are not also weapons, such as any Energy Weapons, R91 Rifle, DKS range of Rifles and Fat Man, should stay. These have been purely invented by the game developers/designers so they are unshakably canon.

- Weapons that bear a resemblance to modern-day weapons, even if they are not exact replicas should be treated with caution. For example, the Assault Carbine from New Vegas is based off the CAR-15, which was developed around the time of the Vietnam War, should be acceptable as it would have been developed only a few years after the point of Divergence. Note: it is not specified when this weapon was developed. - However, weapons like the Hunting Shotty from New Vegas, based off a recent real-life Mossberg weapon, probably should not be in the games.

- Weapons that were developed after the Great War or improvised weapons should be considered proper canon.

When I have some time, I'll go through all the weapons ever featured in canon Fallout games and explain them. Q-35 14:12, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

My main beef with 'modern' weapons is that they're made out of composite plastics. I don't know about you, but in the Fallout universe oil doesn't exist in amounts that make exploring viable weapon designs including composite polymers very practical as they would be very expensive to develop and insane to mass produce.

I would be fine if it was rare and scarce, but it exists in the hands of pretty much every Legionaire at the second battle of Hoover Dam.

Energy weapons aren't insane, weapons still have to be made, and in a universe that boasts nuclear energy options at the man-portable level it would be insane not to make those weapons.

Power armor is in development today and is inhibited by its power source, which is an internal combustion engine that has to follow the unlawful use of it indoors law, so creating man-portable nuclear power is an instant solution and part of the Fallout universe.

The use of plastics to make water bottles and combat armor isn't parallel to today's counterparts, so I expect weapons to follow the same route and yet they don't.--98.243.106.164 21:53, November 4, 2011 (UTC)