Forum:Videos

I need input from fellow editors and admins as to how to proceed with videos in articles. In my opinion, videos should be limited to unique items that need to be obtained a certain way. In no manner should quests have videos because quests have many different outcomes. Videos would only give the viewer one outcome. Also when a low quality video is replaced with one of high quality, it gets reverted by the poster of the video that was replaced. I then revert it back to keep the clear and higher quality video intact. When it comes to videos such as Perforator, there is a 10 minute video. Only 30 seconds, YES 30 SECONDS of it concerns acquiring the rifle. As the video states clearly, "party people" its 9 minutes and 30 seconds of bs that included running around with the gun etc. I'm happy you can create a video and great congrats. But not everyone's video belongs in an article and not every unique item needs a video. Really, do we need a video to show dialog? Anyways, what do you guys think?--Kingclyde 23:48, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As you said, remove useless self-promotion drivel and leave only what actually adds to the article. A nice example is the vid in the Satcom Missile Launcher, which is short, amusing and illustrates the topic at hand. Use the "Protect" function liberally, if any user engages in edit wars. Add a short, coherent mention of the new rule to Wiki regulations and guidelines. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 05:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In general, I think the same rules applying to all content also apply here: Avoid repetition, the video needs to be relevant to the article subject and objective. Multiple videos for the same thing (e.g. obtaining a certain gun) are not needed. Videos which for instance just show somebody running around and killing stuff with a gun are not needed either; we don't allow people to add their personal little stories to articles, why would we allow it in video form?


 * Another question would be whether videos in general should rather be added to seperate video articles (e.g. we'd have one for FO3 quests, obtaining FO3 weapons etc) since quite a few people seem not to be happy about the added loading times and sometimes sluggy browser behaviour videos bring. -- Porter21 (talk) 13:26, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Just a small remark on Mikael's "protect" comment: don't forget to make these protections time-limited though, there's no need to protect pages to infinity just because of a little editing war. -- Porter21 (talk) 13:30, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I see the point about my Perforator video, and most of my unique weapons videos. I have a habit to first show how to obtain the weapon (yes yes, with Perforator, and other weapons from Everett, its pretty purposeless) and then give a show for it. This is mostly because thousands of my fans find this amusing and entertaining, and I cant disagree. It is, after all, why I am so popular these days. I am an entertainer above all, not just some anonymous, plain and lame video maker. It makes me sad that most admins and decision makers finds "too" entertaining content redundant and unwanted. And because of what and who I am, its actually pretty lame, plain and boring. Obviously I see the point about the page being too "heavy" for users with low bandwidth and I agree. Only one video on one page is enough. For example quest videos can be in a specific "Quest Videos" page, which includes only videos. I have received hundreds of requests to make a video that is not here yet, on this wiki. Thousands of my fans are expecting to find my videos on this wiki and it makes me sad when I notice, that the video they demand is simply removed from the page. I have it and I have embedded it, but someone has either replaced it with horrific and terrible video or simply removed it. Since I am not an admin, I cant really make the decision about it, but I have replaced many videos on my own. I understand that my way of doing this annoys some people (Im sorry Kingclyde) and I will stop doing so until we have an official policy for videos. I will be waiting for your decision on the matter at hand. CryonBrion (Talk) 16:54, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "Thousands of my fans" is pretty arrogant. Personally, I'm totally against embedding videos, unless it's the only way to show something (like introductory sequences). Instead, I'd prefer to see links to youtube videos, which will be much less bandwidth heavy. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 17:42, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I am not attacking you personally (which it seems you are implying that I am doing), I simply do not see why we need video where they are not needed. If "thousands" of "your" fans are asking for them, why not make a video page specifically for your fans. Or simply refer them to youtube. What this is is a wiki and not an extension of youtube. I have reverted an edit or two because the videos that replaced yours were clearer, more concise and of better overall quality. I don't change videos because of a certain author made them. It's about quality and necessity. I feel videos that are redundant, are too long or are just superfluous are not needed. If indeed your fans are demanding the videos by the hundreds, how come we never hear about this. It's just unneeded that's all I'm saying. So here is my final thoughts: 1)this is a wiki and not youtube 2)any videos should be clear and concise 3)any good "entertainer" knows his/her limits. And yes, I agree with Tagaziel, "thousands of fans" and "I am so popular" and "hundreds of request for my videos" do make you sound very arrogant.--Kingclyde 17:57, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. I understand. And about "thousands of my fans": I have 14000 subscribers at the moment, gaining about thousand subs more in one month. I get around 80-120 personal messages and 800-1500 comments in one days. My Fallout 3 videos are the most watched Fallout videos in the web. Many other sites uses them as embedded example videos. You can check the facts from my Youtube channel if you think that this is not true. Here → Orcidea
 * And Kingclyde, I wasnt talking about your actions. I find your reasoning correct and I have nothing against you. I was talking about some random kids who replaces videos with their poorly done material. Im sorry if I have ever offended you in any way, that was not my intention.
 * After all, Im not trying to praise myself to you, I feel no real need for that. And I find talking about facts hardly arrogant. What Im trying to do, is to bring these things I encounter to your attetion and since this wiki is the most popular Fallout site in the world, which is obvious, and Im the most followed and watched Fallout 3 video director in the world, I would like to work together. Now please, hold your indignation. This is merely a fact, nothing more, nothing less. Im known among my fans as very subtle and modest and this is why I feel bad that I have given you wrong, arrogant picture of myself. I see that some admins and users are strongly against me at this point and I find it very sad. My intentions and actions within this wiki have always been benevolent. And as I told Porter21 already, I do not profit at all from any of my videos, views or my subscribers, since Youtubes sponsorship and partnership services are not available here in Finland. So I dont benefit from any of this in practice. I enjoy greatly when I can help people with their problems in the game. And I get increasingly questions and help requests about computers, another thing close to my heart. I want to help people and I like it. Since I get nothing from my videos and other actions here in the web, can you really think that Im not doing it because of pure desire to help? All this makes me very sad, since obviously many of you guys/girls havent even tried to find out who I am and what I really do. All you know about me is my few actions and edits in here, and mostly I have made those in a hurry and after tiresome video editing session. [[Image:Youtube1smaller.jpeg]] CryonBrion (Talk) 06:16, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't think CryonBrion is trying to promote himself, I do believe he's trying to help and contribute (which is what wikis are about). Let's all cut out the personal stuff and concentrate on the matter at hand please.

CryonBrion, I understand your point of view but you also have to understand ours. For a wiki to work, we have to set some rules on what should be included in articles and what shouldn't. For the quality of articles, it is generally detrimental if you allow people to write their little stories. It turns articles from a useful resource into a cluttered mess of personal anecdotes which is not helpful to anyone.

Imagine you'd look at one of the weapon articles and instead of finding "This weapon can be found at location XYZ" you'd find "this one day I was running around and killing Mirelurks, LOL that was fun, anyway, there were also some raiders and I blew their heads right off, serves them right for killing Charon a few weeks back even though he's pretty ugly. Then I went on and found this KEWL weapon in a cave where some gay Mirelurk King was sitting on it". I think you'll agree that while whoever wrote the latter probably found it perfectly entertaining, it detracts from the point and most readers would not be interested in it; a lot would probably rather be pretty annoyed since they're really only interested in finding out where they can get that weapon. As a consequence, we do not allow that kind of subjective story-telling; the wiki would be of pretty poor quality if we did.

Now you're probably wondering what the hell that has to do with your videos :) Thing is, we can hardly tell people not to add their little personal stories to articles and then allow it in video form, we'd rightly be called hypocrites. This is not about the quality of your videos or whether they're entertaining but purely about principle. I understand why you add these sections to your videos but I hope you also understand our point of view.

Regarding Mikael's comment about embedding videos in general, I agree somewhat. Somehow embedded videos make my browser behave sluggish when scrolling over them (and I have by no means a low-end PC) and they take a lot of space. We could always have them on seperate, dedicated pages though which are linked from the relevant article. This way people could better choose whether they want to look at them or not. -- Porter21 (talk) 07:14, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you =) I do understand all this. No problem at all. The thing is, when I started editing this wiki almost year ago (when I started making videos), I made a link on the page to my video. After awhile Ash contacted me and taught me how to embed my videos. I thought that it was nice to have the video on the page itself and so did Ash. She was actually pretty excited about the whole idea. From that point started the whole idea of embedding those videos in here, which I have been doing ever since (and others as well). The idea was never discussed any further, and I got my back cover by Ash. Well, we all know what happened with her (that was very sad incident) and I was left without any actual official support for my cause. I tried to keep up the spirit about embedding videos as I thought how Ash wanted it to be. And now, during last months, the issue has been raised to our attention, finally I might add. First I tried to keep up the same spirit, then I remembered that I dont actually have anyone to back me up anymore. I even behaved as an arrogant bastard toward some people, and I feel terrible about it. That is not who I really am. And now that this discussion is open, Im only trying to defend my cause and above all, Im trying to help. If admins here decide that no more embedding videos is allowed, I understand. So maybe you will then make a page for certain videos or maybe you want to use only links for those videos on the page to direct people elsewhere. What ever the decision will be, I will live with it. Im just tired of fighting about this issue, since Im not an admin and I feel that my words have little impact. I will focus on my videos from now on and leave the matter for those who has power to decide anything about it. I hope I havent left bad taste and rotten thoughts behind me here on the wiki. [[Image:Youtube1smaller.jpeg]] CryonBrion (Talk) 07:53, 14 August 2009 (UTC)