Talk:Love and Hate

Love and Hate is a reference to the film the Night of the Hunter

I'm pretty sure this is a reference to Cape Fear remake. "Love" and "Hate" were tattooed on Max Cady's (Robert De Nero) knuckles on the left and right hands respectively.
 * Since the tattoos appear in many films and remakes, we can't be sure it's a reference to any one work in particular unless we get some corroborative evidence. Until then, let's leave it out of the article entirely.--Gothemasticator 20:51, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree with the first poster here - Robert Mitchum's character in Night of the Hunter (1955) had "Love" and "Hate" tattooed onto his knuckles. Mitchum also played the villain in the original version of Cape Fear, and De Niro played his role in the remake, so the Cape Fear thing is actually a reference to Night of the Hunter, too. Night of the Hunter was the first to use this trope, as far as I'm aware, so...this weapon is a reference to that. Planeforger 10:35, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. There are too many possibilities. TJbrena 16:09, October 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Stop adding information about movies, these are prison tattoos. Anything in a movie, television show, etc comes from that singular point of reference. Mictlantecuhtli 19:32, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Regardless, it was that movie that popularized the image. Period. NukaNukaYay 10:02, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

Split
This needs to be split into two separate articles. -- 16:13, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

They're the same weapon. They're a pair of Brass Knuckles. Tezzla Cannon 16:14, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

The wording of the article implies that they're two distinct items. Could you reword it? -- 16:49, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

Night of the Hunter came out in the 50s and is probably the first and certainly the most culturally notable of the films to have employed the "Love and Hate," knuckle tattoos.--OvaltinePatrol 19:12, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * However it does not change the fact is was part of prison culture far before Hollywood even existed. Prison tattoos, brands, maiming, etc have been around for thousands of years as a way to mark convicts, slaves, you name it. Mictlantecuhtli 19:17, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

Damage
The damage is wrong also, people have taken to posting the damage and dps of the item when their character finds them. Not the base damage or dps, or even the maximum damage/dps. Mictlantecuhtli 13:26, October 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * K I fixed the damage and DPS values. Surprisingly, it was lower than what was in the article, but the DPS was significantly higher than what was listed. I also checked the other values for accuracy.
 * Ok, I use Chance's knife quite a bit (even with non melee characters because it's that powerful) but haven't done anything to check it's base damage, etc just posted the damage for it with 10 strength and 40 melee at lvl 1. Mictlantecuhtli 14:28, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Reference to name
The name comes from the 1989 Spike Lee movie of Do the Right Thing. The character Radio Raheem (played by Bill Nunn) has a set of brass knuckles with Love and Hate on them. Perform a Google Image search for "do the right thing, love and hate" (without the quotes) to see them. An excerpt taken from IMDB of Radio Raheem describing Love and Hate: "Let me tell you the story of Right Hand, Left Hand. It's a tale of good and evil. Hate: it was with this hand that Cane iced his brother. Love: these five fingers, they go straight to the soul of man. The right hand: the hand of love. The story of life is this: static. One hand is always fighting the other hand, and the left hand is kicking much ass. I mean, it looks like the right hand, Love, is finished. But hold on, stop the presses, the right hand is coming back. Yeah, he got the left hand on the ropes, now, that's right. Ooh, it's a devastating right and Hate is hurt, he's down. Left-Hand Hate KOed by Love."

I second it. I want some brothers on the wall! (or else I`ll boycott this page). So get to editing it, now! And yes, watch the movie and pay that a look - Radio Raheem`s brass knuckles look exactly the same as the game model. So quit that "oh the reference is vague, the movies are full of love & hate shit" approach and start representing the truth, Ruth.
 * If it's added, it will be removed. Mictlantecuhtli 13:20, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but the "love and hate" tattooed on knuckles goes way back. the idea is so you can give someone both sides of the argument. Why are people so lame they think nothing existed before it appears in a movie?

I would agree with you if it was something that actually had to do with tattoos or gloves on a raider's set of armor. But it isn't either of those things. It is brass knuckles. The creators of all of the Fallout games like to reference either literature or movies. And thanks for calling me lame. It really builds your case. "There are no new ideas. There are only new ways of making them felt." -  --  Audre Lorde

It seems really obvious to me (and anyone else who's ever seen Do The Right Thing) that these brass knuckles are precisely a reference to that film. Almost every article on here spells out various film references, but not this one. What gives? Transmothra 06:02, January 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Have to agree with Transmother. The trope of "Love and Hate" on someone's knuckles may be a very old one, but the specific idea of love and hate brass knuckles appears to have been popularized by Radio Raheem in "Do the Right Thing"... unless anyone can produce a reference to the contrary. Several entries in the wiki include multiple possible origins of pop culture references. Wonder why this ones so contentious... (And yes, that was a rhetorical question.)-ElijahBenedict


 * I would agree that it's obvious that the brass knuckles (actually spiked knuckles) look like the ones in Spike Lee's movie, with spikes added. I'd even argue that the pun in duplicating spiked knuckles from a Spike Lee movie reinforces the likelihood of it being a reference to Do the Right Thing, where the knuckles have no spikes. But an important thing to keep in mind is that the scene where Radio Raheem explains the story of life as a conflict between the left and right hand is itself a reference to a nearly identical scene in Night of the Hunter. Even much of the dialogue is the same. So while Love and Hate in FNV most likely refers to the Spike Lee movie, the Spike Lee movie is actually referencing the earlier movie. Tharnhelm 21:22, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

Soooo, I guess it would be too complicated to explain all the prison tattoo/Night of the Hunter/Do the Right Thing connections all on the page?? Would that just be too informative? --Vaurien

One would think that the designers intended to reference the film from 1955 since they tend to reference material from that time period. However, it's definitely worth mentioning the "LOVE" and "HATE" brass knuckles from Do the Right Thing since that appears to be the only well-known situation where those words were applied to brass knuckles.

Tip
This page is locked, but I'd like to add the following tip:

Because of its high rate of attack, this weapon has a similar DPS to some of the most powerful unarmed weapons in the game. However, if you use it against armored foes, the enemy's DT is subtracted from every strike, so instead of subtracting the enemy's DT from your damage once every second of combat, it's subtracted several times every second. To counter this, you could get the 'Piercing Strike' perk, and also, when combined with 'Paralyzing Palm' or 'Super Slam' the higher rate of fire makes it more likely to set off those beneficial combat effects, turning this into one of the most devistating unarmed weapons in the game.

Since Fallout 3 used DR instead of DT, the difference in damage against armored foes may be a bit confusing or surprising to veteran players of Fallout 3.

Daniel Benoy 13:54, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

These seem way overpowered to me. Strength 5 agility 6 unarmed 25 and I am mincing almost everything within a few hits. Helps to have my companion distract enemies, but they seem to do more damage than most guns, and I have guns 63.

Rocky Horror Picture Show
Please don't tell me I'm the only one who immediately thought of Rocky Horror Picture Show when I saw this weapon. --124.180.138.66 14:26, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I thought of that as well.--74.103.174.200 02:57, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

Plural
Should it be "Love and Hate is..." or "Love and Hate are..."? Hal10k(Leonard Bernstein!) 07:11, December 19, 2010 (UTC)

What many of you are failing to realize is that the whole *reason* the Love and Hate knuckles are considered a common prison tattoo is because they were in fact inspired by Reverend Harry Powell. God you make all us gamers look ignorant with this tripe.
 * Don't change it again, the admins have already spoken on this matter. Mictlantecuhtli 09:57, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

You guys are ridiculous, power tripping aholes. I'll change it all I want, until you fucking ban me. NukaNukaYay 09:58, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

I'm guessing that guy got banned then... --Wiseman of the Wastes 22:09, July 7, 2011 (UTC)