Talk:Advanced Power Armor Mk II

Fallout 3's version
Why is FO3's "Advanced Power Armor Mk II" worse than a T-51b? It makes no sense. --Macros 00:56, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Maybe because the T-51b is more rare? Or maybe the T-51b in DC is more advanced than the ones in California? *Shrugs* Beth should have given an explanation, me thinks. --Jargner 04:23, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I always kind of assumed it was an Easter Egg, heh. Especially since the 'main' Brotherhood had T-51b's, but somehow these guys don't.


 * Actually the dialogue in the Citadel mentions that the Capital Wasteland BoS is cut off from the main BoS back west because of Lyons' decision to change their mission. Maybe that has something to do with their inferior tech where armor is concerned (i.e. they had to rely on lesser armor due to lack of resupply). As for the Enclave, if we're going to try to explain it (rather than just say that Bethesda mangled the story), I'd say that the article has a pretty good explanation.Fiddlesoup 17:44, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey, consider this: The reason for the similarity in appearance between Adv. Power Armor MKs 1 and 2, is the same as why a shotgun looked the same as the Red Ryder BB gun. Limited spriteset. Now, as for the stat discrepancy, that's beyond me, but just maybe the appearance in Fallout 2 would have looked like the FO3 Enclave armor.

Massive renaming
What's with the massive renaming of the entries linking to this? The in-game name of the armor is Enclave Power Armor. Having that link to this ought to be enough. Having 'Advanced Power Armor Mk II' on other lists and areas will only serve to confuse newbies looking for 'Enclave Power Armor' - which is the in-game inventory list name. --76.64.54.60 19:46, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Is FO3 "Enclave Power Armor" Really "Advanced Power Armor Mk II"?
I appologize if this is a silly question. The first time I found this wiki and looked up Enclave Power Armor I was directed to this page. However, I wish to know where the connection is made between the two. For example, they have different names. Now, I know this could just be Beth's lack of attention to fluff or whatever, but they also look very different. For example, I see the similarity in the eye lenses, but the FO2 armor has a long but flat snout whereas the FO3 armor has a short, extended snout. The FO3 helmet also has horns whereas the FO2 one does not. The shoulders and chestplates are also very different. Hence the question, how do we know that the two names refer to the same suit? The alternative is that "Enclave Power Armor" is actually a new type of armor and not the same as "Advanced Power Armor Mk II". FO3's Enclave armor seems to have more in common with the Tesla armor, especially since they use the same helmet. Perhaps a Dev said something about them being the same suit, but I'm curious to hear the explanation. Servius 20:32, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In Fallout 3, it is called "Advanced Power Armor Mark II" within the game itself. One guess is that the original Advanced Power Armor still canonically looks the way it did in Fallout 2, but they retconned the Mark II model to look different. Ausir 21:03, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think Servius is asking if it's ever mentioned in Fallout 3 that the Enclave Power Armor is in fact Advanced Power Armor Mark II. We kind of assume it is, as that's what the Enclave had before, but is there any in-game reference? --DarkJeff 21:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. Squire Maxson says:
 * Judging from those records, I'd say their soldiers are outfitted in Advanced Power Armor Mark II. It's... pretty strong. Better than our Power Armor.
 * Casdin says:
 * Well I'll be damned. The Advanced Power Armor Mark II. This is superb. Absolutely superb.'

Ausir 21:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * What makes you think that Maxson and Casdin are in any way a reliable source for this sort of information. In Fallout 2, it seems unlikely that many Brotherhood soldiers have survived close-range encounters with the Enclave (the few brotherhood members the Chosen One can speak with give the impression that encounters between the Enclave and the Brotherhood tend to end badly for the Brotherhood, which is very much wanting for manpower already), so even if Casdin has encountered Advanced Power Armor before, it was likely at a distance, and it was thirty years prior. Either his information or his recollection (or both) could easily be incorrect. Furthermore, if this is the same armor, how do you explain it's different appearance and inferiority to T-51b? The Eastern Brotherhood being wrong seems a much more plausible and likely explanation to me. ComradeJim270 01:27, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The BoS and the Enclave never fought face-to-face during Fo2. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 07:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And the power armor stats in FO3 are not an indication of anything, given how screwed up they are. Ausir 08:10, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't played Fallout 2 in some time, so maybe the Brotherhood never engaged in combat with the Enclave, but that would only support my theory, as it would mean the Brotherhood as a whole has next to no experience with Enclave armor, and therefore is not a reliable source of information on it.ComradeJim270 22:11, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * personally i belive that this armor was stolen from the midwestern BOS in an attempt for the Enclave to gain more technology (as the midwestern BOS armor is stronger than T-4x) thats just my opinion Onikage01 13:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

I would believe that is possible since the Enclave traveled through America to reach Raven Rock. They may have come across some MidWestern Brotherhood, and took the design and blended it into their armor. They probally had to use Midwestern Brotherhood armor to repair and modify their armor during the trip. Leading to the distinct difference.PitifulKnight 21:19, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * all possible Onikage01 21:44, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If really contrived 3:02, 12 April2009 (UTC)
 * It also fails to take into account that Midwestern Brotherhood armor can't even exist unless you ignore canon, which tells us that the Enclave is the only organization capable of building power armor. So this theory, while it would explain the differences between FO2 and FO3 Enclave armor, has quite a serious hole in it. It's clever, though, in how it explains both the cosmetic differences and the armor's inferiority to FO2 designs.ComradeJim270 22:11, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Given how the power armor stats in FO3 are screwed up overall (e.g. the T-51b not increasing the wearer's strength), I wouldn't use them as proof of anything. Ausir 22:23, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

The Fallout 2 version looks far better in my opinion. I wish Bethesda hadn't changed it. If it looked like the fallout 2 version then i would probably use it instead of the T-51b armour, even though its nowhere near as good in this game. But as it is now i just don't like it.. The body armour part is ok, but the helmet just doesn't look right at all.--Greig91 17:51, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The Enclave Power armor in Fallout 3 is different to the Enclave Power Armor in Fallout 2, OPEN YOUR EYES ! Itachou 13:18, 02 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's stated to be the Advanced Power Armor Mk II in-game. Unless proven otherwise, I'll consider it to be just a visual retcon, of which there are already many in Fallout 3. And the Mk II even probably should look different from the regular Advanced Power Armor, given that it was made from different materials. Ausir 13:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

0_0 Very well, We can do the same for weapons of Fallout 3, then, is the same weapon of Fallout 1/2 but with a different design, I will immediately merge all the pages of weapons Itachou 13:24, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Difference is, none of the different-looking weapons was explicitly identified in-game as the same model as the original, but simply use very generic names like "combat shotgun" etc. Also, I remember Todd Howard saying in a pre-release interview that the Enclave is back with the APA Mk II from Falllout 2. Can't find the interview now, though. If they actually wanted to make it a different model, they'd call it a Mk III or something like that. Ausir 13:28, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

So, can you explain to me why unless protects to the T51b, while in Fallout 1/2, it is more powerful to the T51b Itachou 13:37, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * So can you explain to me why the T-51b increases my strength in Fallout 1/2, while it doesn't in Fallout 3? The power armor stats are entirely screwed up in FO3, so I wouldn't use them as proof of anything. The devs wanted to make the T-51b in FO3 special and unique, so they didn't bother making it inferior to Enclave PA, as lore would dictate. I wouldn't use these stats as proof of anything. Ausir 13:46, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

It's not much, but that the T51b is more powerful than the Advanced Power Armor Mk II of Fallout 2 is a bit anything. I'm not agree, the 2 are not such That's his is the Advanced Power Armor Mk II version Fallout 3, Open your mind !

it's a bit easy to change everything like his happen overnight, is very anything, but The Vault is not really a serious source now, what a pity... Itachou 14:03, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I know that the Advanced Power Armor Mk II should look like it did in FO2, but Bethesda did retcon its appearance in Fallout 3, and it's silly to pretend they didn't. Don't blame the Vault for representing it as Bethesda did in FO3. You can always assume that the regular Advanced Power Armor still looks like in the above picture, while only the Mk II was changed. Ausir 14:11, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Itachou, the name it is " between quote " the same but such is not the same armor (For me, the Advanced Power Armor Mk II it is the best armor in the world of Fallout in terms of protection) I think we should create 2 page to make a difference, with a link to the page that leads to another armor with the name " Western Advanced Power Armor Mk II " for Fallout 2 and " Eastern Advanced Power Armor Mk II " for Fallout 3 (like what is done with the Power Armor from Fallout Tactics) Light-Revan 14:37, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thing is, here the devs themselves indicated that this is supposed to be a retcon of the original APA Mk2. This is how the APA Mk2 always looked like in Bethesda's version of the canon, even if it was represented as identical to the APA in FO2. I'm not too fond of it, but this is how it is. Lore-wise, it is still superior to the BoS PA, even if it's not reflected in the stats (just like I wouldn't consider the ridiculous damage dealt by tribals in Point Lookout as canon part of the lore). In case of Tactics, there was never any indication that it was supposed to be the same model. Ausir 14:57, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not only identified as APA Mk II in-game, but Todd Howard also identifies it as the APA Mk II from Fallout 2 in this video: http://pc.ign.com/articles/893/893437p1.html. They intentionally retconned the appearance, whether we like it or not, it's not meant to be a separate model lore-wise. Ausir 15:08, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

It is a error of Todd Howard. Let's be serious please. I think my solution is good and still canon, everybody will find his account. If it isn't like, his can not be the same. Personally, I don't drop the case, I found this error is too big for it remains Light-Revan 15:18, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * At first I considered it just to be a mistake on Todd's part, but since the armor is actually identified in-game as APA2, I consider it a deliberate retcon, even though I don't agree with it. But it's part of Bethesda's canon now, all we can do is point out the inconsistency, just like in any other articles on topics where Bethesda diverges from canon established in previous games. Ausir 15:24, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok, you don't change your opinion, me too. I edit this pages later to create 2 separate. You put the old and I return my mine. I can't let this mistake, it is really too big for a Fallout Fan, sorry Light-Revan 15:18, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

You all are forgetting that on the way to Raven Rock, the Enclave might have found more tech and integrated it into their armor. Or perhaps they found schematics for power armor that allowed them to shuffle some of the components around to for ease of access with changing anything but the look. Either case could change just enough to make it diffrent but not necessitate a new tier of developmental recognition. JerichoRCDF 15:23, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

Somewhere I put forth another theory about the nature of this armor, and now I can't find it. I still think it's a good theory and I didn't ever get to discuss it in great detail. Todd Howard can claim it's the same armor, and if you buy that, that's fine, but while he can speak with authority on Fallout canon, I for one am not going to treat his words on the matter as infallible, especially if he's clearly expecting us to stuff what we saw in the Black Isle games down the memory hole. I can't accept that this is the same armor. I see new armor. It's inferior armor. But it's probably easier to manufacture, making it more appealing to a greatly weakened Enclave. It's still better than T-45 armor, which is the best armor they expect their opposition in the area to have. Their situation has changed and they've adapted to it. I still think this is the most sensible explanation. You are absolutely welcome to disagree and if you do, I have no problem discussing new ideas. ComradeJim270 02:44, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

...
I can't stop laughing at the Enclave armor in Fallout 2. It looks like a mechanical insect! Come on, don't tell me that no one else finds this hilarious? *dies laughing* FawkesGamer360 00:34, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Given that it's the original and actually looks like powered armour, not to mention, is appropriately menacing for the Enclave, I don't get your point. Other than you consitently trying to prove just how much of an idiot you are. That Furry Bastard 08:05, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, Mikael, you might be the idiot here. It does look like a fucking insect. Then again, you might need your eyes checked. Also, yïff in hell furry-boy.  λ T 20:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I was responding to him finding it hilarious, which it isn't, at least to most sane people who aren't Fo3 fanboys. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 21:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I am a sane non-fanboy, and it does look like an insect.  λ T 21:36, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Daedryon, Mikael was saying that the fact that FawkesGamer finds it hilarious was stupid, he wasn't denieing that it looked like an insect. Fat Man Spoon 21:39, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. And before you ask, D, FG360 is an idiot, just check his "contributions". http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 21:41, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Errr...if his contribs are stupid, why hasn't he been banned?  λ T 23:03, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Because stupidity isn't grounds for banning, sadly. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 23:07, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh. Sucks to be you guys then.  λ T 23:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

is the power armor related to enclave power armor?
is the power armor related to enclave power armor?
 * The Enclave Power Armor is supposed to be a newer, improved version. Unfortunately, the stats in Fallout 3 for all power armors are screwed up. Ausir 13:35, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Children
Is'nt it funny when you rp it on a kid? The Deathclaw Tamer 15:08, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Compromise
How about merging them again on one page, but rewriting the intro to say something like this:
 * Like its older brother, the standard Advanced Power Armor it's matte black with a menacing appearance, but with a few significant differences - it appears to be composed entirely of lightweight ceramic composites rather than the usual combination of metal and ceramic plates. Early versions (used by the Enclave in the 2240s), while composed of different materials, used the same design as the standard Advanced Power Armor. By 2277, the Enclave redesigned its appearance while keeping the "Advanced Power Armor Mk II" designation.

Followed by the game-specific sections. What do you think? Ausir 18:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It should reflect that (at least in my opinion) years of constant travel and fighting forced the Enclave to redesign and simplify the appearance of the armour. While retaining some similarities, it's substantially different from the one i Fo2. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 22:16, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think this is a bit too speculative. Ausir 22:18, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

My Humble Opinion
If I may put in my very inexperienced opinion, I think Bethesda went a little overboard with the Power Armors in Fallout 3. I never got into the series until Fallout 3 but thanks to the wikia I did my homework on the earier games. In Fallout there were two Power Armors: T-51b and its hardened versions, Fallout 2 added in the Enclave versions which were better.

When you think of Power Armor, think of several people who use them: Iron Man, Spartan 117, Samus Aran and several others. What words describe these people: powerful, fast, ass-kicking near gods. Power Armor should be rare and powerful artifacts from the pre-war era. T-51b is described as making a soldier a walking tank and the other people I mention exemplify this. Now for Bethesda they missed this memo when they created Fallout 3 and made Power Armor nothing more than a suit of plate armor in the 23nd century. It slows you down when you should be out running other people. It weighs a lot when the purpose of Power Armor is to make you not feel it. Okay it does have realtively good DR but shouldn't it shrug off bullets like nothing?

It's a shame that Power Armor is so flawed in Fallout 3 when everything else is realistic. Bethesda should have did their homework on the original Power Armors when they decided to equalize Advanced Power Armor and T-45d. Advanced Power Armor should be Advanced not the same as T-45d. They don't even have the right to call the Enclave Power Armor Advanced Power Armor as they share little in common except for their owners.--KnightNapier 19:00, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * "It's a shame that Power Armor is so flawed in Fallout 3 when everything else is realistic."


 * "...in Fallout 3 when everything else is realistic."


 * "...realistic."


 * You're looking for realism in Fallout 3?! Nitty 19:06, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Good thing he isn't looking for realism in the other two games, he'd get mighty bad optical strain.
 * Don't troll. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 11:12, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

What I meant by realism is general realism. I take the term "realism" very vaguely and yes I know that Science Fiction is rarely "realistic" but that's the genera. In Fallout 3 the Power Armors are just heavy armors that offer some good protection, not awesome suits of armor like they should. I'd pay through the nose for something that can turn Pee Wee Herman into Mister T.--KnightNapier 13:33, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Fallout has some semblance of realism at least, unlike Halo, or Metroid, or Iron Man. You are seriously going to cite 2 video games and a comic book for realism? I'll even go so far as to give you Halo as being somewhat realistic, due to it being MUCH farther in the future than Fallout, so some of the tech is plausible (maybe). Actual power suits the military is researching however aren't anything like in those games. They are meant to have tough shells, they are supposed enhance strength and endurance enough to compensate for battlefield equipment (not lift trucks), and they are supposed to offer protection from harsh environments (of course, they haven't perfected the tech, or even released a working prototype). Do those traits sound familiar? Oh yea, that's exactly what the Fallout power armor does. Considering all the power armor was built before 2077 (save for the enclave's, who based theirs on the old armors), I'd say the power armor is one of the more realistic aspects of Fallout. So what is it you want, realism or fantasy?--CapitalJack 00:29, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He's referring to what the armour is in Fallout 3 - just another piece of easily replaceable armour. The very fact that Ranger Battle Armor is a viable replacement for something like the T-51b Power Armor shows that any semblance of in-universe realism is thrown away through the window. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 23:52, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll give you that; the other armors need to be weakened or the power armor needs to be buffed, but not to the "near god" levels Knight was alluding to. Really my beef is more with how he thought having crazy awesome MJOLNIR-level power armor would classify as "realistic."--CapitalJack 01:06, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

This may be the overstatement of the century but I think I mispoke when I wrote my two posts. What I meant by the "realism factor" is that the Power Armor should give you a good reason to wear it such as a healthy stength increase or great damage resistance like it had in Fallout 1 and 2. (well in some regards) In Fallout 3 Power Armor can be replaced by a number of other armors and that could be becasue of their age. That would be realistic as T-45d was an older version but why is T-51b the replacement suffering from similar problems? My references to Halo, Metroid and Iron Man were made to reference examples of Power Armor and what they could be. In reality they are apples and oranges and you can't compare the other armors to Fallout's which is true. Fallout's are old tech but maybe the could have better stats.

I made my remarks after looking over the stats for Power Armor and comparing it to Interplay's versions and other armors in Fallout 3. If you have Broken Steel Lag Bolt's armor is a fairly good replacement for Power Armor and easier to repair which to me doesn't make sense. I may be a little too "head in the clouds" but I think that the Power Armors could have been done a little better. Not to MJOLNIR standards but maybe more like the original versions which would be realistic. I'm not asking for MJOLNIR but I think that they could be a little better. But who am I to judge?--205.188.117.8 18:08, 28 August 2009 (UTC)