Talk:CZ57 Avenger/Archive 1

i think this could be a unique weapon

The description for this gun says it can use incendiary 5mm ammunition. I don't think 5mm incendiary ammo exists. There's regular, surplus, hollowpoint, and armor piercing, but not incendiary.


 * Even if it exists, this weapon can't use it (it's not listed in GECK). Modified the page to reflect this. (The author of the edit states that he took the citation from description of the weapon from F2/FT, but there's no such sentence.) --Jonathan Strange 09:05, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Does the gun in any way have a modification script attached to it, that makes the bullets incendiary? There was the Zhu-Rong v418 Chinese pistol in FO3, that did that. Aryeonos What!? 14:57, November 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, I just checked in GECK. Zhu-Rong pistol has the same object effect applied to it as every flame-based weapon (caused fire damage over time after being hit with it), but CZ57 Avenger is just a minigun with regular ammo. You can take a look yourself: --Jonathan Strange 18:32, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

Its pretty funny that CZ57 is actually pistop in real life.
 * No it's not, there is no such thing as a CZ57 in real life. - RASICTalk 10:24, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

DPS
The page says it has the 2nd highest DPS at 420 and that YCS/186 Gauss Rifle beats this, however the YCS/186 Gauss Rifle page says it has a DPS of 163 which is considerably lower, what is incorrect here, the YCS/186 Gauss Rifle page or the statement on this page? - RASICTalk 22:32, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the Avenger has a higher DPS, as the YCS/186 is single shot, which means it would have to deal AT LEAST 420 dam a shot, because of it's reload time. 50.8.131.242 04:44, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

lots of people keep "correcting" weapons dps to what GECK says, which is wrong.137.186.66.8

You don't seem to understand how it works. GECK only displays values from game, thus it is always correct. Because if we theoretically considered it faulty, then every other piece of data on this website and in-game would be incorrect. It that makes any sense to you.--Jonathan Strange 09:27, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

Well DPS is Damage Per Second, and the values reflected in the GECK didn't always represent real world performance. I would say whichever value actually reflects in-game damage should be used.--173.24.217.58 23:37, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

But DPS on this page is correct, no? DMG/attack * attacks/sec -> 14*30 = 420?--Jonathan Strange 07:58, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

The way the GECK calculates DPS does not factor in reloading. The YCS/186 has much lower actual DPS than the GECK lists because you must reload every shot. If you fire long enough to reload the dps for the Avenger drops significantly as well.141.217.173.83 19:26, November 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * While I agree that GECK's DPS calculations are sometimes wrong, I don't see any reason whatsoever to include reload time into DPS formula. Also, I take it you know that GECK has separate calculations for DPS with and without reload times?--Jonathan Strange 20:38, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * No reason to include reload times? Why? We include them because then the stats are accurate to the game... Nitty Tok. 20:56, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Umm, excuse me? It was never included. In this template the DPS calculation in FO3 didn't include it, now in F:NV it doesn't include it either, since the in-game DPS and GECK DPS (when it's correct...) displays it without reload times. I consider reload time to be a period of time when you don't shoot (thus do no *damage*), thus it's only logical you will not include it when calculating *damage* per second.--Jonathan Strange 21:18, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * But according to the Gauss rifle (Operation: Anchorage) page, we do. If it can only do 100 damage once and then reload, we leave it at the point of reloading. :/ Nitty Tok. 21:21, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you agreeing with me or am I missing something because the DPS is correct. damage/shot = 100, attacks/sec = 1 -> 100*1 = 100 DPS?--Jonathan Strange 21:27, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * The attacks/second is counting the rifle's reload there. Nitty Tok. 21:30, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I fired up FO3 just to test this, because it seemed really improbable that any gun can fire and reload in just 1 second and of course it can't. Shooting + reload time is at least 2 seconds with the Gauss rifle in FO3...--Jonathan Strange 21:39, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's right. It only gets one attack per second. Nitty Tok. 21:40, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thus the attacks/second is NOT counting the rifle's reload time.--Jonathan Strange 09:20, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

This is seriously an argument? Damage Per Second. Say my gun can fire 1 shot and then has to reload, but does 1000 damage per shot. Now if my targets health is <1000 the dps will stand to be, you guessed it, 1000. Because combat ends within the time damage is delivered. However, if my target's health is 1001> DPS is no longer 1000 depending on the time it takes to reload.

Whatever the situation...
When you have a good supply of AP ammo and a decent Guns skill (and enough strength, Buffout or Ant Nectar helps), this is as potent a gun as any in the game, in and/or out of VATS. Watch Deathclaw or Giant Radscorpion health just whither away and melt to their death (again, using AP ammo).--Morty343 07:50, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Or you could shoot and kill it in one shot with minimal weapon wear and time wasted on such annoyances as deathclaws. --72.193.230.231 05:03, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

some enemies have enbough DT to negate all damage even with AP ammo

It cost 400 000 repair kits to fire this weapon... for 12 seconds
This weapon CND goes down REALY fast, and even with Jury rigging you need another minigun to repair it, so i wouldn't recommend it unless you really have a big guns character and a lot of repair kits (and maybe raul as companion), also has anyone noticed the reference to heavy weapons guy from TF2? i mean, look at the barrel, the sound and even the sparks effect of the weapon, the only thing it needs is a ammo belt instead of a box and a graffiti that reads that courier is a spy lol
 * What reference? Before "heavy weapons guy" from TF2, there were miniguns. The CND taking a hit is just a balancing side effect. KaisarDragon 15:13, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * It should say "Cry some more!" on the side, if we really wanted a TF2 reference. :P
 * It's a strange reference to both miniguns in Fallout 2. Nitty Tok. 16:10, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * You are baby. Shadowrunner(stuff) 16:30, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * You just need the Outsmart Booletz perk now. :D Nitty Tok. 16:32, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

I lol'd so hard at the outsmart boolet perk, btw i dont mean ALL and any miniguns are TF2 references but JUST LOOK AT IT I MEAN same barrel, same sounds, same sparks effect and even a simmilar amount of ammo?, they should've called it SASHA IS DELICIOUS.
 * Actually, the only weapon that could out-DPS this gun is the Peelz-Launcher. Just fire it at an enemy and it sticks to them. Louis is drawn by the special sound made by firing the weapon, which only he can hear as only he has used Pills so often. Louis descends from the sky, and rips apart the unfortunate target stuck with pills. He culminates the cycle by the "Grabbin' Peelz" and using them. Alternately, you can just call in a chocolate Vertibird, which Coach will proceed to swallow in one bite, killing anyone in the Vertibird and anybody close enough to also be swallowed.    --TJbrena 20:28, February 4, 2011 (UTC)

This Vs. Normal
What would you say is better? This version, or the normal variant with all mods attached? (Taking into account the spread, fire rate and weapon wear and tear on both) AR700SAW 16:09, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ignoring all numbers, I'd say the minigun with mods. Ammo is never a problem with this gun with merchants selling 40+ boxes of bulk at a time. It seems with the Avenger, I was constantly using repair kits and reloading. I wasn't doing much killing. The minigun modded gave me enough accuracy, CND, and ammo per clip to get the job done. KaisarDragon 01:05, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

The problem with the Avenger is not much the durability, but the low magazine. When fighting large packs of foes, like in Quarry Junction or the final battle against the various Centurios in Hoover Dam, the Minigun upgraded is much better than Avenger. With Minigun+ you can really "Point and Click" and spray around a large area, but the Avenger empty the magazine so quickly that you don't have time to do this. Brfritos 23:57, February 10, 2011 (UTC)