Forum:Change "Notable Loot" section name to "Permanent Loot"

Confusion persists about
 * what loot is notable and
 * what loot is random vs. fixed

Would it help to rename the section title to "Permanent Loot" or "Fixed Loot?"--Gothemasticator 02:31, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

I know we've had plenty of issues around this in the past. Changing the name would be good, but changing the content of the category would be better. We can either keep it as is (which has advantages in terms of actually having useful content) or change it to include every single fixed item in the area (which brings with it the obvious advantage of not having to constantly monitor and revert edits which every single tin can or burnt pre-war book). Personally, I think a change to fixed loot would be good, with the proviso that we have some sort of expandable section for the fixed loot (otherwise a lot of location pages will be absolutely massive). --Johnny Trash (Talk) 13:52, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I really like the specialty tables that we have on Enclave oil rig and West Tek Research Facility for loot, but I also like what we've got going on already.
 * Would it be possible to include specific notable loot in proper article text like we do now, and list unimportant loot like tin cans and whatnot in a collapse box like on the two pages I mentioned? (UESP has listed out every single pickable mushroom in every single cave in Oblivion, so now I'm jealous. :P) Nitty Tok. 04:18, January 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * I really like the Oil Rig setup. I don't think we need a collapsable table on each page, but perhaps it would help to list containers with contents or "random," and then we could have an entry for "loose." It could go room by room. That way, we could avoid the cumbersome descriptions like, "on a table over in the northeast corner by some fallen lockers." We could just list all the loose junk in the room.--Gothemasticator 05:25, January 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * What about containers? Should we get the leveled lists for those, format them into a table or something? Nitty Tok. 22:41, January 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ooh. That'd be neat! However, I personally would be content to just list their contents as "Leveled loot."--Gothemasticator 00:14, January 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, list on the location page as leveled loot but link that to a separate page where the leveled container tables are located. Nitty - those tables on the oil rig and west tek pages are what I was thinking of. I saw them ages ago but couldn't find them - was starting to think I had imagined the whole thing. --Johnny Trash (Talk) 02:44, January 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, Reno. :3
 * I don't see how listing leveled loot itself would be any good, Goth; we'd need to list the percentages for everything (similar to how Porter listed out the loadouts for the Chinese Remnant soldier page), else anons and newbie users would rip the shreds out of the articles with possible permutations.
 * But, I dunno how to look up leveled lists with any degree of certainty. Certainly would be a big project. Nitty Tok. 02:48, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it would do anything to clear up confusion without a drastic overhaul of the actual content in each section. The issue would merely shift from "what is notable?" to "what is loot?" And if you tried to solve that dispute with the bright-line rule of cataloging everything, I think it would result in a waste of editors' time, drain their enthusiasm, and make it harder for players to use this wiki efficiently. There's just too much clutter in Fallout 3 and New Vegas which is either useless, only negligibly useful, or so abundant that it's not worth the time and energy it would take to catalog its every appearance. Minor Edits 04:40, January 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Objection. Clutter is great and I'd love to spearhead the ages of counting tin cans and burned books for the sake of completeness. I just don't know how to handle level lists. Nitty Tok. 04:44, January 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Overruled! Order!  Relevance!  Badgering!  Sidebar!  Hey, if that's how you want to spend your time, great.  I like completion.  Where would you even begin, though?  Fallout 3, Vault 101, and just go from there? Minor Edits 05:03, January 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Start with important loot and containers first. :P Nitty Tok. 05:06, January 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * So the scope of this project would revolve around taking the loot section of each page and consolidating them into collapsible lists like that found on the Enclave oil rig page, and then allow people to add totals for any items which may be taken into the player's inventory? It sounds like a pretty big overhaul.  But I guess that doesn't really matter if the end result is a wiki that's more helpful and just as accessible.  If we can be sure that's what this project would result in, I guess I'm for it. Minor Edits 05:39, January 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm for you doing it, I mean. :) Minor Edits 05:41, January 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll give you a hand Nitty, I haven't had much time to do anything non work-related lately, but I've got a massive amount of free time on the near horizon. Question though - will the GECK be easier than counting by hand? --Johnny Trash (Talk) 06:29, January 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * GECK's probably going to be easier, because of nooks and cubbies inaccessable or hidden in normal play.
 * GECK is required for use with leveled lists, though; check out my fancy work on the inventories of Jean-Baptiste Cutting, Gloria Van Graff, and Simon (Fallout: New Vegas). Trial-and-error format that we usually do would have people arguing about whether, for instance, Simon had stims and bottle caps or not. It's already looking easy. :D Nitty Tok. 04:27, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

You're not the only one who's jealous of UESP's loot and container lists, Nitty :) If people are really interested in doing these, I'd simply list fixed loot and the type of containers on the location page, while linking the containers to pages which list their possible contents (see e.g. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Doomed_Mine). That way, all those container world object pages would have some use finally. -- Porter21 (talk) 23:52, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm really interested in doing these. Aren't two enough? :P
 * Perhaps we should put it up for further discussion and vote, maybe as a project? Nitty Tok. 01:56, January 31, 2011 (UTC)