User talk:Shaktiboy

 Welcome to The Vault! Hello, Shaktiboy, and welcome to The Vault, the Fallout wiki! Thank you for your contributions, and we hope you'll stay with us and make many more.

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-- Nitpicker of the Wastes (Talk) 12:40, October 25, 2010

Guide
Please post your guide either in the forum or on your blog - however, we do not allow such "personal" guides in the article space. Ausir(talk) 13:43, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

(original guide content moved to Shaktiboy's blog by Shaktiboy) Shaktiboy 19:14, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Please leave out the category when posting it as a blog. Thanks. -- 18:36, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Chill out
The page does not belong on the wiki - and if you'll look on this page, Ausir even agrees AND I have provided the text of the deleted page as requested. All you're doing right now is making yourself look like a whiny child, posting messages on the Bureaucrats' talk pages about me - which, by the way, are 100% public and can be seen by anyone, in case you hadn't figured that out. I'm not inclined to do you any more favors. -- 19:01, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

If the shoe fits
I'm sure you had good intentions and were simply cleaning out content you felt didn't belong. But it's one thing to revert obvious vandalism or delete obvious mischief without explanation. It's another thing entirely to delete substantive content that is NOT obvious vandalism or mischief without any recourse by the original author to adapt/change/recover their work to conform to whatever the current community guidelines might be. And FWIW, I understand the headaches of wiki admin because I admin 5 different wikis including two corporate wikis for tech doc purposes. Also, the current content guidelines for this wiki are NOT AT ALL clear regarding where and how guides should or should not be written or placed. The admin community might want to consider beefing up the verbiage in that regard. Based on my reading of the content guidelines and the stated deletion policy on this wiki, you had operated outside of the parameters. Sorry if saying so bluntly ruffled your feathers. I was simply escalating an appeal for assistance to the next level up in the admin hierarchy. I had no idea those comments would be publicly visible, since when first posted directly to you, the same exact "post a message" button did not result in a publicly visible comment on your page.

Meanwhile, thank you for returning the content to me. Shaktiboy 19:23, October 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, the comment you posted on my talk page is indeed publicly viewable; and I don't see what the need was to escalate when I promptly complied with your polite request, and posted the lost information here on your talk page, and did so before you started posting on Ausir's and Porter's talk pages. It's my opinion that you overreacted to this whole situation. -- 23:34, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Admin Deadlykris has violated admin and content policy
Usually it's best to contact the admin in question first; he/she will be familiar with the situation and be able to discuss in more detail. If consensus cannot be reached, then another admin should be contacted. However, I do not expect you to have known that - I'm merely explaining the usual process if you have an issue with an admin decision :)

In this case, Kris was enforcing a long-standing policy, even if it's not explicitly stated in VA:C. From our point of view, guides violate the rule "All content needs to be objective. Opinions and "my favourite"-style passages should not be added to articles". By their very nature, guides contain opinions, subjective recommendations and the like. I'll see about mentioning guides more explictly though.

Anyhow, I've restored the page and moved it to User:Shaktiboy/Universal character development guide, although I have noticed that you've already reposted the guide on your blog, so feel free to tag it with delete if you want either of the two pages deleted.

By the way, no worries when something is deleted - on a wiki nothing is lost, everything can always be restored. -- Porter21 (talk) 22:28, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Reverts
I think you need to settle down. Revert them, but fix your typos with the double )). Also I have never heard a math formula start with Roundup, it comes at the end. Mictlantecuhtli 14:31, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Think about it
Ever used a spreadsheet? That's what most Fallout players will use to figure out their builds if they're the type that's prone to crunch numbers. In every spreadsheet out there, the formula's function name comes first, followed by the full mathematical expression inside of function delimiters. For example:

=roundup(expression)

Also, the )) at the end was NOT a typo. This is basic math even if you're not using a spreadsheet:

2 + (statA x 2) + (statB / 2)

is fully equivalent to

(2 + (statA x 2) + (statB / 2))

And finally, putting "rounded up" at the end is AMBIGUOUS:

"2 + (statA x 2) + (statB / 2) rounded up" could mean either


 * The entire expression is rounded up, OR
 * only the (statB / 2) is rounded up.

In this particular case with FNV, the ambiguity doesn't affect the result, but its certainly less ambiguous to phrase the formula as:

roundup (2 + (stat A x 2) + (statB / 2))

which can mean only one thing: the entire expression is rounded up. Shaktiboy 14:57, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * This isn't a spreadsheet, and I use a pencil and notepad. Mictlantecuhtli 16:47, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I never reverted your edits, I fixed the double )) typo and moved rounded up to the end. There is no reason to get angry and start namecalling. Mictlantecuhtli 19:07, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Orly?
Mict, here is the exact text of the formula for the Barter skill now, after you got done with your second round of corrections. In my eyes, it's a reversion regardless of whether you clicked the Undo button or hand-edited it. Can you spot the unbalanced set delimiters? (that's the parentheses mark around each atomic element of the total expression):

(2 + (Charisma x 2) + (Luck / 2) rounded up

In your zeal to remove the position of the "roundup" function name that is STANDARD on every spreadsheet and that even you must have understood the meaning of (even if the placement seemed weird to you), you actually reintroduced the exact ambiguity that I was trying to fix in the first place. You have your choice of two correct expressions. I ain't bothering to fix your mess but honestly you should take the time to do so since you (re)created the mess twice now. Both of the following formats are clear and unambiguous:

roundup (2 + (Charisma x 2) + (Luck / 2))

or

(2 + (Charisma x 2) + (Luck / 2)) rounded up

Take your pick if you have a conscience. I'm done. Shaktiboy 22:34, October 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yet again you insist that "most people" use spreadsheets, when that simply isn't true. Mictlantecuhtli 23:46, October 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually you are wrong Mictlantecuhtli in the use of parentheses, regardless of using a spreadsheet, notepad or anything else you please. In mathematics open bracket must be accompanied by a closing set as well to isolate as a separate function outside the normal flow of the equation. There are 3 opening brackets and need to be accompanied by 3 closing brackets even if that means a double post to isolate a function within a function. But in the use of the function you are both wrong, the function is actually "ceil" in mathmatics but called ceiling or round up. Round up is acceptable (although incorrect term) alternative and its use is debatable outside purist mathematics. As for the use of the function and its placement, that always precedes the actual equation regardless of using spreadsheet or not. So the original formula was correct, but if you wish to make it more conscience then you would require to simple replace roundup with ceil. And if you want to take it a step further you could use the actual ceil brackets, but you would need a image file to display it as such. So the acceptable correction would be as follows.


 * A = ceil (2 + (B x 2) + (C / 2))


 * So in short Mictlantecuhtli your correction is a step backwards and set to your own standards. GhostAvatar 14:06, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracket_(mathematics) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounding


 * Explained without a single instance of namecalling, kudos Ghost. Mictlantecuhtli 14:28, October 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Now started to go around and updating formulas to the proper display method as exampled below
 * $$Initial~level = 2 + (Charisma \times 2) + \left \lceil \frac {Luck}{2} \right \rceil $$
 * GhostAvatar 03:13, November 1, 2010 (UTC)