Talk:The Thorn

Torn?
Does the sign look like the title to TORN, or is it just me? Nitty Tok. 01:11, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * There's some similarities to be sure - the width and relative size of the letters to each other, for starters - but there's also differences, such as the angularity of the letters in Thorn compared to the smoothness of the typeface in TORN. -- 01:16, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Join the Fight (lost companions)
I went and chose to fight in the arena against some creatures (in this case, 3 giant mantis'), and now my companions are no where to be found. They didn't show up after the fight, during fast traveling or after waiting, nor could I find them in The Thorn or at their original locations.

Are they gone for good now? Meaning that the arena fights have a serious companion bug.--24.215.120.46 21:48, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Go to Vault 22, take elevator to any floor. Companions will be sitting outside the elevator after loading screen. --JPro 11:58, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

you can normally find them near the door where you come in blakey12

why fight?
Is there a benefit to fighting in the arena? It seems like a major risk given all the bugs that occur. (I myself got trapped in the arena my first go and haven't tried again). Is it like fighting at Caesar's fort, where there are progressively harder 'rounds' after which you gain notoriety for beating them all? Or is it just an endless tirade of bug-stomping? Thanks in advance 99.238.176.88 05:20, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, when you fight enough of the weaker creatures(took me three rounds of fighting three giant radscorpions) you'll be able to fight tougher enemies. Fighting three deathclaws gives you... 500 caps.--BSMaker 06:03, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the cost of all the ammo you spend probably isn't worth the amount that they give you for each fight, so no, there isn't much point to it. --pongsifu Nov 2, 2010

unless you use a ballistic fist or love and hate so yeah douche bag there is a point make a shiznit load of money no guns no ammo lost = profit oh and to my character using guns is for weaklings

Gambling more than 20 caps on fights?
Sometimes it can be pretty east to predict which creatures will win the fights. Like Deathclaw vs. 2 Giant Radscorpions, or 3 Nightstalkers vs. 3 Fiends with pool cues. But I can only bet 20 caps each time. If there is some way to bet more caps, this could be an easy source of fast caps. Anyone know how?--76.98.45.216 22:03, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Presumably the small amount of caps that are able to be bet is because of the reason you want to bet more. Obsidian probably thought "Hey... this could become a stupid easy way to make caps... let's not let them do that..." The thorn seems to be a last-minute addition (see: all the bugs) that is just to be there for a fun excuse to watch 3 Nightstalkers murder 3 Fiends with pool cues (to use your example) or whatever you happen to feel like watching get murdered horribly.Turnoverman 21:59, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

Entire Arena Turn Blue?
has anyone else had this bug? is it a bug? I haven't read anything about it in this wiki page.

on PC, I had the bug where you place a bet and the creatures entering the arena just sit there. So I shot the deathclaw, and all the guards started shooting at me. As soon as I shot one of the guards, the entire arena turned blue. Here's a screenshot: http://i56.tinypic.com/2h85tsy.jpg --Wck604 21:23, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

I can't tell you why that happened, and I can't tell you that it's happened to me, but that's low-light vision.

I remember reading on the Nuka-cola Quarts page that if an NPC drinks some you get low-light vision. (I'm kinda just assuming you saved before you shot the deathclaw, so I'm going to tell you what to do as if you did) Pick everyone in area's pocket (as in, open the menu, you don't necessarily have to take anything) and if someone has a Nuka-cola Quarts in their inventory, you have your culprit (and a free Nuka-Cola Quarts if you manage to take it)Turnoverman 16:33, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Fight doesn't happen.
A Deathclaw and a Fire Gecko have just been staring at eachother for days now in the Thorn. I can't talk to Lucy and get the quest from her because she just says: "talk to me after the fight". I also remember her saying that if you interfere with a fight you'll be killed, or banned, so I don't wanna do that.--86.44.139.230 19:18, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

I ran into the same thing with two Deathclaws. I tried many various ways to make it so that they don't notice me killing one of them. Sneak attack criticals don't work. The way I ended up doing it was simple, yet hard to think of and possibly only worked because of luck. I jumped in the pit (turns them hostile), then went into sneak mode and turned on a stealth boy (turns them non-hostile) then I went into the door (the metal door, not the chain fence) that has the ladder in the room behind it. I shot at one of the deathclaws and both of them came charging at me (which proves that the reason they aren't hostile is that they're marked wrong faction-wise) I let them run into the room and then I continued shooting at them until one became less-alive. Upon finishing that one off I used another stealth boy (the first hadn't run out, but it made the other deathclaw and possibly The Thorn non-hostile again). I went up the ladder and talked to Red Lucy and got my 40 caps.

Note: I left Boone outside, and it might be a good idea to leave any companions you have outside too...Turnoverman 16:27, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

I had the same problem with the creatures not fighting I solved this by talking to Red Lucy constantly until I got an easy opponent on the red corner team something like a Fire Gecko or Giant Mantis preferably one that is easy to kill, then when the battle began i ran down the stairs and sat in the corner well hidden then took a shot at the Gecko's head and killed it with one shot (one shot kills dont seem to make the guards hostile to you as long as you are hidden, although my character did have 76 sneak skill at the time so lower sneak may differ) the only problem was the body did not dissapear like it was supposed to so i ended up jumping into the arena and dragging it back into its starting chamber (I did use a stealth boy but at this point the guards may not turn hostile to you (needs conformation)) and that made it disolve i went back up the ladder hit the switch to open the door and got my 40 caps off Red Lucy and that seemed to cure it for me the future fights i have had up to this point have worked fine.

Note: It is best not to save the game when two creatures are in the arena while this glitch is happening thus you may have to hard creatures to kill like deathclaws or giant radscorpions which are not easy to kill with one shot --92.232.135.52 00:11, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

Here's how I resolved this, as I had the issue with two Deathclaws doing nothing. I had Raul with me as a companion. First of all get your companion to wait outside The Thorn. Go back in. Go down the steps that lead to the sidegate, and crouch walk. Go down as far as you can without touching the floor (I think touching the floor triggers everyone becoming hostile), and you should, with some luck, be able to shoot both of the Deathclaws. (Or perhaps other creatures.) They'll run around aimlessly, not attacking each other but very pissed off at you. Exit The Thorn, get the companion to follow you and go back in. In my case, sometimes Raul did the following well, and sometimes not. Since the Deathclaws are hostile, the companion will start shooting them. However, Red Lucy and the guards will not react to this and you'll hear a round of applause as your companion kills them. With the Deathclaws this might take a good few minutes.

Once one of them is dead, in my experience Raul stopped shooting the other one. The other one also got stuck, so this was a problem. I decided to jump down in the arena and only one of the guards started shooting me. Raul blew his head off, and I shot the Deathclaw which ran towards me, and past me, into the other gate and then fading out. None of the other guards or Red Lucy were hostile. I went back up, got my caps. But oddly, when I aimed my weapon at the area the Deathclaw disappeared from, it shows it is still there (shows its name and health) when it is not. To resolve this I fought a single Giant Mantis and the "Deathclaw" disappeared. This method probably sounds a bit complicated but it's worth a try if all else fails. It worked for me.

Edit: On further inspection, it seems Raul killed all of the guards. I can't complain as I got some useful weapons from them. --194.66.175.81 02:23, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

I had the problem with three cazadores versus three fiends. I was going to try the trick where my companions did the killing, but as I was trying that I found an easier way. I was going down the stairs as described above crouched, and considered "hidden" I was able to shoot all three with a silenced sniper rifle and kill each one with one shot. I kept checking on my "hidden" status and no one had a problem. Once all of the cazadores were dead everything was fine. My sneak was rather high, in the sixties, if yours is lower you might want to try a stealth boy.

Getting locked in the arena
How do you get out? PS3 Version.

I found a way out on the 360 version. If you get trapped in the arena jump up on the block with the flaming barrel on top nearest to where you're opponents came out. From there jump over to the block with outlet pipe coming out of it. Once up there jump up towards the wall on the right, you should get stuck 1/2 way up it. Then constantly move up and left(being careful not to fall off) with you're controller until you reach the fence with barb wire on the opposite side.Once there jump up to the left and voila you're out of the arena. Hope this helps :)--Mr Helpful 06:57, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Had the same thing happen two radscorpians just sat there doing nothing after several attempts to jump into the pit and kill every one (falling my quest) I used the gauss rifle to kill one of them after hiding down the stairs my sneak is not that high in the 40s I think (using stelf armour) the crowd cheered but still nothing happened. I got into the pit and non of the guards seemed to care so I dragged the scorpion to the back of the pit through the door and it disappeared this took a while to drag and I ended up having to smash the legs and stinger off to get it passed the door but it disappeared and I got my 20 caps and was able to do the quests. Note if you finish all the hunting quests you get a special treat.

Elder Scrolls
You know, I saw the notes ref about this being close to Oblivion's arena. However, I know I just found another reference. This time from Morrowind. One of the guards says "We're watching you.. ssssssssstranger." He puts a lot of hiss in that S. I immediately thought he was going to say scum, like the Ordinators of Vivec City. Subtle.

FNV was published by Bethesda but developed by Obsidian. Given that fact, it's unlikely any Oblivion references were intended. Cethis 10:24, November 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Right, because there would never be any Elder Scroll references in a game owned by Bethesda. TES-04 on poles means something else. The Arena in Oblivion, The Pitt in Fallout 3, and now The Thorn. I know that guard's line is a play at breaking the fourth wall. I've heard it enough times in Morrowind (thanks Pavlov!) to get it. Don't discount anything of Bethesda in the game simply because they didn't sole develop it. KaisarDragon 13:12, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, because they didn't develop it is exactly why it's likely not a specific reference. Developers create content, publishers distribute it. Well established references, such as the names of all the follower's quests, are instantly recognizable and leave no doubt in the mind as to what the developer was trying to do. A casual relationship between similar sounding phrases or words means nothing just because two games have the same publisher. Cethis 23:30, November 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Point is, that certainly isn't a reference. A similiar manner of speaking a reference doesn't make. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 00:22, November 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I've heard the comment after reading this section, and while I don't think it's mentionable on the article page, I will agree that it's definitely reminiscent of the Ordinators; and furthermore it's unlikely to be coincidence, simply because of how precise the phrasing of it is. On a side note, nothing made me want to kill Ordinators more than that comment. Scum? I'm out to save the goddamn WORLD, here, you red-eyed freak of an elf! Who you calling scum? -- 00:09, December 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * If there's question as to whether or not it's a reference, it's not worth mentioning IMO. Wikis tend to be about established facts, and that's just something we can't say for sure here. --Cethis 00:32, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

Oh for f**k's sake
This seems like the single most problematic area in the entire f**king game. So far I've lost two profiles to corruption while being in this area. The arena in TES:IV had pretty much no bugs that I could see and in fact it was a large portion of the game. This whole cell looks like a horrific abomination of lagginess, corruption, bugs and glitches and I think Obsidian should be ashamed. --Jackarunda 00:19, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have yet to exit this location by a method other than turning off my 360. Granted I can't use the console on this platform, but even then I doubt it would help. You aren't losing much by avoiding it. Caps are easy enough to make as it is. -Cethis 23:32, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Using a large amount of precautionary saves and reloading, I actually managed to schedule and watch every single fight option that Red Lucy gives. I did this mostly for entertainment and research. The only thing I really found out was what I already knew: cazadores are the deadliest fucking thing in the whole game and they never lose to anyone. Lol. --68.109.178.229 10:15, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cazadores should lose in a one-on-one with any type of deathclaw. A regular deathclaw should easily take out a whole cazador swarm. -- 11:26, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're right about the one-on-one. A deathclaw will win when faced with a single cazadore, probably two, but three is the MAX any type of deathclaw could handle. You're wildly incorrect about the swarm though. Not sure what difficulty you play on (don't think it matters) but there are no creatures in the wasteland that could deal with a cazadore swarm. A level 30 PC with two well equipped followers will be extremely hard pressed to even survive (on anything more than Normal) if discovered by a swarm. A pack of deathclaws (five or six) will suffer at least 4/5 casualties if faced with a full swarm. --68.109.178.229 04:27, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

Everyone says this area is problematic, i've fought in the arena facing every possible enemy and watched well over 40 fights, and haven't seen even ONE Glitch. They always went in their proper cages, I NEVER Froze or lagged even a little, and at no time did the doors seal up on me. How strange.

PS. 3 Caz vs 1 deathclaw, Cazadores will proceed to rape said deathclaw with a little as one cazadore death. You have to remember, the deathclaw swipes then waits about a half second before re-attacking, while he gets stabbed 3 times with a vicious poison. By the time he kills one, he'd die of poison,...Troy242621 03:53, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

can't fight more than giant radscorpions
I've heard here that if you fight all three giant radscorpions a few times, it will unlock tougher creatures in the tree. The page also states I can fight up to three deathclaws.

However, I've beaten the three giant radscorpions at least 6 times, and there's still no option to fight stronger critters.

I've also fought all of the lesser creatures in the tree, in each quantity, for good measure. Still no love.

Anyone?24.86.226.9 02:06, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * To unlock the higher up enemies, ,you have to complete the quest Bleed Me Dry. After getting all the egs, you fight deathclaws, fire geckos, and nightstalkers to your hearts content. Best regards, Kastera(talk) 23:33, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Kastera!24.86.226.9 00:24, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Too Easy and Exploitable (With Some Examples)
For starters when you bet on a fight it doesn't matter what side you choose, because when the fight starts you can kill the side you don't want to win from above where Red Lucy is standing, and then the guards will shoot at you and if you have companion(s) they will kill them all and you suffer no penalty as long as you don't attack anyone, and Red Lucy will not attack you or your companion if you don't attack the guards yourself. Eventually all the guards will die from your companion and you can just keep on killing the side you didn't choose and reap the cap rewards.

But that's not even the most face-roll part of it all, if you unlock the option to fight against 3 deathclaws all you have to do is use a fairly decent weapon (i used a Q-35 Matter Modulator with regular MF cells with about 75 energy wep skill) and all you do is move towards the gate in sneak mode until it's about to open then step back to the door behind you and shoot the deathclaws a few times and they should die like a small dog. So i can do that over and over again several times a minute and get 500 caps each time plus deathclaw eggs and hands which are worth 400 and 75 caps a piece so that equals pretty much free money with little durability loss at all. This can also be done with any other creatures you fight in the pit but i wouldn't recommend repeatedly doing it over and over with anything but deathclaws unless you need some ingredient for a campfire recipe for example something like radscorpion psn glands.

In conclusion of what I'm trying to say is that you can pretty much control The Thorn like you own the place. Rigging all the fights to your favor with no penalty and going down into the arena yourself for a brief moment to sneak attack a few deathclaws and walk through to collect your money and drops AND NOT TO MENTION all the FREE EXP you get is ridicules! I think that the whole thing was put together at last minute and really is heavily exploitable. They should of made it like Oblivion's arena where you can't use whatever armor you want, and you can't loot the corpses of the combatants, you can't get experience for killing combatants, and you can't hide from the enemies when the gate opens, well usually you can't if you don't have chameleon, but anyway there should of been definite restrictions while making this part of the game. and to fix the betting rigged fights exploit they should put an invisible collision wall where the pit is or something so bullets can't go down into the pit or make the combatants immune to the couriers bullets. I love this game but it's a tad on the easy side if you got a little knowledge on how the game works, "wink wink" this site has all the info you need to master the game lol. Master Rob Aug 08, 2011

Yes, but in Oblivion the whole game was a joke : You could raise almost all your skill to 100 and get to level 25 or 30 before even leaving the imperial prison. And still, it was not as easy as Morrowind where you could get to level 48 or 50 before leaving Balmora and go directly to red mountain to fight Dagoth Ur and the ash vampires naked and barehands. Each game has it's flaws. Here you need an exploit to cheat the game, it is already better. --Croquignol 21:21, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Which side is blue?
sorry first time using. can anyone tell me what side blue is?blakey12
 * I'm pretty sure the right side is blue and the left side is red. You could always just run an experiment. Bet on blue then see which side wins. If you get some caps out of it, that means whatever side won was blue. Besides, if you lose it's only 20 caps or something. --Kastera (talk) 21:38, October 25, 2011 (UTC)