The Vault talk:Fallout 3 locations project/Archive 1

Start
Oh I'm on this. Spoon 14:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Should I go location scouting for the 'ideal' article? Spoon 14:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm... I'm not sure that there's a perfect location, but look around. Preferably something out-of-the-way; not Megaton, which garners tons of attention. Nitty 14:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Whoa... Girdershade needs some TLC... Spoon 14:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I guess we should start with identifying required sections, see what's generally missing and then create a sample layout people can orient themselves after. -- Porter21 (talk) 14:38, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * For instance, almost all of the location infoboxes are missing the Cell IDs and ref IDs. These should be added; the location template supports them (cellname and refid parameters) and there's a full list of both on the page I linked. -- Porter21 (talk) 14:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I've just joined the project as I'm most am able to play fallout 3 and use wiki at the same time. And exploring is easy for me since I don't fast travel as often due to my last being a 4 albino ambush.Gameboy627 14:46, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you any good with a GECK? Because me and Nitpicker are cheap-skate console users. Spoon 14:47, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm in too. I'll help where I can, but I don't have access to the GECK -- I'm on the 360. --Sentinel 101 14:55, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm console as well since my dad doesn't want me installing games onto the family pc. Am I allowed to post a link to a website where I usually read info on a fallout 3 message board or is that against the rules since I know some people their who have access to the GECK.Gameboy627 14:57, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

i have the pc version--5:33pm 19:12, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Outline
I think the basic outline should be:
 * Description
 * Any history associated with it
 * Types of enemy you encounter (Ghouls, roaches, lurks, that sort of thing), but only if there is one 'type', so people know what's in there.
 * Notable loot
 * Nearby points of interest (Including RE points)
 * And then any trivia.

Would you guys think?

Spoon 14:41, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

The "notable loot" one is difficult. What counts as notable loot? Custom weapon parts? Scrap Metal? Nitty 14:42, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Unique weapons and armour, custom weapon parts (out in open), quantums, bobbleheads, skill books. Spoon 14:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There's actually a guideline at Help:Notable loot. We can either use that or modify it a bit. -- Porter21 (talk) 14:47, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What about Blood Packs and Cameras? I'm thinking that anything that could be used in a repeatable quest should count. Also, are we really going to find every last Tin Can for a Nuka-Grenade? Nitty 14:49, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Quest-relevant stuff should be mentioned, yes.

If we do do the repeatable quest items, we must stress that it is only ones lieing in the open. Spoon 14:51, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. What about rare-ish containers, like Safes and Vending Machines? Nitty 14:53, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * We could simply mention how many containers of each type are in each zone. People can then check the container pages for what loot you can usually find in there. -- Porter21 (talk) 14:57, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

In general, I think we should add location walkthroughs by zones, with an image of the local map for each zone (if you're familiar with UESP, you'll know what I mean). Starting with Spoon's outline, I was thinking to have something like: -- Porter21 (talk) 14:55, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Intro sentence (XYZ is a location in Fallout 3, populated by (this will of course need modifying if there are no enemies). It can be found
 * General description and history
 * Sections/Zones
 * Section 1 description and map
 * These section descriptions should include how many enemies you encounter there, what fixed loot you can find, notable stuff etc
 * Section 2 description and map
 * Notable loot
 * Trivia
 * I have no idea what UESP is. But, this is an excellent outline. Should we have Bugs in there? Nitty 15:02, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, probably (I hate Bugs sections with a passion) :P UESP is the Elder Scrolls wiki. I don't think the layout for Oblivion place pages there is perfect for our purposes but it's a good start. See this article, for example. What I like are the per-section-descriptions, what I don't like is the somewhat bullet-point-heavy style and the lots of whitespace. -- Porter21 (talk) 15:07, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, that's a plan. Franklin Metro Utility and several others I can't remember off-hand have local maps with letters and whatnot. Would those be at all possible, on such a large scale? Nitty 15:12, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it depends on how handy you guys are with image editing :) As far as I can see, getting the location maps will largely be up to me since I'm the only PC user here currently. There's no problem with getting the raw maps but also adding points of interest would be a bit much for me alone. -- Porter21 (talk) 15:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Spoon and I are decent with MS Paint. We could probably get the letters and text attached. Nitty 15:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I've been away guys. And Porter, I too hate those Bug sections. But I like your idea in regards to the outline. And yes, I could do some image editing, as long as I'm provided with said images. Spoon 15:27, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

i have the guid and a compleat map of the capitol wasteland--5:33pm 19:15, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Gameboy tries to help
Would you guys need a film of any locations? Because I have a capture card so I can film off of game from my 360. So I could film a location in fallout 3. Gameboy627 15:27, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, we won't need videos for a location. All it would be is the player walking around different locations killing things. Nitty 15:29, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Dang since I'd finally have a use for it. But can I post a link to a website that has loads of video game fourms since I know some pc users their who have access to the GECK. Gameboy627 15:31, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Which forum is this... exactly? Spoon 15:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Well It has a message board in it. Ever heard of Gamefaqs?Gameboy627 15:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

It's up to Nitpicker or Porter, really. Spoon 15:36, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, all we really need are those IDs. If you could find a list of them, we could just get copy and paste to do the work. Nitty 15:38, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Ids for...? Since I can just ask a person named midas for loads of ids as he's a beast at hexing. If those are the Ids you need. Gameboy627 15:39, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Location ID's. Spoon 15:40, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * But only for the locations you can actually reach. The rest are dummy cells. Nitty 15:41, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Why is their a section with my name and whoever made it spelt tries wrong. So you want me to get most location Ids for the places that aren't testing areas from the games beta stage? Gameboy627 15:43, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Essentially, yes. There's already a list here, but half of them aren't used. And the list isn't very clear on which those are. Nitty 15:46, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be easier if porter did it since appearently midas can't get me the location ids without getting the pc version and using the GECK which so far only porter has since he has the pc version. Gameboy627 15:52, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

One of the hexers from gamefaqs I just noticed joined his user for the wikia is agentsergei. He might have the ids. Gameboy627 16:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Guys, we already have a list of IDs, I linked it above :P See Cell IDs. -- Porter21 (talk) 16:04, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll start adding Cell IDs. --Sentinel 101 16:43, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm having problems with my internet connection, so I'm gonna have to stop for today. I'll continiue adding ID's tommorrow, if I can get my internet working (decently) again. All A's and B's on the Cell ID page have been added to the relevant articles. -- Sentinel 101 18:29, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Good :) I'll add some tables tomorrow to make it easier to keep track of everyone's progress. -- Porter21 (talk) 18:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, problems solved, back on-line and ready for more ;). I'm going to continiue adding Cell IDs. --Sentinel 101 09:08, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * IDs for the Abandoned Car Fort and Camp RHO (amongst others) are not listed at Cell ID, probably because they've got no seperate cell from the Wasteland. How do we deal with cases like these? --Sentinel 101 09:57, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Make an own section on this talk page and list them. Someone with the GECK can then look them up later (which is tedious but doable). -- Porter21 (talk) 10:03, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

So, let's get started.
As Spoon already stated, Girdershade's a mess. Perhaps we should fix that first and use that as a guide, for what the ideal location article should look like. Nitty 15:56, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

So whos gonna do it? Otherwise we get stuck in an editing conflict mess. Spoon 16:01, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I was about to suggest something similar. We should take a step back and approach this in a structured way; remember if we forget something now that means we'll later have to go over the pages again.
 * So, as a starting point I think we need 3 sample pages; one for settlements, one for a typical location and maybe one for buildings inside of towns. I think Evergreen Mills would make a good example for a "typical" location since it has multiple sections etc. Girdershade is maybe a bit small for a settlement example, how about Canterbury Commons instead? For buildings inside towns we could take one of the Megaton buildings like Jericho's house.
 * I'd suggest we make those sample pages first, then we discuss and improve them until we're satisfied. At that point we can then start identifying the individual tasks and start splitting up the work. Sound good? -- Porter21 (talk) 16:04, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I'll handle Catebury Commons. Spoon 16:05, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll take Evergreen Mills. -- Porter21 (talk) 16:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Anyplace if you give me the name of it I'll do it.Gameboy627 16:07, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay. But Jerry's House is mine. Nitty 16:07, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Instead of editing the actual article, I'd suggest to copy the current content and make a subpage of this project page, e.g. The Vault:Fallout 3 locations project/settlement for Canterbury Commons. This way we avoid other people editing the sample pages. -- Porter21 (talk) 16:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Good idea. I need to go somewhere for a few minutes. Sorry. Spoon 16:10, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

D'oh! Tell me that after I edit the page! ... Nitty 16:16, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm a little stuck with what to do with the 'Inhabitants' section of catebury. Should I blend it into the description sentence? Or leave it as is? See what I've done so far. Spoon 17:19, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd leave it as is. --Sentinel 101 17:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * RefID's are added in the infobox. Just use "|refid=" .--Sentinel 101 17:23, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Leave it how it is now, or how it was? Spoon 17:23, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd simply list them (without descriptions), same for the quests. I'd also include a list for the buildings (even if they do not have own articles yet). -- Porter21 (talk) 17:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Alright, a list for inhabitants and buildings, with links and no description? Also, what can we do about that monsterous 'notes' section? Spoon 17:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Notes should be kept to a minimum and should be merged in the respective sections if applicable. We should also check how much of it is actually relevant and whether it really belongs in the location articles. For instance, the majority of the notes in the sample article are actually more related to the Superhuman Gambit quest and not Canterbury Commons. -- Porter21 (talk) 17:39, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

When adding refIDs for location, the box with cellname isn't displayed. Strangely, when there are no RefIDs listed, it displays just fine. Is this a bug or somethin'? --Sentinel 101 17:43, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If you're referring to the Arlington Utility, it's because that template didn't support the cellname yet (it uses Template:Connection, only Template:Location has the "cell" parameter). I'll fix up Template:Connection and Template:District. -- Porter21 (talk) 17:52, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not just Arlington Utility. See Arlington Library or Abandoned Tent. They use Template:Location, and it doesn't work there either.--Sentinel 101 17:56, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems like the parameter was named "cellname" there instead of "cell". I've now set all of them to use "cell", i.e. they should now show up if you purge the page cache. -- Porter21 (talk) 18:03, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Settlement
I think it's about done. Anything I missed? Spoon 18:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The cellname is missing, but for some reason it isn't listed under Cell ID, so I can't add it myself. Someone's going to have to look it up in the GECK. -- Sentinel 101 18:17, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added the Canterbury cells. Exterior cells are always a bit hard to determine since they have no real names.


 * I'll go over the settlement article in a bit. I need a break :) -- Porter21 (talk) 18:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't sure with this one, mind. Spoon 18:40, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

So, we use that as the basis for all settlements? Spoon 19:03, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll write up some general guidelines tomorrow but in general, that's the layout we'll be going for. I just want to make sure we're all on the same page before we start editing :) I know you guys are itching to start but it's better to throughly establish what we want to achieve and then do it all in one go, otherwise this will result in a mess later on. -- Porter21 (talk) 19:07, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Identified tasks
This is a list of things people should look out for: Feel free to add. -- Porter21 (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sections: The location articles should follow the section layout found in the sample articles. This includes naming (including capitalization) and order.
 * Notable loot: These sections need to be reduced to actually notable, i.e. rare and important loot.
 * Notes: The Notes sections should be kept to a minimum. They should be merged with other sections where applicable. It should also be checked whether there's a more suitable article for a given note - for example, notes relating to characters or quests should be in the character/quest article, not in the location one.
 * Infoboxes: should be checked for completeness. A lot of articles are missing the  field, for example.
 * Cell and Ref IDs: Are largely missing and need to be added.
 * Local maps: Need to be added where they are missing.
 * Check for bad images: Articles with poor quality and/or missing scenery or map marker images should be noted on the project page (in a table). These problems should then be addressed.
 * Navboxes: Check for missing navboxes and add them where applicable. This mostly concerns buildings which are part of towns, these should have the town-specific navbox.
 * Bugs: Reduce to bugs which are specific to that location. No general FO3 bugs which may happen anywhere, no bugs which relate to quests or characters in that location.

'Faction' field? What do we put in there? Is it Talon company, Enclave... etc? Spoon 19:14, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep. Raiders, Feral Ghouls, Talon Company etc. -- Porter21 (talk) 19:17, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd rather wait until we get exactly what we want to do together, before I try anything. Spoon 19:23, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

As from the Notable Loot section, I saw an article which just had Tin Cans, Carton of Cigarettes and Pre-war Money. That's not really necessary. SuSpence95 (Talk) 19:23, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeap. A lot of people really have no idea what is "notable" and hence simply start listing everything. And once someone has started listing non-notable stuff, others will start to add to it until the whole section becomes a cluttered mess. -- Porter21 (talk) 19:47, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Progress box
Added one, I'm not sure about the categories. Change as needed. Spoon 19:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll do a per-page one tomorrow, split up in tasks per page. This way everybody can take on tasks he/she wants or is able to do and someone else can do the others. -- Porter21 (talk) 19:46, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Progress boxes added along with instructions. If you think I need to clarify the process or the tasks, please let me know. -- Porter21 (talk) 10:06, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't we devide them into the 'types' they are? To avoid confusion. Also, it means rather than just 'Base FO3' category, it's divided up. Means people can focus on 'settlements' or 'dungeon'. Spoon 10:11, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Feel free to rearrange them if you want. I was too lazy to do it :P -- Porter21 (talk) 10:15, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh, it's fine as is. Just one thing, do metro stations and power stations count as 'Dungeons'? Spoon 10:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeap, every indoor area where you encounter enemies is a "dungeon" basically. Or the other way round, all articles we're working on are dungeons unless they are a settlement or a building in a settlement. -- Porter21 (talk) 10:23, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

'Typical' category.
You've lost me. What exactly makes a location typical? Nitty 00:34, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Porter says Evergreen mills is typical. So anything like that. I think Fort Bannistar falls under that heading. Spoon 00:38, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Evergreen Mills has a Behemoth. That's not typical. Maybe the 30-odd power stations? Hmm... Nitty 00:41, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Porter says he's making a list tomorrow, of all the things that need to be in it. Take a look at the link futher up, the one for settlements. Spoon 00:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

And by 30 some power stations, you mean like 10 right? No way there's 30. SuSpence95 (Talk) 05:13, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I was a bit tired yesterday, happens when you've been working on setting up the projects etc all day ;) What I meant by "typical" is a good example for that type of location. In principle, you can divide locations in FO3 in three types from my point of view:
 * Settlements. These typically include other buildings, have merchants and usually non-hostile NPCs.
 * "Dungeons". Areas which are populated by enemies where you can find "treasure".
 * Buildings inside of settlements.
 * I chose Evergreen Mills as an example for a dungeon-type location because it makes a good showcase for most of the sections an article about a dungeon-type location should have. It has an exterior section, multiple interior sections etc. If I had chosen Sunken Sewers, for example, it would not have made for a very good example; it only has one interior section and that's it. You can always cut down the general outline for articles which do not need certain sections but if the sample does not have most of the typical sections, it's useless as an example :) -- Porter21 (talk) 06:36, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Sample layouts
I've started to put guidelines and layout summaries on the project page. I'd appreciate any feedback - let me know if something's unclear, if you think something should be done differently or if I've forgotten something. -- Porter21 (talk) 06:38, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * One thing I'm personally still unsure about is where to put the background/history section. -- Porter21 (talk) 06:50, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

List notes
I can understand RHO camp, it spawns after the Waters of Life and all, like every other Enclave camp. Minefield doesn't make sense, the area has a few scripted zones where Arkansas takes potshots at you. Nitty 14:28, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You've lost me there. No sense in what regard? -- Porter21 (talk) 14:31, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, shouldn't a weird GECK script like Arkansas warrant a separate cell? Nitty 14:34, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, now I understand what you mean. What Sentinel101 meant was that the name/ID is missing from the Cell ID list, not that the location does not have one in general :) Every location has a cell name and ID, even ones which "spawn" later. -- Porter21 (talk) 14:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC)