Talk:Automatic rifle/Archive 1

Accuracy in VATS terrible?
I have 80 guns skill and I cannot hit anything in VATS for the life of me. I was wondering if Im just terrible or has anyone else noticed this? - Bot

I have the exact same problem only I have 100 in guns and also meet the strength requirements, i have commando and sniper so it's not as if my vats accuracy should be terrible yet even at close range i couldnt hit a wall if i was pushing up against it (sarcasm).... and i'd also like to add that my accuracy with it hideous outside of vats aswell, funnilly enough completing dead money using a police pistol is not an experience i fancy repeating 81.156.11.136 04:38, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

I think it may very well be dead money itself, with 100 energy weapons and some related perks I cannot hit anything in VATS with the holo rifle. Im kind of getting tired of using the police pistol too. - Bot

I dont use VATS much, but outside it all you have to do is spray and pray. It does a lot of dmg so it will kill anything pretty quickly. --Drldrl 17:59, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Which wouldn't be a problem If there was more than 40 rounds of .30896.18.76.204 18:03, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

They REALLY should have let you keep the ammo from the Mojave, and The Casino Chips are spread to thin to really count, theres a LOT of bugs with the vending machines(No Suprise)Would it be to much for you to be able to use the ghost people Suits? The Poisin clouds are Rediculious. Lenov 18:17, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

To Lenov: The whole point of not being able to take the suits off is to add to the allure of the Ghost People, as well as not give us an excuse to walk through the cloud, thus negating Dean's companion perk.

Browning Automatic Rifle
Would it be OK to add to the trivia section of this page that this is the Fallout equivelent of the M1918 BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle)? It is for all intensive purposes identical to it, down to magazine size and (almost) caliber. Jazzlizard 03:35, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * No. Nitty Tok. 03:35, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Why not? It's not a vague combination of weapons, it's an easy-to-see replication of a BAR. 67.186.107.60 18:41, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Because people have opinions. it will just cause a flamewar or a Troll Fest about why this weapon looks like this weapon, we treat it as its own weapon. Lenov 19:26, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well thank you for taking the time and explaining it. Makes it so you don't sould like a douche.--70.71.118.55 00:47, December 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Delving too much into historical comparisons invites interpretations that aren't usually relevant to gameplay.--http://brianranzoni.com 10:26, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Request for removal
of information regarding the automatic rifles comparison to the real life bar. I refuse to remove it myself as this will cause another flame war Thanks

References to the Browning Automatic Rifle
how about we keep the links to the real info on the talk page under a separate section to make everyone happy--Ohnoitsthecopz :) 23:17, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

Seriously? We can't record the fact that it is a BAR?

I understand the whole flamewar thing, but aren't we just robbing people of information?

What does it matter? The gun in game isn't advertised as the real world weapon, so it doesn't matter what people think it is or isn't or what it does or doesn't look like. This is to keep the articles uniform without personal opinions, speculation, usage strategies, or other irrelevant statements taking away from the article itself. Sure, the gun is obviously based on the BAR alright, but here we keep that off the main page unless necessary. Mediocrity Goggles 03:30, December 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * That excuse is absolute garbage. It's a wonder how imfdb.org stays civil, amirite? 69.196.154.139 13:15, December 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I didn't want to start anything here, I just thought I'd remembered seeing similar sections for other weapons/items. Jazzlizard 17:13, December 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's just inconsistent to include notes about song references and not about weapon references, especially when the carbon copies are blindingly obvious. 206.248.174.213 20:35, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why not simply say "The creators based the appearance of the in-game Automatic Rifle on the real world BAR but in no way is the in-game Automatic Rifle a real world BAR"? We could also include a link to a website with information about the BAR. I agree people in this situation are being ignorant for the sake of avoiding conflict, which is ridiculous.--70.71.118.55 04:45, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope. If we do it for one weapon, we have to do it for every weapon, and then people will argue until they're blue in the face over whether Fallout 3's American AR is an FAL or a G3 or a Modelo C, and whether the Chinese AR is an AK47, or 74, or 102, or an AN94. Not gonna happen now, nor ever. Nitty Tok. 04:56, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep. You've just confirmed it: ignorance for the sake of avoiding conflict. As mentioned above, it's a wonder how IMFDB doesn't implode. No. What you've described will not happen, as evidenced by an entire site that uses such discussion as their foundation. If you're going to bring up pages like the 9mm as a rebuttal, the discussion degredation is just people like you whining about how discussion/content does not belong, not the actual content. I say in the spirit of the wiki, we submit this to a vote and recommend a policy change, or at least add it to be more explicit in the wiki guidelines. There are obviously enough a lot of interest in this topic. 206.248.174.213 05:52, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for calling me ignorant, I appreciate that. I'm sick of removing references to the AR-10, to Ruger's MKII, to the Winchester 1887, and I honestly doubt that such a movement would get any sort of clout behind it because I'm not the only one sick of arguing about it. Nitty Tok. 14:46, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) We're not calling you ignorant. Please read more carefully in the future. We're calling this silly policy ignorant.
 * 2) If you're sick of removing these references, that just proves even more so that there are people interested, since people are constantly adding these types of notes. In other words, there is undoubtedly going to be a clout behind adding real life references. You're already being outnumbered here!69.196.138.224 16:03, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * If Sawyer came out tomorrow and said "Yeah, we based Dead Money's automatic rifle on a BAR", then we would add it to the page. If he said "Yeah, we wanted a .308 Tommy Gun", then we would say that's it's based on the Tommy Gun, regardless of what it looks like. We are not going to speculate, and we have no idea what the automatic rifle is in in-game terms. It's already not a BAR because it uses .308, while the established Browning auto rifle uses .30-06.
 * The anon above mentioned that we list song references, but not weapon references, and that's because the songs are listed by name, unlike the guns. Nitty Tok. 16:07, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now that's just silly. We don't need the dev's quote to say nightkin's are blue. Similarly, we don't need to their word to say this gun resembles a BAR. They may base this gun off a Tommy Gun, but if it visually resembles a BAR, it visually resembles a BAR, and would not be unfitting to include such information. Additionally, noting visual similarities is not speculation.--68.68.107.26 23:05, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is so speculation. What says that this is a Browning Auto Rifle? What if it was developed by H&K, or Remington? Saying "This gun is a BAR!" without actually knowing whether it's a BAR or not is speculation. Nitty Tok. 23:40, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * "It visually resembles a BAR," does not discredit other possible manufactures/designers/artistic inspirations, nor is that statement a speculation. 206.248.178.56 00:15, December 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * So, if it's okay to say that this gun resembles a BAR, is it okay to say that the CAR resembles about 40 different variations of the AK47?
 * Quick answer is no.
 * This discussion is done, we are not going to change a policy that makes us informative to a policy that'll have us listing every little piece of nonsense trivia we can think of.

Nitty Tok. 00:55, December 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow. A loaded question filled with red herring.
 * Your biased quick answer is short-sighted and tangentially relevant. A more suiting statement is to say, "If it resembles a BAR, is it ok to say it resembles a BAR?"
 * Yes. (I can make up questions too to fit my argument!)
 * It obviously is not a "piece of nonsense trivia." It is not nonsense because many of the reverts are because of this, and this type of discussion turns up in other weapons' talk pages. People obviously care. It is not "every little piece" as potentially adding one line, at max, to every weapon's page, is hardly throwing in the kitchen sink, not to mention that you've committed another fallacy: slippery slope.
 * No amount of your colorful literary adjectives and logical fallacies will change that fact. 206.248.178.56 01:14, December 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have no idea where you're trying to go with this argument. "Logical fallacies"? I'm applying your presented policy change to the rest of the wiki, like such a policy change would be applied. I don't appreciate being intellectually "berated" or whatever you think you're doing, but I'm pretty darn sure that you aren't going to listen to me.
 * There will be no mention of real world weapons here, nor on any weapon pages save those that are actually titled as being the weapon they resemble. Done. Final. Capishe. Over. Nitty Tok. 01:23, December 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let me highlight your logical fallacies (in no disrespecting way, but in an educational way)
 * Loaded question: You specifically design a biased question with the CAS, which was completely countered by my loaded question
 * Red herring: You attempt to draw confusion in with the fact of numerous AK variants
 * Slippery slope: You think this piece of trivial will somehow draw in every other piece of non-sense trivia
 * In any event, we (our side) have already established that
 * It's not speculation to note visual resemblance - accounts for Mediocrity Goggles's comment
 * Official input is not need to confirm visual resemblance
 * It's not nonsense, since people are interested, as noted by the numerous comments and attempts to include such information across such pages
 * This type of information will not destroy the wiki's talk pages, as evidenced by sites like imfdb
 * The only argument you (plural) seem to have is:
 * It is speculation (Already covered by our first point)
 * Policy will not change because it will not
 * End or argument, forever
 * Reason seems to be highly in favor on our side, so I would suggest at least a trial of letting weapon resemblance notes. Perhaps, disallow note that are like
 * CAS is an AK-105.2 with Magpall handgards
 * But allow something like (if suitable)
 * CAS visually resembles AK family of assault rifles
 * This should cut down on the tacticool shitstorms. In cases like this page where there is unanimous agreement
 * Automatic rifle visually resembles the BAR
 * This would greatly enrich the wiki content. 206.248.178.56 02:28, December 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * "This should cut down on the tacticool shitstorms."
 * Will it? Our current policy doesn't cut down on the number of people who add weapon references, so why would a new policy get any different treatment? I'll bet that you certainly didn't read this policy of ours, much less any of the other policies we have. Who's going to force people to follow your policy? Not you, I assume?
 * In addition, we used to allow weapon similarities (so some "trial" is nothing new), and this was the whole reason we enacted the policy against them; people would argue until they were blue in the face. Nitty Tok. 03:21, December 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're totally missing the point. Nothing is going to stop people from adding weapon references because they like adding them. To cut down on our work on removing them, we'll allow them to stay; rather than enforcing a high maintenance dam, we'll build a run-off for the constant inflow.
 * Will it? It might. I said should, and note on the type of reference I'm advocating. I'm not returning to the previous broken formula, but a modified version. A more general type of reference that should reduce the amount of fine detail serial-number-comparing blue-face nitpicking.
 * And what's with all these personal attacks? More logical fallacies? Geeze. Calm down. It's not like I'm trying to change Steyr's to assault rifles. 206.248.178.56 03:36, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

How about we all shut the fuck up and LET IT GO. By the way, Nitty, your reverse psychology is terrible.
 * I'm not using reverse psychology, I'm giving reasons as to why we shouldn't list it as a BAR. :/ Nitty Tok. 17:23, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let it go? Does that mean letting go of this rule, or letting go of these references? You can't have both. Think before you post, or GTFO. Also, please sign your comments.--68.68.107.26 23:07, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to add to an already controversial topic, as it will no doubt aid nothing, but isn't the point of the fallout wiki to deliver information pertaining to fallout games? Whilst I personally do quite enjoy reading trivia I wasn't aware of, as it doesn't pertain to the fallout world, in my own opinion it doesn't belong on the article. As an example, would you expect to find information on an actual browning automatic rifle wiki article stating that aesthetically it looks like fallout new vegas' automatic rifle? No, because despite being being both true and an interesting piece of trivia, it contributes nothing of relevence. 81.156.11.136 06:05, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

1. Its none of your buisness if I sign my comments or not. 2. Nitty, I was talking about that "Thanks for calling me ignorant, I appreciate that" tidbit. 3. Here is what I meant by let it go, If it looks like a BAR to you, fine. But that doesn't mean you should put it in the trivia section, for the sole reason that a wikia is a center of learning, and it needs cold hard fact. I'm not siding with Nitty, but its just not a good idea to put it.

Even though I greatly enjoy reading trivia, I personally don't think you should add it to the page because as the guy above said, it is not a fact. Besides if you add something controversial like this, people will always disagree causing discussions about a topic that is not even relevant to playing the game. If you want to do that, go to the forums.--BlitzKrieg-BoB 17:42, February 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Regarding all of the argument above, and regardless of policy, the BAR reference doesn't assist in gameplay or informing the universe of the game. It is meaningless data here. If people care that it looks like this gun or that gun, then put it into some sort of behind the scenes wiki.--http://brianranzoni.com 10:34, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Strange wording
"is fairly accurate at range, although has a noticeable spread." Anyone else think this should be changed? 65.95.9.226 19:54, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

Updated Code
Using a Modding program I found the Code 0200A7A9 Which allowed me to have the Automatic Rifle. Figured it should be put here. Darkshadowmark
 * The "xx" is the mod index number of Dead Money. You have something loading between the Vegas .esm and Dead Money. If you don't, it would be 0100a7a9.
 * And what did you do to your Xbox that let you do that? Nitty Tok. 00:57, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

@nitpicker of the Wastes

I have a modding program specifically for the game that Allows me to Replace an item with something that i want, Like a 9MM pistol for a 12.7MM pistol. using a USB drive and a Xbox save reader on my computer, i Mod my game save and use it.

@nitty, its because of the pre-order dlc's like the classic pack which would take the 01 slot for base id's so dead money pops as 02XXXXXX and any of the pre-order dlc is 01XXXXXX

Iron Sights Off?
Is it just me, or are the iron sights off on the gun? Shots are noticably above where the iron sights aim at, and usually a small bit to the right. It hits just fine in third person or while hip firing though.--65.60.189.43 11:48, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

It's spread is rather large, that might be your problemGrand Cookie 20:23, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

Might as well be a melee weapon
Not in the literal sense mind you (although bashing something with a gun that big/heavy probably would ruin someones day rather nicely) but with the ungodly spread and inconsistent aiming, the only times I've been able to use it effectively was literally point blank (aka: melee range) in VATS where the spread still caught the target. Head shots even at that range were iffy at best (with sniper, commando, high skill and str requirements), aiming for the torso seems to be the best way to go about taking things down....followed by hip-firing to take the heads off ghost people, or switching to the police revolver for the 'kill' shot. Kinda sad since its a truly brutal weapon, and back in the Mojave where .308 ammo is plentiful (along with hand loader ammo options) you could really do some serious damage if it actually hit what you were aiming at instead of leaving a person-shaped outline on the wall behind them like you see in old cartoons.

Also, wouldn't it make more sense to have it be classified as a heavy weapon due to the higher-then-normal strength requirement? It's pretty much on par with the LMG other then the pathetically small clip and different burst rate in VATS. 67.193.11.186 08:59, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Two requests to the devs, 1:Give it a wooden stock instead of the cheapass shitty looking tin one. 2:Reduce the spread so that it actually functions as a firearm. A spread smaller than the size of the Minigun's (about 1.7 degrees deviation) would be perfect. Preferrably in that order. --TJbrena 20:16, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

Not a BAR
It has a pistol grip, so it automatically is NOT a BAR. It could be an export variant, though. YuriKaslov 21:33, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

Heh, I actually never saw that before. I wish it wasn't there.--86.44.148.183 21:26, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

Inappropriate Locations of rifles
1. >>One can be found in Puesta del Sol next to a Dean's stash in a clouded area, in water.

The clouded area is located at in Salida del Sol Courtyard, which can only be accessed through Salida del Sol North.

2. There is another rifle located at a balcony in the corner of southeast of Salida del Sol So2uth, which has a radio on top of it.

Possible glitch.
Though I have not played Dead Money for a long time, beat it in the day it was out for the 360, I still clearly remember a bug. As you know, if you are not using three-shot bursts, the gun has horrible accuracy and large sway, giving it a large spread. However, when I modded the Automatic rifle, the high speed, instead of increasing spread, drastically reduced the spread and sway. Also a tip of usage, always try to crouch before you shoot. I always did and barely ever missed.-- 22:29, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

"lack of .308 rounds"
This should be removed, or at least amended with the fact that vending machines provide an infinite supply of .308 if the player picks up the appropriate access code at the police station. PeterFazekas 04:42, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Automatic Rifle vs. M1918
I know this has been argued to death, but as one who knows a good bit about firearms, I'd like to say my piece. The Automatic Rifle is nearly identical to the M1918 so far as I can see: the receivers are virtually the same, as are the magazines, sights, and stocks (the stock on the M1918A2 wasn't wooden). The only differences are a slightly shorter, two-piece wooden foregrip (more in the vein of the Kalashnikov, as the BAR had a single-piece), and a slightly different barrel and gas tube (though they notably similar to those of export variants, such as the Polish 1928's).

--117649AnnihilativeRepentance 17:46, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

On top of the evidence that you and others have cited, I must add another similarity: the Automatic Rifle's comically ridiculous muzzle climb that makes hitting just about anything -- at least on purpose -- quite challenging (yet, like the BAR, it still manages to kill just about everything within an acre).

I'm a huge military history nerd, so I was all for debating what real world guns seem to be emulated in the game, but after reading through a few "debates," I am on now a proud member of team "Let's JUST SAY THEY'RE NOT BASED ON ANYTHING FOR THE SAKE OF THE COMMON GOOD."--Timfever 19:04, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

I'm a modder and I have the model file open right now. The name of the Automatic rifle's body section in the model is "BrowningRifle". It is a BAR, to the extent its model data even calls it a BAR. And this isn't even one piece, the automatic rifle has an odd branching structure, and the (extra, not normally found) node under which all the pieces (body, magazine, bolt etc) are organised is also called "BrowningRifle".

If this doesn't end this debate... Well then somebody has issues with being wrong. - (Unregistered and proud)
 * What the GECK uses to denote things and what they are in-universe are two different things. Should we change Lanius's role to "Legionary Bad Ass" because that's what he's labelled as? Nitty Tok. 22:26, February 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. (jk) YuriKaslov 22:30, February 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * I just checked, this isnt what the GECK calls it, its located within the actually mesh data and attached as a txt note for the node name. This is what the devs would have called it during its development and to me is clear enough that is what they based the design on. User avatar tag.gif Avatar talk.png 22:38, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

I'll have a shot at calming down the "omg it's a bar" people. If you want to be really precise about it, it's NOT a BAR. It's actually a mish-mash of at least two versions of the weapon, one being the Wz.1928 produced in Poland. PeterFazekas 04:42, March 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * The Wz.1928 is a modified BAR, however the gun in game is not a BAR until confirm by a canon source, until then it is a Automatic rifle. But there is strong evidence to say that the design of the Automatic rifle was based of the BAR (variant unknown). User avatar tag.gif Avatar talk.png 04:32, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

The BAR
if u want info about what this weapon could possibly be based on follow this link M1918_Browning_Automatic_Rifle--Ohnoitsthecopz :) 23:20, February 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Have you actually read any of the above? User avatar tag.gif Avatar talk.png 00:00, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

this kicks deathclaw ass
So today, i figure that I'd go to the deathclaw promitory and get the power armor that is there. Having just gotten the automatic rifle, I figured I'd test it out. I give old lazy ass boone the antimaterial rifle, and go to camp forlorn hope so i won't worry about the legion and boone's "issues". Well on the way boone decides he's tired and sits there no t swimming. I keep going. With a Un-modded autorifle and gun at about 77, wearing the 1st recon beret and assassin suit, and I can absoluetly destroy the deathclaws with basic ammo. I don't see why people complain about the spread. I had no problem taking out 3-4 deathclaws with a single magazine on medium. I don't see why people complain, with contreas you can easily get enough .308 rounds, and this gun shreads aeveryone. The alpha male took 12 Hollow point rounds at about 50 yards. --Icommandoxx 22:52, March 4, 2011 (UTC)icommandoxx(forgot to sign)

Yessir, I Like It!
I'm a PC user so I got on the Dead Money train a touch later. I finished the questline yesterday and brought two auto rifles back with me (no, I didn't min-max my first play through). Overall, I found it easy to keep it fed with 0.308 using the vendor code and chips. I just kept returning cartons and clothing, got the chip perk from Christine, and opened every container I saw. And when I discovered that I could trade in pre-war money for chips in the Casino itself, I made sure I traded all those damn gas bombs and knife spears for money.

In combat, it kicked Ghost Hunter booty. In free aim, just point the gun center of mass and with an 80 Guns skill and fittingly enough, the Center of Mass perk, I was dropping them in 5-7 shots. Its accurate enough againt single man-sized targets out to the game equivalent of 25 yards, and it worked against groups or in narrow halls out to about 50.

When I got back to the Mojave, I repaired them with weapon kits and gave one each to Boone and Cassidy (using a multi-companion mod). I just finished taking them on a run of Vault 22. So far, the NPCs use the auto rifle to my satisfaction. It's awesome to hear the ripping report as my companions blew Spore Plants and Mantises away.http://brianranzoni.com 10:51, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

This thing is powerfull!
Good Lord, this thing cut down anything in the game like butter, specially after the upgrade. It's a medium-to-close range weapon, everyone complains about the spread because this type of weapon it's not for using like a sniper weapon. It's funny that you hear the same complain all the time, if a weapon don't act like a "sniper type" it's a PoS, crap and so on.

Also, what's the purpose of using automatic weapons in VATS? There's an achievement in the game called "Just Point and Click" that translate very well how this kind of weapon behave, like the Automatic Rifle, Minigun and LMG. You simply go walking in the direction of the target squeezing the trigger. The Assault Carbine and Laser RCW are another weapons that I hear a lot of complain, these weapons ARE accurate if you fire in bursts. The M-16/AR-15/AK-47 have fully automatic mode available in real life, but try to shoot outside of burst mode to see where your accuracy will end. Brfritos 04:41, March 6, 2011 (UTC)