Forum:Aliens causing the Great War?

As I was playing mothership zeta I was collecting the captive reocordings. I didn't listen to any of them until I was finished with the add on. Once I got to recording 17 and I read from the subtitles of the nuclear launch codes. 38 ICBMs ready to launch. There was also a holotape saying they had no idea who started the War. This is just my theory.

That's a good point as why would the aliens go for the ICBM launch codes if they weren't planning nefarious deeds. Sasquatch99 01:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes Bethesda is saying fucking aliens started the war. Once again they prove that they have no regard for the canon or they're fan base. So fuck it, after all this time it turns out the the entire thing was really an alien plot to take over the fucking world! MZ is the biggest canon killer since that Lucien LaChance mod an the FO3 nexus. Sparrow475 21:03, October 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * No, they didn't. But Andrew Endicott was abducted WAY before WWII, so they just destroyed all of Black Isle's canon. :) Nitty 21:05, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

They didnt say Aliens started the war. It is just a alien captive recording. And if you look at the recording, the captive never gives them the code. Jack &quot;the drifter&quot; Vance 21:20, October 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * facepalm* I was over exaggerating for emphasis. I know they never openly stated it, but nonetheless they did imply it. Also Nitty, how did Andrew's abduction date destroy Black Isle's canon? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious here but I don't really see what this has to do with BI's canon. :/ Sparrow475 01:48, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * According to numerous Black Isle Fallout sources, the Fallout world only started to diverge after WWII. However, Endicott was abducted in the 1600's. Therefore, Bethesda says that the Fallout world and our world are not and most likely have never been the same. Nitty 01:52, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops lol. So I was missing something horrifically obvious. And either that or they're saying a man from Salem WAS abducted by aliens in the 1600's. It IS Bethesda. Sparrow475 01:55, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you know for a fact that one WASN'T? Records from then are spotty at best... 76.94.225.90
 * You make a good point but I think we better leave that alone unless you want a flame war about whether aliens are real or not.Sparrow475 00:18, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * WAAAAHHHH BETHESDA RUINS EVERYTHING THIS IS CANNON RAPE! Boo fucking hoo. Aliens were always part of fallout, and nothing in this clashes with the original canon, minus a few minor details. Might I remind you that no-one KNOWS who shot first, and that the alien thing makes alot of sense- Why would the Chinese launch the nukes while still running military operations on american soil? Why would the US launch while they were grinding the Chinese into the pavement? This was just one of the aliens many plans- Giddyup Buttercup invasion, releasing the Abomination, ect. Get over it, your just picking on Bethesda because you are a major BI fanboy that REFUSES to believe any game not by them can be good, after the Trainwreck that was FO:BOS. TM95 24.253.217.206 02:47, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Right? Nuclear weapons are pretty much only there so you can shoot back. Nobody really wants to make that first shot. They just want to be able to shoot back. Then again... Dr. Strangleove maniac generals willing to nuke everything into a glowing paste... I could buy that. At any rate, what's all this about "Ruining canon"? I'm sure there must be inconsistencies in the older ones. Didn't Fallout Tactics and BOS already kinda jack up our precious canon? I think the sort of canon consistency we're looking for here only exists in the table-top realm. Just be happy with your fallout pen-and-paper. MFToast - talk 01:52, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Right? Nuclear weapons are pretty much only there so you can shoot back. Nobody really wants to make that first shot. They just want to be able to shoot back. Then again... Dr. Strangleove maniac generals willing to nuke everything into a glowing paste... I could buy that. At any rate, what's all this about "Ruining canon"? I'm sure there must be inconsistencies in the older ones. Didn't Fallout Tactics and BOS already kinda jack up our precious canon? I think the sort of canon consistency we're looking for here only exists in the table-top realm. Just be happy with your fallout pen-and-paper. MFToast - talk 01:52, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Right? Nuclear weapons are pretty much only there so you can shoot back. Nobody really wants to make that first shot. They just want to be able to shoot back. Then again... Dr. Strangleove maniac generals willing to nuke everything into a glowing paste... I could buy that. At any rate, what's all this about "Ruining canon"? I'm sure there must be inconsistencies in the older ones. Didn't Fallout Tactics and BOS already kinda jack up our precious canon? I think the sort of canon consistency we're looking for here only exists in the table-top realm. Just be happy with your fallout pen-and-paper. MFToast - talk 01:52, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Aliens fireing the nukes makes no sense, why would they use our weapons when they had a death ray before we had nukes, also they were abducting humans before and after the bombs dropped so their main objective involved human abductions, not human annihilation. - RASICTalk 03:16, August 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * They were doing a damn good job of keeping themselves hidden; perhaps they didn't want to give that up. Perhaps Colonel Hardigan spooked them, and they acted to reverse technological advancement in a way that wouldn't indicate their presence. Perhaps they shaped events more subtly than that, causing the Resource Wars in some manner and shaping the state of the world as it was on the day the bombs fell, so that when they did set them off, it would be believable that it was one of the nations of the world, and not some other agency. Kris   mailbox  03:31, August 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Colonel Hardigan was most likely abducted some time before or very early into the war, after all no nation would want to have a high budget on space travel when fighting a war that big. - RASICTalk 03:37, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily, the Vietnam War was in full swing when the Apollo 11 mission got to the moon.205.188.116.68 04:03, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * As I said war that big, the US thought Vietnam would be a simple go in, push back the Communists and leave, nothing too long or hard. - RASICTalk 04:10, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I doubt that the aliens would act with haste, in whatever they do; they've been there since the 17th Century at least. So they see humans starting to leave the planet, leave the atmosphere at least, for short durations in the 60s or so, and start discussing the matter amongst themselves; they set upon a course of action that changes the political climate of the world - maybe they find a way to steal or destroy oil without anyone knowing, to help bring about the resource crisis; and in about a century, the world is right where they want it. They launch everyone's nukes, confident that even though many will perish, there will be enough for their purposes. I dunno it's all speculation. Kris   mailbox  04:32, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Imagine you're an alien. Oooh, Intelegent life, I want one. So you abduct one and then the goverment gets up in your face like give us the human so we can study it. So that happens for a while. Then people get into space. Crap these war obsessed creatures are looking for what has kidnapped thier people, what do we do? Destroy thier natural recources so they fight amongst themselves. Cool lets do that. So there is the recourse wars. Then the Alien leader is like what is going on. What, they are trying to kill us, no don't distract them, blow their asses off. So there is the great nuclear war. Then the survivors are trying to rebuild. Damnit, why don't they die, nevermind experiment with thier prey(why the brahmin are there), thier predators (why the radscorpions are there) and find their weaknesses. In short the aliens kidnap, get paranoid, cause world war, and try and find out why the people they tried to kill are still there. And all without being detected. Then the Lone Wanderer rapes their setup so they send reinforcements, that he rapes again. Then the alien leader just says fuck it all and tells everyone to just chill. Oh and did everyone forget about the death ray the lone wanderer stops from killing the world. They were indeed tryng to kill us off, maybe so they could have the planet, but gave up and tried to destroy it. Was that a rant? Add one to the number behind the + if it was for no the -.

Was it a rant? +1 -0 (I voted rant)- Yum Brahmin 17:59, August 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Now this has gone well deep into the realm of stupid. Aliens DO NOT fit the Fallout story. They're a nice easter egg and non-canon random encounter, but they do not fit. You know, there's this little thing called "leitmotif" in Fallout. It's the line "War. War never changes." Fallout is about the never ending conflict between humans, the fact that as long as we exist, we will fight each other for the same reasons. Whether it's ancient Rome and its aggressive expansionism, Hitler and his mad quest for power or the conflict between the Brotherhood and the NCR, every war that has been fought between humans has been about power and resources.
 * The Great War, in order to fit in with the estabilished motif, needs to be a purely human conflict to be a morally ambiguous, horrifying event. Adding little green men turns Fallout from a serious setting and hyperbole about the nature of man into a grotesque comedy. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 20:11, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Grizzly. The Mothership Zeta add-on was nice on weapons and the such, but really? Aliens do not want to have anything to do with humanity. They're far too advanced to want to cause wars. We are basically ants to them, and if they really disliked us, they would have blown the planet up instead. Nukey (talk) 20:16, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

You're right Tagaziel. On the other hand Nukey you are dead wrong. Imagine you are a mean kid and find an ant colony. First you'll play with them in a mean, cruel way (abduction). Then, once the ants went inside thier cave (or in this case entered your space, literally) you would make them kill themselves, if you could. Then, once that ceased to amuse you (or serve the purpose of stopping their "attacks") you would turn the hose at them (death ray). Then, a super ant (Lone Wanderer) stops the hose from firing by screwing with the plumbing (cooling systems). People are more advanced than ants, but our story's douche decided to mess with them anyway. Regardless the aliens shouldn't exist, so there. 69.99.180.36 23:49, August 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * But Aliens are not the mean kid, they are the smart kid, once they've abducted them they want to do tests, see what they are and what they can be made into, and then they want to store them so they have plenty to keep experimenting on, losing them would be a horrible blow to what they were doing. - RASICTalk 23:54, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Grizzly, I agree with everything but your last sentence. Although MZ's introduction of some larger power was REALLY corny and lame (Cornier and lamer than before), won't people always serve some larger force? For example, it may have been wiser to put humans on those space ships. You know, an enclave to the enclave. MFToast - talk 09:35, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's the point. Humans vs. humans. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 22:22, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Master was only human by a considerable stretch of the imagination. 205.188.116.68 06:01, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * He was a mutated human, but a human nonetheless, with understandable human motivations and personalities. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 08:40, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * If even a mutant as severely distorted as the Master registers as human, where is the line drawn between human and non- human? Would John Henry Eden, whose only claim to humanity is basing his personality off of those of the former U.S. Presidents, still be considered human because of this? If we ignore the matter of their genetic history, I think the MZ aliens are closer to humans physiologically and psychologically than Eden or the Master. 205.188.116.68 04:10, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aliens aren't in any way comparable to us, they're from a completely different planet, have a different biology, a different culture, goals and motivations completely alien to us, whereas Eden is a computer. The Master is a mutated human. Apparently you cannot understand that supermutants, ghouls and the master are all humans, albeit mutated. Just looking different doesn't erase the fact that you were originally a prime normal human. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 07:20, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Concerning Physiology- I am not ignoring the Masters human origins, I just think that his post- transformation form is more removed from a conventional human than that of the MZ aliens. The aliens are roughly the same size, have the same number of arms, legs, eyes, etc, breathe oxygen (which also implies that they're carbon- based), and have some form of circulatory system. The master is formless, has no manipulting appendages, and has a cellular structure so loose as to be able to absorb the cells of independent organisms and incorporate them into itself. The master was originally a human, of course, but, in my opinion, his present condition is more appropriate for comprison.
 * Concerning Physiology- I am not ignoring the Masters human origins, I just think that his post- transformation form is more removed from a conventional human than that of the MZ aliens. The aliens are roughly the same size, have the same number of arms, legs, eyes, etc, breathe oxygen (which also implies that they're carbon- based), and have some form of circulatory system. The master is formless, has no manipulting appendages, and has a cellular structure so loose as to be able to absorb the cells of independent organisms and incorporate them into itself. The master was originally a human, of course, but, in my opinion, his present condition is more appropriate for comprison.


 * Concerning motivations- Both the Master and the aliens have recognizable motivations. The Master's are those which can be found all to often in any history book, the promotion of a "master race". The Aliens are studying a different species and culture, just as we study the various organisms and cultures on earth. 205.188.116.68 04:57, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is my last post on the matter, as this argument has quickly lost its novelty. I concede that the Master has much in common with "normal" humans due to his lineage, but I argue that if you were to examine both the master and the aliens without knowledge of their relationships with humans, you would judge the aliens and humans to be the most closely related. I argue that, based on its many abstract antagonists, the Fallout franchise is based less on "humans vs. humans" and more on its broader version, "intelligence vs. intelligence". You may have the last word, if you so wish. 64.12.116.68 06:25, August 14, 2010 (UTC) (Same User as 205)