Talk:Shotgun Surgeon

Hm. I wonder, do the "multiplas" and tri-beam laser rifles count as "shotguns" for the purposes of perks that affect shotgun use? Schneidend 01:21, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Reference to Training Day?
In the movie, while using a shotgun against Ethan Hawkes character he says "You know im surgical with this." Thats probably not the exact quote, but I know he refers to his skill with a shotgun as surgical. Just thought Id throw it out there. BTW my first time leaving a message/edit like this, so forgive any mistakes. --72.160.251.230 04:48, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

Kill Bill, Vol. 2:

The Bride: You any good with that shotgun? Karen Kim: Not that I have to be at this range, but I'm a fucking surgeon with this shotgun. The Bride: Well, guess what, bitch? I'm better than Annie Oakley and I've got you right in my sights, so let's talk.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0378194/quotes

I'm watching the movie now, just added it! Hope it will stay! :)(kill bill 2) Terrorblades  - satan! satan!  22:21, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

KIll Bill got it from training day so yes, it is a reference to training day.

Tri-beam
I tested in game but the perk doesn't seem to work with the tri-beam laser rifle. I assume it only works with shotguns under the Guns category.

Confirmed in GECK too. Only affects powder-shotguns

SciFerr 15:08, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Better Criticals
Does this stack well with better criticals? It seems like an outside-of-VATS shot with both of these perks would be devastating.

I would say yes because unlike other weapons, shotguns fire ammunition that carries seven projectiles, all of which have a chance to cause critical damage.
 * Yeah, but they fixed the massive shotgun critical damage by making the critical damage for each shotgun very low. It's still worth taking Better Criticals, but don't expect to kill Primm Slim with a single sneak-attack critical headshot. :P Nitty Tok. 15:12, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Insane DPS
I did the math for Sharon Cassidy, who is a companion that has the Shotgun Surgeon perk and here are the numbers.

Shotgun Surgeon basically adds the -10DT spec to whatever ammo you are using, making it armor piercing. Shotguns have a very high DPS because each pellet in the buckshot has the ability to cause critical damage. So, if we use the Dinner Bell and Riot Shotgun as an example where we assume that the opponent has DT10 and that you are using the Shotgun Surgeon perk:

Dinner Bell (Enemy DT nullified)

Base damage 10.7 x 7 = 75 + 11 x 7 critical damage = 75-152 max damage

1.67 attacks per second = 125-254 DPS

Magnum Buckshot = 12.3 x 7 = 86 + 11 x 7 critical damage = 86-163 max damage

1.67 attacks per second = 144-272 DPS

Riot Shotgun (Enemy DT nullified)

Base Damage 9.6 x 7 = 67 + 10 x 7 critical damage = 67-137 max damage

4 attacks per second = 268-548 DPS

Magnum Buckshot = 11 x 7 = 77 + 10 x 7 critical damage = 77-147 max damage

4 attacks per second = 308-588 DPS

(588 DPS is slightly utopistic, where all 7 pellets from the 4 shots fired in a second, cause critical damage)

Now, if we compare that to the Anti-Materiel Rifle:

Base Damage = 110 + 80 critical damage = 110-10(enemy DT) / 190-10(enemy DT) = 100 or 180

0.45 attacks per second = 45 or 81 DPS

AP .50 MG rounds (with -15DT = enemy DT nullified and x0.95 damage) = 104.5 + 80 = 104.5 or 184.5

0.45 attacks per second = 47 or 83 DPS

The advantage of the AMR is that the damage is consistent whereas the shotguns have a damage range. I did not factor in that sneak attack criticals do double damage and that some perks like Better Criticals (2x damage) also enhance it even further but I think that the numbers speak for themselves if I did the math correctly. I'm not sure why slugs are said to be good when using this perk because then the number of projectiles are reduced from 7 to 1, which greatly affects the maximum damage. It should be noted that although the Sawed-off Shotgun fires 14 projectiles instead of 7, it also has a critical chance modifier of x0, making it far less efficient than the weapons that I mentioned above.

So it seems like the AMR with its higher base damage would be more effective against heavily armored opponents and that the shotguns do insane DPS as long as the enemy does not have a high DT. The bottom line is that if you intend to use any type of shotgun in this game, you will also need the perk because there is no AP ammo availalbe for these weapons.

Kill Bill 2
This is to others like me, who thought about adding Kill Bill 2 as to why this perk has it's name. people will remove it because apparently it wasn't part of it. People have tried to add it before, and it got removed. Terrorblades - satan! satan! 07:50, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

RE: Kill Bill Vol. 2
Quote:

"You any good with that shotgun?"

"Not that I have to be at this range, but I'm a f*cking surgeon with this shotgun"

-Ninjacat123