User talk:Calbeck5302

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-- Gothemasticator (Talk) 12:21, July 14, 2010

US Space command
Sorry, but this information is correct, please stop un-doing revision thank you. Sparky (Radio) 13:52, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

If it is correct, please cite the source data. The citations used do not actually contain any materials which support the claims.Calbeck 13:54, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I personally confirmed this with Tim Cain, and as I'm the founder of this wiki this is generally considered to be a viable source. I guess it can be marked with a canonicity template given that it's not actually mentioned in-game, but that was the Enclave's original backstory. The Hermes rocket, while the only one we know of by name, was only one of the spacecraft used in this project, not necessarily the only one. Ausir(talk) 14:03, July 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Understandable, but if that was the Enclave's original intended backstory, it didn't survive the development and publication process. It's of interest in terms of background regarding the creation process, but like The Burrows it does not mesh with the rest of the available fiction or other source materials.  I'd also point out that the Hermes-13 page itself expressly states it was built to take astronauts to Mars --- and then it was refitted for the mission to the Calbeck 14:19, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Bloomfield part of Van Buren is proof that while not mentioned in Fallout 2, this part of the backstory was not actually discarded. I guess we can mark this part with FO2CC, though. Ausir(talk) 14:07, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, but just as clearly it was not wholly adopted either.Calbeck 14:19, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Try Bloomfield Space Center. Read behind the scenes. Nukey_Fallout_Sign.jpg Sparky (Radio) 14:10, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, sorry, read before the war. Nukey_Fallout_Sign.jpg Sparky (Radio) 14:11, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done that. I'm looking at the design document itself.  No mention of any pre-planned intent to colonize space, or for the Vaults to serve as a test for how people in space would deal with each other.  All of that seems to be wiki authors making inferences to material which appears to have simply been a concept that did not make it to the actual design stage.
 * In addition, the "Before the War" reference makes no such claims either. It says exactly what I just got done saying about the Mars mission, B.O.M.B. refit, and subsequent Enclave refit.  Also this: "all other space and rocket facilities already used up their resources constructing the missiles" (for the B.O.M.B.).  Elsewhere, it is noted that even lesser rockets (such as those used for the Moon shots) were converted to ICBM use.  There's just no basis for an evacuation/colonization fleet without the Enclave having a wholly separate and independent space program building the things --- and if they did, they had no need to hijack Hermes-13 in order to save their leadership.Calbeck 14:19, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done that. I'm looking at the design document itself.  No mention of any pre-planned intent to colonize space, or for the Vaults to serve as a test for how people in space would deal with each other.  All of that seems to be wiki authors making inferences to material which appears to have simply been a concept that did not make it to the actual design stage.
 * In addition, the "Before the War" reference makes no such claims either. It says exactly what I just got done saying about the Mars mission, B.O.M.B. refit, and subsequent Enclave refit.  Also this: "all other space and rocket facilities already used up their resources constructing the missiles" (for the B.O.M.B.).  Elsewhere, it is noted that even lesser rockets (such as those used for the Moon shots) were converted to ICBM use.  There's just no basis for an evacuation/colonization fleet without the Enclave having a wholly separate and independent space program building the things --- and if they did, they had no need to hijack Hermes-13 in order to save their leadership.Calbeck 14:19, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * In addition, the "Before the War" reference makes no such claims either. It says exactly what I just got done saying about the Mars mission, B.O.M.B. refit, and subsequent Enclave refit.  Also this: "all other space and rocket facilities already used up their resources constructing the missiles" (for the B.O.M.B.).  Elsewhere, it is noted that even lesser rockets (such as those used for the Moon shots) were converted to ICBM use.  There's just no basis for an evacuation/colonization fleet without the Enclave having a wholly separate and independent space program building the things --- and if they did, they had no need to hijack Hermes-13 in order to save their leadership.Calbeck 14:19, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

I edited the Enclave article accordingly, noting that the space program info is based on Fallout 2 cut content. Ausir(talk) 14:36, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, though I feel it would be more appropriate in terms of full disclosure to note that the material comes directly from Tim Cain and does not actually appear in any design documentation or FO Bible entries.
 * It's noted so in the references. And it did appear in the original design documents, it's just that the FO2 documents were never publicly released. Ausir(talk) 14:39, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see, that's where I erred then. The entry was referencing the FO2 docs, and I could find nothing in those which are available to support. Calbeck 14:45, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyway, I think both the Enclave and USSA articles should be clear enough now. Ausir(talk) 14:50, July 14, 2010 (UTC)