Forum:Brotherhood of Steel arseholes

Is it just me, or are the Brotherhood of Steel nothing but a big gang of pussies? You get all this crap from them how they do not have enough manpower to recover their comrades bodies, and how they were ostracised by their brethren for deciding to protect the innocent wastelanders from hostile forces, yet whenever you go to the Citadel, there are literally dozens of them wandering around doing nothing.

What the hell are they doing standing around the laboratory all day? Making sure no one is stealing test tubes? Or ensuring the scientists and lab technicians turn off the computers at the socket when they're done, and don't leave them on 'standby' all night?

For something to do, I think I'm going to go and wipe them all out, just for the hell of it.

I've already cleaned out Fort Independence by murdering all the Outcasts to death, and that was pretty easy...

Malkatraz 13:14, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel is lead by filthy traitors IMO. They should stop worrying about the Super Mutants and focus on their real goal: gathering technology. That's why I support the Outcasts, who are not in fact 'outcast' - they chose doing their job over helping a bunch of stupid wastelanders. PlasmaFox 14:30, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Why would you kill the Outcasts? They're the only Brotherhood members I see patrolling the wasteland.  --MadDawg2552 15:25, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno. A lot of people think it's fun to kill everything in sight. I don't. PlasmaFox 15:29, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

OK, fair point regarding the Outcasts being fine upstanding characters compared with the BoS ballbags, however the only reason I embarked on my murderous rampage thru Fort Independence was because they all went for me when I inadvertently used the key I'd pickpocketed off the guard on the overpass (I'd been trying to get his Gatling laser) to get into the Fort.

I first did a runner, legging it over the horizon with lasers and 5mm calibre bullets whizzing past my fleeing ass until I was out of range, went home to Megaton, patched myself up, had a snooze, hit-up Wadsworth for some of his purified water (I'm sure he's selling me back my own piss), and then headed back to the Fort for another look (it was a few days later). They were still angry at me, so I decided to take the Fort by force. I got some lovely armour and weapons out of it, but I do regret the whole experience. I'll do it differently next time, I promise!

Malkatraz 16:28, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Heh... accidents happen. =)  --MadDawg2552 16:36, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I dislike the outcasts, they get shit done true.. but they are so mouthy! user- KTO!

Im suprised no one cares when i kill henry casdin from a nearby cliff with a gauss rifle,i mean come on! He leads the mouthy bastards but yet no one cares he become my next dinner?

Wait... the Outcasts are fine upstanding characters? What game are you guys playing? The only reason they're 'patroling' the wasteland is so they can strip out all the tech for themselves. At least the Brotherhood is trying to kill off all the damn super mutants. Besides, you can actually get the brotherhood to treat you with respect. Help the outcasts, and they try to screw you out of your share of the loot. The outcasts can kiss my ass, and stay out of my way. --Stedh 18:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Look, let's think it like this. You are in the Army, and your platoon/whatever is being sent on a mission by the higher ups to go destroy the enemy bunker. Along the way, your CO decides to tell everyone to stay in a village indefinitely to protect them from invading Chinese communists. Replace Army with BoS, your platoon with the Capital Wasteland detachment, and so on. Do you think that's the right thing to do?


 * The Outcasts are separate from the BoS because they don't focus on protecting the Wastelanders (who will all die from mutation and radiation poisoning anyway) from Super Mutants. They stick to their one, true goal: finding technology. They don't want to hoard it for themselves. They want to work with the western BoS to get Owen Lyons off his high horse. They're the good guys. The CWBoS is corrupt, no matter what their intentions are, good or bad.


 * Not only that, but the Outcasts do treat you with a meager amount of respect after you complete the Anchorage simulation and bring in enough technology for Casdin. He'll even let you wear the outcast armour without taking it - think of it as being an honorary Outcast.


 * So next time you think about popping a cap in an Outcast's ass, think again. They're not "evil" or corrupt. They are the pure strain. They're the ones that are doing their job instead of being deviant traitors. They're the true Brotherhood. Not those pussy ass losers hiding in the Pentagon. PlasmaFox 18:16, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Except that the western elders allowed Lyons to stay. They just won't support him.  Lyons is still the recognized commander of the BoS.  Until the western elders say otherwise, Lyons is still in charge.


 * Second, the only ones they want to share technology with is the western BoS. Which, mind, they still consider themselves a part of.  So, basically, they want to share ... with themselves.  That's called hoarding.


 * Third, Casdin, McGraw, and Olin are the only ones who'll even consider treating you halfway decent. The rest will only not be asses because Casdin says you're ok.  Don't fool yourself, they still think they're better than you.  Bet Casdin's approval doesn't stop Sibley and his boys from trying to kill you, did it?  Maybe there's a reason why you get fingers off the outcasts.


 * Finally, I don't know how you justify calling the CWBoS "pussies hiding in the Pentagon". The CW brothers are the ones fighting the Super mutants and the enclave.  The outcasts run into the city looking for tech, but they don't stay there long.  They spend most of their time scouring the wastes fighting mole rats.  Oh, scary.  --Stedh 20:15, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Lyons' Brotherhood is a bunch of pussies. What do they actually do? Nothing. They just maintain the Citadel and two outposts, shooting mutants from time to time, wasting their resources on a pointless crusade, letting technology be picked apart by scavengers rather than collecting it and preserving for the future. They are incompetent, stuck up and most of all, absolutely useless.
 * I prefer being talked down to by real professionals, rather than hang out with a bunch of idiots with delusions. Shaur M. S. Grizlin 22:37, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

The whole Lyons Brotherhood vs. Outcasts argument is stupid because it's never going to end. I think Lyons and Casdin (and now McGraw, looks like) need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that if humanity is going to rebuild itself, they need to collect technology and protect settlements. Besides, Lyons' Brotherhood is better because they do both. While they do focus on protecting people, they are also partially fulfilling their original orders with the Arlington library detachment they have. The Outcasts are just assholes with a superiority complex. They're not patrolling the wasteland, they're looking for technology to recover. Ooh, I'm following orders. My black and red armor makes me a big walking target. I am a total badass. Please. Regardless of their childish schism (their missions really do not conflict, it's just their pride getting in the way), I'd say the Outcasts are better business partners. You go clean up the wasteland and bring them your loot, and they'll give you necessities. Ammo, RadAway, Stimpaks. What else do you need? 75.39.249.241 01:32, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Except the Brotherhood's goal is NOT to rebuild humanity. They're there to preserve the remains and make sure all is not lost, for themselves. They're isolationist, they're mostly intolerant of outsiders, they're zealotous and secluded. Back in the original Fallout, the Vault Dweller was sent on a suicide mission, -on purpose-. The BoS over there knew (or so they thought) he'd die, because they ARE assholes. The only reason the CWBoS doesn't send Wastelanders into the DC Ruins to get torn up by Super Mutants is because Lyons decided that they need to be "protected".
 * The Outcasts are no better or worse. So what if they're arrogant dickheads and big walking targets? You have to have balls to be hated by half the Wastes and feared by the other half, and still stroll around in the open with nothing but a thin sheet of power armour saving your ass from some knight's laser rifle. PlasmaFox 01:53, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I support the outcasts as well, even if they can be mean if you arent wearing their armor, but regardless, i do everything they ask of me, I even join their squads in the wastelands and attempt to assist them in their travels, I really wish however that I could truly join them, and I don't like the BoS because they left their cause, I mean, their original purpose was to find the tech (which is what the Outcasts are doing) and they abandoned this cause to "save" the worthless lives of the Wastelanders, many of which are really stupid, and I see why the Outcasts can doubt the people of the wasteland (including me), but I think after all the work I've done for them that they should let me join. And, if the BoS could complete their mission they could try to save the people with their new tech, but......... their too busy trying to stop super mutants, and they cant even do that, oh I wonder where the mutants are even coming from they ask, welllll, me, alone, found their hideout in a vault, which, if they had done their original job, they would have found out by now, and the radiation surrounding the place is no excuse, because they know how to get into it through little lamplight, but they wont do it, and who cares if the kids wont let them in, they have an ARMY for god's sake, just run in there guns blazing, who cares if their children, they shouldnt have been blocking their way! Even when I told the BoS where the super mutants are coming from they say, great job! and I sat there, waiting for them to mobilize to destroy it, but no, lets just sit there. Anyways, the Outcasts are doing their job, and I would much rather support them than the stupid BoS. Britton 20:02, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but the Brotherhood can't kill children, because that's bad. No, let's completely forget that you can dismember and explode people into a pile of gory chunks, that people say "fuck" constantly, that you see both of your parents die before your eyes, that you can sleep with multiple people in the game, and that there are nude mods for both adult -and- child females. Killing or hurting children is -bad-. PlasmaFox 07:13, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

To be fair they both are jerk-offs to you... but the outcasts have cooler armour and better tech, but the normals, have the citidel and liberty prime. the brotherhood have gone local, and the outcasts continue their origional mission...so would you say that the outcasts are actually the real brotherhood and Lyons' Brotherhod the outcasts?OutcastBOS 22:58, 6 March 2009 (UTC)OutcastBOS

The BOS may have abandoned finding tech but it's for a noble cause. the outcasts are real assholes because they talk down to you calling you 'local wildlife' and crap. That aside both factions are freakin annoying because they both hide in a building talking shit to eachother trying to be better than the other and on the odd occasion they go out to strretch their legs and get massacred by a bloatfly. i'd rather hang out with the freakin enclave cos they have a mission and they're doing theur best to stick to it...even though they hide out in a freakin cave. so summed up: if its wearing power armour its hiding in a building or cave and its got a big set of haters and fanatics Mr snip 11:45, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I like them both, even though the outcasts are douchebags. However, the BOS are saving people and scavenging tech as well. Hell, they're holed up in the pentagon, they're probably still finding tech there after 30 years. Of course, it's a divided effort, so they're not scavenging as much as the Outcasts. I think it's kind of stupid they split up at all. If I were Lyons, I would have made an order devoted to finding tech and an order devoted to saving people, so they can do their job, get support from the west, and save the wastelan all at the same time.Broeman 12:09, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I generally follow one rule while I roam the wastes: Bother what bothers me. If a deathclaw decides to rip out my guts, he's going to have to fight for it. If raiders think I am an easy target, they will be proven wrong. If some dickhead in painted power armor thinks he can just walk up to me and say: "Shouldn't you be banging rocks together?" without repercussions, I am going to tear his head off and decorate my house with it. The Brotherhood Outcasts are bastards in the true form: They don't bother about anything else than their goal. Plus, they do have some nice armor that I don't mind taking off their dead bodies.

And what is all this about the BoS sitting locked up in the Pentagon Building with their thumb up their asses? They are actually working against extreme odds and two strong enemies (the rest of a shadowy government section with metal fetish AND the anarchistic, retarded, horde-like offspring of a pre-war virus). It is thanks to the BoS that the entire DC area is as it is: Without them, it would be MUCH worse... like Three Dog says: "Give them your thanks, or even better, some ammo!" Plus, they do have superior firepower to the Outcasts: Where the Outcasts only have smart-ass attitude, the BoS has a gigantic robot that makes Optimus Prime look like a thrash can with inferiority complex in comparison. AngryNorwegianDude 12:54, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Even though most people don't like the Outcasts, you gotta give them credit... i was walking outside of the Talon Company base and I saw two Outcasts with Gatling Lasers and a Gutsy walk up to it, the Talons started to attack them and the Outcasts wiped them all out, the two both survived and the Gutsy was critacally injured. do you think two of Lyon's BOS could've done that?OutcastBOS 21:06, 7 March 2009 (UTC)OutcastBOS
 * Nope... But Liberty Prime could have, you know, phased their asses into next week while yelling: "Communism is a crime against humanity!" Come to think of it, THAT would have been awesome! AngryNorwegianDude 21:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

hmmm... Youre right, Liberty Prime is one piece of sweet-ass tech that the BOS Outcasts don't have, but if they did, they would be without a doubt the coolest branch of the BOSOutcastBOS 18:20, 8 March 2009 (UTC)OutcastBOS

liberty prime was originally supposed to be drivable. you were supposed to use it to attack rivet city which the enclave had gotten working.Maccy Man
 * Yeah, right. And there is an M60 at Paradise Falls, too. And pigs can fly. Quit filling the forum with bullshit. AngryNorwegianDude 16:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

look at the fucking special edition guide book retard it talks about it there.Maccy Man

No, it doesn't. I have the guidebook. You're just making up bullshit, like with the M60 at paradise falls. Besides, the guidebook is made by Prima, not Bethesda. They don't know shit about development and what was supposed to be in the game, they just wrote a guide about what was actually in it. And also, why the fuck would the enclave hole up in Rivet City? There's nothing useful at all there, since the purifier is at Jefferson Memorial. Now please stop making shit up and posting it here, because we all find you incredibly annoying when you do that. Broeman 20:43, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I support the Outcasts completely, yet I didn't destroy the Citadel in Broken Steel. Callahan's Magnum wasn't quite appealing to me, even though I would've loved to bash Sarahs face in. Besides, I see them protecting Wastelanders outside of every Fort. Just patrolling, being cool, collecting tech. Damn that Brotherhood. --AlbinoTitan

This argument is dumber than the "console wars" it's a GAME people a GAME think for a minute both groups are programmed AI in a GAME neither one is "better" or "tougher" because they arn't real isn't even real. just enjoy the game and quit getting mad at it 24.255.86.193 20:44, 5 July 2009 (UTC) i think the bos are a good thing to happen to the cw if it wernt for them helping the people all people whould be SM and the game whould be over befor its starts allso if the outcasts saw a raider killing a wastlander and saw a pice of tec next to them thayd kill them bost and take the tec opps for got to log in b4 i sighnd lol--Xxuberdood 23:00, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * When was the last time you saw a Lyons' BoS patrol out in the wastes, protecting people? http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 23:05, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. They just hang around in their safehouses. At least the Outcasts wander around a bit. Lord Spoonfield III 23:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah but usually when I play it is in my best interest to kill any type of Bos That I see that I can get away with because I don't mind how my Karma is.To me,There just corpses with fancy equipment that I want.The outcasts are Jerkoffs but they are not always held up in a building.They wander and even if it is only for Tech,If they see a wastelander getting killed,They will fight.All Lyon's BoS do is sit up in a High tech building with alot of equipment that I want and think there saving the wastelands,when everyone probably going to die anyway.It seems that the Outcats are looking for tech to survive longer but it doesn't mean there going to "Horde" it.If they were smart,They would get that equipment to settlement's that might actually have a chance like Megaton or Tenpenny tower.If the BoS really wanted to stop the SM's they patrol alot of the major settlement's.Maybe even Clear the Metro Tunnels for easier access to places.The Enclave are just some stupid retards who think America is still a great nation and they are just a bunch of high tech dumbfucks.--ZeroPro 05:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

It's funny how the people who support the (CW) BoS either understand the moral standpoint, or bring up things from previous installments. I liked the BoS in the other Fallout's main stories, yes they do send you on a suicide mission; but because of that mission I did get the Enclave power armor. In Fallout 3 yes the CW BoS collect tech, and so do the outcast, but I'd say the "outcast" (who agreed do have a superiority complex) are the assholes. all they want is the tech where as our new BoS does try to rebuild, if you have played the game to the original ending you should know that with project purity, and protect the people. As for those who say they sit in the base all day and do nothing, have you really ever defended a main base where you DON'T have an unlimited supply i.e. are not using cheat codes; you would have a large force there so as to keep it protected. (you imbeciles) I have also been wandering around D.C. and have ran into the CW BoS plenty of times so yes they do go around, you should try walking instead of "fast traveling" everywhere. So in my opinion the new BoS our CW BoS are doing a better job; because they are not only following the original collect tech orders, but are also helping out the wasteland. spawnsos
 * Oh, sure, except there are no human settlements in downtown DC, only the GNR (Three Bitch's pet project for some reason supported by Lyons' retards) and supermutants, Lyons' white whale. Lyons is an incompetent fool, who lost track of what's really important. Outcasts stick to their mission objectives, are professional and help the people of the wastes by eradicating any creatures they come across in their technology hunt.
 * Therefore, the Outcasts are those who truly protect the wastelands. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 00:43, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Well it just seems that Lyon's think that Purifing the water wa going to save the enitre wasteland but there are barely any good human settlements and the downtown D.C. had almost none so you pretty much gave water to all the enclave and raider's that are out there killing off any human settlements.--ZeroPro 06:22, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

(After BS)CWBoS protect and supply wastelanders, wipe out the enclave, and raid all thier tech, and will probably overtime become humanity's best hope for revival.GodPlageon 07:32, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Here's how I see this argument. Collecting technology is good and all, but what good will that do if no one is around to use it? Alas, what's the good of protecting the people, if they have no chance of survival without the tech? So basically, I see it as a draw, even though both are helping, they have their own ways of doing so. 172.129.90.198 07:26, 12 July 2009 (UTC) the bos allso look for tech just thay dont use all there resorces looking thay make it there main job to help the people and thay do soo by makeing sure the super mutants dont over run the whole waste land wich thay whould if there was no1 with the means to stop them--Xxuberdood 11:34, 12 July 2009 (UTC) allso how do i put a space between mine and some1 elses post--Xxuberdood 11:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Then tell me, how did the people of the wasteland survive for 180 years without Lyons' Retards? http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 18:15, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

We're not just saying survive we are saying rebuild. So now who's the retard? Play The Pitt DLC and do the evil campaign an ask Ashur about his armor then about the BoS maybe it will help some of you simple minded louts who look at the now and not the the big picture or what's next. spawnsos.
 * Uh, if you haven't noticed, Ashur was part of Lyons' detachment that scourged the Pitt, he wasn't a member of the Outcasts. Lyons is Captain Ahab, hunting his white whale. He is doing nothing to help the wastelands - if you haven't noticed, it's the Outcasts that scour the outer wastes and purge them of Supermutants, whereas Lyons' soldiers just hunt mutants in the ruins, where nobody lives and nobody cares about. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 23:00, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I never said Ashur was part of the outcasts. I was talking about how he says that when he was in the BoS they were doing nothing to help the people they were only helping themselves. And on them only hunting muties in the ruins; there are way more of them in the ruins than in the wastes. spawnsos.
 * But there are no human settlements in the ruins of DC. It makes no sense to actively hunt them if there's no one to protect, unless you are obsessed with their eradication. The Scourge of The Pitt happened after Lyons' shift of focus too, so your argument is, at best, severaly flawed. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 12:41, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I think we all agree that the outcasts are assholes and the CWBOS are dumbfucks Boom problem solved and we are all happy The Lone Afro 15:22, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I think Lyons' goal, Grizz, is to contain the super mutant threat in the confines of the DC ruins, if not completely eradicate them. Without Brotherhood intervention, as Three Dog says, the mutant might have completely overrun the explorable area of the game and beyond. Ultimately, though, I don't understand the love for the California BoS and their vaunted hunt for technology. They don't seem to have an endgame for putting all the technology they find to some purpose. The organization is an isolationist, elitist tech cult, and worst of all, as Ashur said, they're too damn lazy to do anything of value. Hopefully New Vegas will take place after the Brotherhood has finally crumbled and you can find a storehouse full of catalogued technology the player can use to help turn Vegas into a sprawling new metropolis. --DGoose 08:18, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * But that's the point of the Brotherhood of Steel. They're not a goodie-two-shoes paladin order, they're an organization dedicated to the preservation of mankind's progress. If you played Fallout, in the canonical ending the BoS becomes a major research house, helping the NCR estabilish itself. Ashur's words apply only to the East Coast Brotherhood and since they come from before the split, to Lyons himself.
 * About the supermutants, pray tell, how did the Capital Wasteland survive for 180 years without Lyons' men? That's right, they easily did, Lyons' white whale isn't as much of a threat as he thinks it is. Owyn is basically throwing resources and people into the meat grinder of his own obsession, whereas the Outcasts salvage mankind - one, two, ten, hundred villages full of primates aren't worth forsaking thousands of years of humanity's development.
 * The West Coast Brotherhood is loved because they aren't a generic goodie-three-shoes organization, they're a professional, highly trained order dedicated to technology. If they were typical good guys, helping everyone and without peer, they'd be much more mundane and much less memorable. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 09:15, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hm, I didn't know about Fallout's ending for the Brotherhood. I played Fallout 2, but can't really get into the combat system and decided not to even bother with the first game. That's fairly interesting, and definitely improves my estimation of the Brotherhood from my experiences in FO2 and FO3. However, I don't necessarily want them to be the "good guys." They are definitely a memorable part of the game as they are. I don't begrudge them as a player playing the game, but as a person and as my character who is a diehard "rebuilder" I can't help but find them to be as lazy and pointless as Ashur does. Progress requires action, and simply collecting technology doesn't implement it in any meaningful way other than to keep it in good condition. If they had an endgame in mind that I knew of, an ultimate goal that utilized the technology they've collected, then I'd have to re-evaluate my in-character opinion. Until then, their only use is providing me aid in fighting off Enclave fascism in Take It Back! and Broken Steel. And, of course, the technology they're preserving means I'll occasionally find a Knight with a gatling laser to steal. --DGoose 21:49, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Funny you say that, as rebuilding-wise, Enclave is the best bet on the East Coast. Augustus Autumn is a good leader and he wants to lead the wastelands, not exterminate them, as examplified by him wanting to activate the purifier to provide the Capital Wasteland with fresh water at Enclave's behest. Sure, they might be a little fascist, but then again, democracy only works in developed countries, not states struggling to rebuild themselves. By destroying the Enclave, you're undermining whatever rebuilding effort might take place on the East Coast. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 22:20, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm going to have to disagree on this point. The Enclave isn't the only option, though they are a pretty good option as far as pure efficiency, ambition, and determination go. My character envisions the American Wasteland becoming a very loose affiliation of city-states, similar to the ancient Greeks. Places like Megaton, the Ashur-run Pitt after it no longer needs slave labor en masse to function, NCR, Underworld, the Commonwealth, and other settlements that are thriving instead of just getting by will be points of light in the darkness of the blasted landscape. The Enclave wants total control, and wouldn't ever relinquish it without a fight. If the Enclave truly established itself like they nearly did towards the end of the FO3 main quest, that fight could become unwinnable. Democracy is indeed not an option for any kind of "New United States," but that sort of closely knit coalition is not what my characters in the Fallout games try to achieve, and the Enclave is the other extreme that is also not acceptable. --DGoose 00:30, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Correction: the New California Republic is not a coalition, it's a federation of towns in former California, far more advanced than anything on the East Coast. It's by far the most powerful state in the west, able to wage full out war against the Brotherhood of Steel. With that out of the way, I still think the Enclave would be far better as the sovereign of the East Coast, as Autumn is not a fanatic and would likely create a fascist, yes, but quickly developing state.
 * The Enclave has Vertibirds, advanced defensive and offensive technology, access to pre-war stocks of equipment and data as well as an efficent communications network. It would restore order and prosperity quickly, estabilish trade routes etc., leading to an unprecedented development of the Capital Wasteland and surroundings.
 * While noble, I don't think a Greek-like loose coalition is good. If you remember history, the citystates continuously undermined each other and hampered the development of any coherent state. And then their asses got kicked by Alexander the Great, whose short lived reign brought along a development of peace, prosperity, science and arts. Now, substitute Greek cities for East Coast settlements and Alexander for the Enclave. See my point? http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 10:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

What would be better is if the outcasts get back together with the Lyons BOS and use the people of the CW to give them tech in exchange for safety and shelter and possibly medical care and the option of joining and if they prove themselves worthy some might be allowed to join and with enclaves downfall there's gonna be a lot of tech around but not enough hands to properly ultilize it. This way they will have more troops and tech coming in and more resources to figh the super mutants. This is of course influenced by the midwestern BOS ( i really hope they havent fallen on hard times cos there my favioute faction
 * Casdin is a much better leader. Owyn Lyons is obsessed and ineffective, whereas Casdin is efficent and open for certain methods of cooperation with outsiders. Not to mention that the Outcasts are more or less the original West Coast crew, while most of Lyons' Brotherhood is made of local recruits who are not up to snuff. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 17:21, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I think we're all at agreement. West Coast Brotherhood FTW. AlbinoTitan 01:21, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Meh. They're a good organization for the game world. It's great they're not just another holy order protecting the weak always and forever, and are more neutral. In-game, however, I find their lack of an ultimate goal makes them lazy and impotent. Collecting technology should be a means to an end, not an end in itself. --DGoose 02:33, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ending of Fallout 1, again. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 10:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Until I see that ending having a concrete effect in one of the subsequent games, I question its supposedly canon status. If the Brotherhood really worked so closely with NCR, then why is the Brotherhood in decline in FO2 and FO3 while NCR is flourishing? --DGoose 07:32, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

This may be because the West Coast BOS is quite a small organisation seeing as it is elitest and pretty much isolates it self. Plus it is very hard to join

PlasmaFox, Casdin does not let you keep Outcast armor. When I first went to Fort Independence to trade some stuff I had Outcast armor equipped. It was confiscated from my inventory. The C.W.B.O.S. are doing what the Brotherhood should have been doing all this time. The Brotherhood Of Steel was supposed to gather technology to help rebuild civilization, not keep it for themselves. The problem is, as everyone knows, when a new leader takes over, he can change the priorities of his followers. This is what happened to the BOS. At some point in their history, someone assumed the position of High Elder and decided that the BOS' directive should be to acquire pre-war tech and nothing else. As far as the Outcasts are concerned, they deserted Elder Lyons and the Brotherhood in general. If you look at the Brotherhood's history, despite his change in priority, Elder Owen Lyons is still recognized as an Elder by the West Coast BOS, he's just not getting any additional support. I would think that, even if they managed to make contact with the West Coast BOS, the W.C.B.O.S. would brand the Outcasts as traitors because they deserted Elder Lyons and stole weapons and tech.--Ryker6122:59, April 20, 2011 (UTC)~3:14pm 4/20/2011

The Outcasts are the true brotherhood, and there doing there job, could you imagine what the wasteland would be like if The Raiders found half the technology both them and the Lyons detachmentment have lol Imagine Raiders in the posesion of Liberty Prime? Levi Lauson 12:08, April 21, 2011 (UTC)