Forum:FO3 vs FONV: Atmosphere

Having played through both games, I must admit that I preferred the DC Wasteland over the Mohave. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed New Vegas, but I felt that it lacked the true post-apocalyptic atmosphere that Fallout 3 had. In FO3 you really got a sense of the constant struggle to survive and the total isolation that a wasteland would truly have. NV has civilization. Governments even. It's not so much a wasteland as just another desert. FO3 had dangers everywhere you turn. NV you could walk around virtually freely (provided you hadn't pissed of the locals). Where FO3 had desolation, isolation, and decay, NV has growth and community. So as far as a true feel of a "wasteland", I'll have to go with DC. D3fiant80 20:23, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

I concur. --Epsilon616 20:32, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

I agree as well that the CW is more bleak than compared to the Mojave. Remember that Mr.House managed to defeat most of the nukes that where targeted on the Mojave & Vegas areas. This meant less radiation being embedded in the landscape. Also, the Colorado river is an uncontaminated water supply as compared with the DC wasteland who have nothing but irradiated water all around them. That is why Project Purity was so important, no pure water, no chance for life to begin again. DC must have got plastered with nukes as it was the nations capital and as such, would have had hundreds targeted on it while Vegas & the Mojave didn't appear to be as important although House does say that 77 nukes were targeted on the area. Captain Taipan 03:59, June 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree, CW was GRIMDARK. But as far as its atmosphere goes (which was great), it was totally defeated by poor writing, unbalanced gameplay and boring enemies populatic great locales. For these reasons I will pick New Vegas over Fallout 3 in terms of atmosphere, because while Fallout 3's "struggle" was defeated by the amusement park design of the CW, the Mojave feels like a place with real struggles, real problems and high stakes. Fallout 3's struggles were... uninspired, at least. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 05:40, June 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the overall storyline has some very large holes in it indeed, FO3 that is. One of the most obvious to my thinking is this: if the Enclave had an orbital weapons platform available, why didn't they nuke the BoS at the Citadel BEFORE they stormed Project Purity? Military doctrione often goes with hit the enemy hard with artilery first then go in and mop up. However I've loaded up some mods like FOSE & FWE for FO3 and that's made the game a whole lot better as it has the elements like Hardcore needs for food and drink for the LW, more options for interacting with your companions plus you can have more than one. There are heaps of weapons now available and I start to think that if amateurs on home PC's using the GECK modding program could come up with these brilliant expansions, why can't the original programers do so? I think Bethesda's programmers are a bit slack and not as creative as they could be. If I were the CEO of Bethesda, I'd be offering contracts to the guys who came up with the game enhancing mods and sending termination notices to the dead wood in the programming department. Captain Taipan 10:18, June 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * I have to say, the reason why Many people (myself included, at times) found Fallout New Vegas buggy was because Obsidian actually tried to do something different. Rather than doing a straight copy of Oblivion with guns like many speculated Fallout 3 to be, they actually tried (and succeeded in more cases than people like to believe) in making something that screams role playing game. Programmers always live by KISS (Keep it simple stupid) but often that leads to some boring and uninspired work. Obsidian often go against this, but while stability suffers, enjoyment may not 5t3v0 11:31, June 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Absolutely! FO:NV was a huge step forward as compared to FO3 and I think the code monkeys at Obsidian borrowed heavily from some of the mod projects that had come out for FO3 before NV was released. I've read an article on Ars Technica which was about "crunch time" in the gaming inustry, that awful period where a developer/company are up against a looming deadline and have to go all out in order to get the game ready, often dropping items that intially looked great but they just can't get them to work in time. This is why I think that a very smart move would be to directly contact the serious modders out there and offer them a short contract to develop and improve on aspects of the game, which is what they do already anyway. Captain Taipan 11:55, June 20, 2011 (UTC)

In my opinion, D.C was a better map in the way you could move around a little more, as for new vegas where invisable walls dominate. But i think overall their pretty much tied, in fo3 you can get a perk every level, as opposed to NV which needed 2 levels. this really left me hardly any choice for perks since i had to get my special up as much as i could. There's a lot more but I'm sure the differences are obvious. User:Denis517 06:07, june 20, 2011 (UTC)

Both games, for me, had their strengths. Where Fallout 3 put you in a true struggle for survival in a desolate, absolutely destroyed world, New Vegas put you in the driver's seat, giving you the choice for how humanity in the Mojave would begin again, with survival as a lesser theme. Whether you picked NCR, House, Legion, or none of the above, each had their own plans for rebuilding the world. FO3 is about survival, so much so that your main objective is to just secure a clean water source for the area. NV is perhaps the next chapter in that, once you are past survival, and even to the point of deciding what is the best way to start over. So, in a way, I'd say that New Vegas was a sequel to Fallout 3, in the fact that it represents a new chapter in the rebuilding process. That being said, the atmospheres as far as story-wise are completely based on opinion. Some liked the survival element better. I know I did. For me, the feeling of sneaking my way past scores of raiders in the Super-Duper Mart just to get some food for myself, taking down my first super mutant, one that was armed to the teeth with a rather large minigun, with a 10mm pistol, these experiences of sheer terror, pitted up against the odds, are the ones that make Fallout 3 my favorite game ever. I loved New Vegas, don't get me wrong, and I am by no means a Bethesda fan-boy, but Fallout 3's expansiveness and scope set the bar very high. Bangarang! 00:29, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * For me, killing a supermutant with a hunting rifle killed the atmosphere. I was freaked out when I saw the supermutant, remembering how tough they were. Then I killed him at level 5 with a hunting rifle. Atmosphere went out the window. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 06:18, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

Meh, in my opinion, the only place Fallout 3 held a good atmosphere was D.C. and yes while D.C. is the big cheese of Fallout 3, Bethesda could have done plenty better with the area outside of it. That's where New Vegas really pulled it off for me. The towns, both destroyed and inhabited, really gave off the atmosphere/character I was looking for in Fallout 3. All the towns in Fallout 3 felt either the exact same, or it didn't feel like a town/former town at all. Unorthadox 01:41, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

In terms of atmosphere, I really liked the feeling of vulnerability in F:NV, namely the high level opponents that are near to you at an early stage, Mr nomadic here, in his eternal lack of wisdom, decided to go North as I could see quite a few map markers, and there I am, these red lines appear, and they're jerking violently from left to right on the radar, and I'm thinking 'hello cheeky, what have we here? I don't recall any foes moving in such a manner in FO:3', so I wander in, and then 'do my eyes deceive me? what pretty coloured wings!' I didn't survive very long, it was the intensity of the cazadors (so very many cazadors, with the stinging and the poison and the badness) attack that will remain with me for a good while, just that feeling of 'what the f*ck just happened?! woah woah woah, I should have heeded the warning of the keep out signs' That set the tone for me, whereas with FO:3 I recall the hardest foe I encountered at an early stage was molerats near to Megaton, hardly the same thing, I recall it feeling so much more gentle at lower levels, whilst it felt as though I'd hit the ground running on F:NV. What killed FO:3 for me was the traversing through so many fairly samey looking metro tunnels to get to the good stuff, and whilst I agree that there were less invisible walls, all that happened in FO:3 was to put massive amounts of debris in the way to stop you from getting to point B from point A, okay, a visual barrier, but an incredibly ugly one all the same. 'OOH MORE GREY CONCRETE! NICE!' So, probably F:NV out of the two. Tactictoe 19:00, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Well, the Fallout Universe is hardly realistic in terms of Post Apocalyptic (PA) civilization. Because of this, I am somewhat conflicted. From a Visual Sense: DC is a much more realistic view of a PA world only 200 years after a total nuclear war. Where as NV is a more realistic view of the Fallout Universe. Aesthetically, DC gives a much better sense of desolation and struggle. NV is utopia in comparison, clean water everywhere, blue skies, vegetation everywhere, towns that aren't made up of a few metal shacks, etc. Personally, I preferred the dreary look of DC better, as it made me think there had actually been a total nuclear war. NV simply doesn't impart any of that, instead NV looks more like a run down future vision of Las Vegas, not a Post Apocalyptic one. From a Gameplay Sense: Bethesda dropped the ball on this. Megaton is crap, Arefu is crap, Cantebury Commons is crap, Girdershade is crap, Little Lamplight is crap, etc. While the world should look devastated, the towns/settlements should look like they realistically hold more then 2 people and should make sense as to why they exist. Girdershade would not last more then a week in the CW, same with Arefu. Megaton is supposed to be a major town, and Cantebury Commons is supposed to be a major trading hub, yet neither come anywhere close to living up to those ideas. Then there is Little Lamplight............sweet Buddha what the hell were they thinking? Where do the kids come from? Why do the Super Mutants who have spread all across the CW, not realize these kids are right next door ripe for the taking? NV one the other hand has settlements which are more believable as to supporting life. Some suspension of disbelief still needs to be applied in terms of how many people would actually exist, but not as much as with CW. The 188 as a trading spot makes sense, Nelson makes sense, Nipton makes sense, Vegas makes sense, Freeside, etc etc. All of them pretty much make sense as to their validity as a settlement and their connection to other settlements. 32.97.110.55 00:33, June 29, 2011 (UTC)Guywithnoaccount

-would like to add that Fallout 3 also loses quite a bit of its own realism, when in all reality DC would actually look a hell of a lot worse in a nuclear war, with much of the city probably vaporised into nothingness. The Centre of the Blast turns Metal from a solid straight to a gas, and the yields/amount of warheads launched on the locale should have a bigger effect. The white house not being there is accurate, but other landmarks, such as the pentagon should be wiped out completely with very little trace, or even basement levels left.

-I have a feeling that Fallout canon had DC completely wiped out, but they didn't mention it anywhere, or that info was retconned out my Bethesda's ignoring of many minor, yet major in the long run, details. 5t3v0 07:49, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

Realism and atmosphere are two different things. DC "feels" like a post apocalyptic world, where the Mohave feels like just a vast desert. Granted, in the real world DC would've most likely been completely leveled (as would any metropolis), but that doesn't make for very interesting fiction. Don't forget that that's what Fallout is: fiction. It's not meant to be completely realistic. It's true that some of the settlements in DC are questionable. But unlike New Vegas, DC doesn't have towns that are still standing and ready to be resettled. Frankly DC is more realistic it that sense. The people in Mohave are like, "Wow, there's an intact town. Let's just move in." In DC, some people had to actually build they're towns from scratch. Big deal that Girdershade has only 2 people. Don't you think people would prefer to be on they're own instead of in a community? I suppose the biggest point of contention is Little Lamplight. Agreed. More explanation was needed on how they were able to survive so close to the super mutants and how new kids would come to settle there (Obviously the original kids would have all grow up and left the town empty). But I accept Little Lamplight because it is interesting. It's part of the fantasy world. There's a point where "realism" has to give way to the fantasy. If you want true absolute realism, go play Call of Duty or something. On a side note: Not much to explore in the Mohave. There's another cave with a few raiders/critters in it. Another 1 room shack? Wow. Most of the time I can't scavenge (or "prospect" if you prefer) because it's claimed by one faction or another. And I had to walk a half hour to get there. I couldn't tell you how many hours I spent just exploring one section of the Metro in DC. And after 200+ hours of gameplay I'm still discovering new things. D3fiant80 18:28, July 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Another note. In FO3 you got a real sense of history from the many pre-war artifacts that you could find. There were so many terminal entries and holotapes that you could get a true sense of what the world was like before. And with that in mind, wandering the wastes became all the more interesting. Searching for remnants of a lost civilization. There were stories about Chinese spies and serial killers and people struggling immediately after the bombs fell. You could learn so much about the world you were in. In FO:NV there is none of that. It's almost like the pre-war world never existed. It's barely discussed. Most of the history is quest related and speaks mostly to the hear and now. Nothing really describing the Mohave before or immediately after the war. There is very little to support the world beyond it simply being there. The only history is from Fallout canon, which even then is hardly mentioned. It's like New Vegas was just put there for you to play in and there is no other world beyond it. The problems in the Mohave are mostly from vague exterior sources and are complicated by politics. In FO3 the Enclave and super mutants lived in DC and were a unquestionable threat. I believe that FO3 created the true depth of an entire world, where FO:NV is just there for the sake of playing there. D3fiant80 18:01, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

i like the feel of fo3 the best. as others mentioned. but i also like the old west setting and complicated politics of fonv. if only they could combine the survival and destruction of d.c. with the government/politics and free will of the mojave. some areas complete chaos and some parts rebuilding civilization. hoping the best for the next game. JimmyDreznaut017 23:19, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

Fo:NV had too many boring towns and locations, its still a good game but, i dont think it could match the feeling i had the first time i played Fallout 3 , i remember when i first played fallout 3 and i wasnt playing the main story so i could explore , and i came across raven rock in the edge of the world , and despite the fact that i couldnt enter it it was still very interesting , and it added to the mystery of the wasteland ... people in new vegas were too civilised , where was the chaos that the apocalypse brings ? But in fallout 3, it showed an utterly crushed civilisation full of people dying of radiation as well as being killed by the many horrors of the wasteland , people barely surviving in tiny  settlements full of rickity little houses , people murdering each other a packet of crisps , and all sorts of chaotic stuff
 * I guess you missed the memo about the war happening over two centuries ago. And the memo concerning the hilarity of Fallout 3's GRIMDARK world. New Vegas is a very realistic and plausible portrayal of a post-apocalyptic society two centuries after the apocalypse. And boring towns? Sorry, that's just bullshit. New Vegas has far more variety than the urban/suburban Fo3. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 13:10, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * If anything, it should be more settled, more civilized, less "there used to be a civilization here" and more "there's a civilization here". The US grew from thirteen states along the coast of the North American continent to a vast nation - fourth largest in the world, now - spanning the entire breadth of that continent, in less than two hundred years. Granted there's still radiation to account for, and vast areas of dangerous ruins, and mutated horrors not seen in the real world, but even with all that I think a group with vast numbers and advanced (at least, real-world modern levels of small arms tech) weapons should be able to spread quite rapidly against those who lack guns or numbers. The NCR should be all the way to Pittsburgh by now providing their advance wasn't blocked by other as-yet-unrevealed civilizations that sprang up in the wake of the Great War. -- 13:36, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Technically, NV has the more "realistic" atmosphere, even for global thermonuclear war. Now, the US Government planned for two different types of nuclear explosions: Ground Bursts: Used for military installations (which also include civilian airports, shipyards, basically anything that can be used for military purpose). The weapon explodes at ground level, creating thermal and radiation waves, as well as a shit-ton of fallout. Air Bursts Used over population centers. A hell of a lot more preferable relatively, as you would only have to deal with the blast, initial radiation, and EMP effect. Mostly the EMP. NORAD estimated that over 90% of the SOVIET nuclear weapons aimed at the US were air-burst type warheads. So, "good" news for survivors. Even with the megaton "city killer" ICBMs developed during the cold war, the residual radiation faded after about 2 weeks. By "faded", i mean diminished enough for survivors to leave shelters and stay out for hours. And even with the proper precautions, short trips can be made out of shelters up to a few days after the event. So what am I saying here? After 200 years, the planet would essentially be back to normal, ala New Vegas. However, FO3 has a much more entertaining atmosphere, more suited to the weeks and months after the Great War. And, i understand, the series is fiction. Doesn't mean there can't be any realism :P

If anyone is interested in checking out my data, i got it all from the US Army Survival Guide.--NCRandproud123 21:20, October 16, 2011 (UTC)

@D3fiant80, actually, there are relics of the old world, terminal entries and the like. Black mountain is one, hell, there is a terminal entry that is half finished due to the writer succumbing to radiation poisoning, with the next terminal entry being an account from the super mutant marcus, who felt sadness for the people who died there. I'm pretty sure there are some other examples, but can't think of them. 58.111.200.145 10:35, October 17, 2011 (UTC)

Oops, forgot I wasn't logged in. last one was me. 5t3v0 10:41, October 17, 2011 (UTC)

I liked the Capitol Wasteland because when you first exit you can hear the wind of a post-apocalyptic wasteland and lots of rock are scattered about,the structures are highly detailed to the point of a destroyed house with debris and crumbled buildings,and how interior is from destroyed to partially clean and like there was nothing to use and few population to use whats left.Also on NV most places are clean and intact like the buildings where Mr.House is and around the whole Mojave.Sacred Mentalist 9:29, October 17, 2011 (UTC)