The Vault talk:Item page overhaul project

History behind items.
Hey all. Porter and I have been having a discussion on the transcluded history for unique versions of the AEP7 laser pistol, as well as any weapon type that'll use the fancy new article type. I'm against it for the unique versions, because the background section should deal with the individual weapon's history, like on Zhu-Rong v418 Chinese Pistol and MPLX Novasurge, but the overview article at AEP7 Laser Pistol works well with the transcluded background.

What does the Vault think? Nitty 00:45, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Apparently the Vault does not think at all ;) -- Porter21 (talk) 02:31, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. Nitty 22:24, November 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * I have to agree with porter on that. All of that data is already listed on the main article (Laser Pistol) and is linked inside of the Laser Pistol (Fallout 3) page to go to the Laser Pistol page. It is redundant. --Kingclyde 04:00, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Pages
I've had the bot tag pages which have multiple weapon or armor infoboxes. While this probably did not get all pages which are affected, it's at least a start. You can find those articles by looking at Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Item page overhaul project. Feel free to copy over to the project page and add missing pages to the list. -- Porter21 (talk) 02:31, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added a progress table, created from the list of pages which transclude the project template. If you find more pages which fall within the scope of the project, please add them to the table. -- Porter21 (talk) 11:07, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

So...?
Since it's been two weeks since the project has been created and there has been no progress - what's the holdup? Is there anything unclear, is anything necessary still missing? -- Porter21 (talk) 13:33, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the activity in the wiki is generally decreasing nowadays, probably until there's news about New Vegas. Looks like we might need to do it by ourselves. Ausir(talk) 14:03, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * I know the activity is decreasing, I just asked because the people who signed up are usually active project contributors (opposed to people who just put their name on the list and disappear afterwards) - maybe the instructions aren't clear enough or something. After all, we know what it's supposed to look like because we're the ones who discussed it; it might not be as obvious for people who didn't participate in the discussion. -- Porter21 (talk) 14:23, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * The reason for my decreased activity is this site has been blocked at my work. Now I have to be constructive at work. I'm going to try to set time aside for these projects.--Kingclyde 03:55, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

1 Year on
Is this project still happening??? ☣Avatar☣ 22:08, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, alas it has not been finished yet. Although you have contributed to it greatly! Ausir(talk) 22:14, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's probably making more progress than most of the projects (in no small parts due to your recent edits). Apparently most people like creating projects and putting their names in "participant" lists more than actually doing work on the project. -- Porter21 (talk) 07:56, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good because I have a few questions, requests and probably some topics of discussion.
 * Porter21 (or is it just Porter?) I read above that you ran a bot to tag all the pages with more than 1 infobox a year ago, considering the release of FNV and its impact on items also featured in FO3 and there respective pages (some of them I have seen made me cringe), are you able to run the bot again?
 * Game-specific item article template does not list the headline for Appearances that seems to have been added to the wiki since the creation of the wiki, so what would be the placement for this headline and is it a required headline?
 * Also on this I am thinking it would be best to transclude this content from the main overview page, just wondering how best to achieve this and its placement within the overview page. Personal I am thinking a single line above the Gamearticle template for each variant which leads nicely into the links provided by this template.
 * The other thing not talked about, is the placement of videos within the game related page, at the moment I am taking them to come under gallery it placement order.
 * One of the items I would like up for discussion is the placement of images in the overview page. At the moment it states to have a gallery at the end of the page to prevent clutter. But most of the pages I have come across have had a image inline next to each variant as exampled here 9mm pistol. Personally I think it looks a lot better like this as long as format restrictions are put in place on the size of the elements used, as I have done in the above linked article page for example. I honestly think that this should be implemented instead of the gallery at the end as it keeps elements together instead of scrolling up and down to view images for items I am reading about.
 * The last thing that I have left for the moment while awaiting a different view on the subject is the description of variants. Currently it says Keep the description general; do not include game-specific details (e.g. do not include stuff like "This item has a damage of 40 in Fallout 2"). Think of it as a "lore" section or an "outsourced" background section. If known, mention things like the manufacturer, users, general technical background etc. To me it is kinda confusing as it both states that this section should be a description of the item and a background. To me they are to separate things and considering that this content is supposed to be transcluded to the game pages background section makes me lean towards it only being about the background of the item. But I just wanted to double check.


 * Thats all I can think of for the moment ☣Avatar☣ 21:17, December 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Porter" is fine ;) Regarding the points you brought up (I meant to reply earlier, but there's always so much else to do...):
 * Running the bot again shouldn't be a problem. Not sure whether I still have the script stored somewhere, but recreating it is not that much of a big deal. I'll look into it in the next days.
 * The game-specific pages (like all item pages) aren't supposed to have "appearances" sections - for item articles, the appearances are supposed to be mentioned in the lead section ("XYZ" is an item in Fallout 3) and there's not much point in duplicating information in my opinion.
 * For the game-specific pages, VA:LAYI (site-wide standard layout for item pages) generally applies - the differences are caused by maintaining separate copies of the same thing in different places. According to the guideline, videos indeed go below the gallery (although I'd suspect a large chunk of them doesn't comply with VA:VIDEO and should rather be removed).
 * Having an image in each section became standard shortly after we wrote up the original guidelines, so the gallery approach was never really used. I guess none of the participants remembered to update the instructions accordingly (I prefer not to meddle in the affairs of projects I'm not involved in).
 * Not sure I'm able to describe it better, but I'll try: Basically, these descriptions are supposed to be written from an "in-universe" perspective. Rather than mentioning game-specific numerical values/stats ("damage of 40"), it should have generalized descriptions ("is less damaging than its military counterparts, but is easier to maintain"). Maybe taking a look at Laser pistol can help understand the concept; it was the very first page with the new setup we created (or maybe someone else can step in and explain it better than I can).
 * Hope I haven't missed anything :) -- Porter21 (talk) 20:50, December 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Good :) if no one has any objections, I will transclude the updated page layout policy to this project page, then only one copy need be maintained and updated accordingly. As for the Vids, there was a lot of them I removed based on that policy, so I already got most of that done. I will also update the use of images in the overview template layout as well to reflect the new approach with them included in each section. ☣Avatar☣ 20:57, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Feel free to go ahead :) I've also had the bot go over all pages with item-type infoboxes again (ammo, armor, consumables, weapons) - it didn't throw up a whole lot of pages which had not been tagged (about 43). If you run into instances it has overlooked (multiple item-type infoboxes on one page), please let me know on my talk page. Maybe something was wrong with my regex, but it's also possible there simply aren't more pages to tag ;) -- Porter21 (talk) 21:51, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Seems I forgot to post the list of newly tagged pages: I've removed a few false positives (primarily FOBOS weapons which have a second infobox for the "dual" variant). -- Porter21 (talk) 10:07, December 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Howitzer
 * 2) Frank Horrigan
 * 3) Pre-War book
 * 4) Ant meat
 * 5) Mutilated limb
 * 6) Brahmin steak
 * 7) Alien crystal
 * 8) Cram
 * 9) Pass key
 * 10) Bubblegum
 * 11) Ear
 * 12) Mole rat wonder meat
 * 13) Garden gnome
 * 14) Beer
 * 15) Guns and Bullets
 * 16) Fancy Lads snack cakes
 * 17) Dean's Electronics
 * 18) Vodka
 * 19) Big Book of Science
 * 20) Nuka-Cola
 * 21) Garden of Eden Creation Kit
 * 22) Iguana-on-a-stick
 * 23) Holodisk
 * 24) RadAway
 * 25) Yao Guai meat
 * 26) Rad-X
 * 27) Squirrel-on-a-stick
 * 28) Jet
 * 29) Whiskey
 * 30) Psycho
 * 31) Mentats
 * 32) Buffout
 * 33) Vault jumpsuit


 * Its ok, I was working from Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Item page overhaul project. As for the dual weapons, I was ponding at having a look at changing the template to allow both item to be included in one info box, just like the ammunition template. ☣Avatar☣ 17:51, December 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Someone really needs to check these off so the project can be finished. ☣Avatar☣ 04:22, January 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * I started a peer review on the first one and I was taken to Submachine gun and left to pick what I wanted to view. Also isn't this kinda outdated and in need of updating?--Kingclyde 09:38, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

1 and 2 holodisks/notes verifications/updates!
I think that we need to use the direct files (PIPBOY.MSG (Fallout) and PIPBOY.MSG (Fallout 2)) and images to make sure these pages are "file accurate." (spelling, punctuation, grammar, format, et cetera correct or otherwise) I tried this with "Vree's autopsy report".--Ant2242 (talk) 22:22, 12 December 2013 (UTC)