Talk:Ishmael Ashur

Coincidence
My character that I started a long time ago is named Asher. It's gonna be kind of, well, awkward... PositronicSpleen 05:40, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Possible Article Mistake
In the article it states that Ashur is healthy other than his dirtiness and sunburns, however, with console commands: prid xx000f20 drop xx006852

You will see that Ashur has some of the scars that slaves and raiders have, popping veins being the most obvious.


 * The article says he "appears" to be healthy. Having a scar or two doesn't make someone unhealthy.

Another Ashur Glitch
If you leave Haven, after going up the elevator without talking directly to Ashur, Ashur will be non-responsive upon returning. As a result, the player will be unable to complete Free Labor. (PC)Blackcloud8176 12:20, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

The Prince

 * I think Ashur is a perfect example of "The Prince".
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prince
 * What you guys think?
 * Firelance 21:45, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

He's not completely canon, it states that the prince "must not be hated" and Ashur is certainly hated, since he forces slaves to labor in the mills all day and stay exposed to The Pitts radiation. Could you (and everyone else who skims it) please list similarities you see? This way we get multiple views and may have an interesting nod to add to the article. --Swizzler 21:50, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Karma Impact?
I'm wondering if anyone has killed him and know if it gives them Positive/Negative Karma, or a Finger/Ear? Plz reply soon!--Swizzler 05:03, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Negative if you side with him and then kill him. (Rifts Juicer 01:36, 26 March 2009 (UTC))

thanks. now we just need someone to side against him and kill him...--Swizzler 02:16, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

No karma effect when you side against (Rifts Juicer 00:19, 30 March 2009 (UTC))

ok, i'll change the article to say you only lose karma if you betray him. --Swizzler 00:36, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Possible Nazi Reference?
One of the phrases used in Ashur's speeches is "work shall set us all free" which is similar to the phrase on the front gate of Auschwitz. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeit_macht_frei
 * No, you fucking moron. That Furry Bastard 15:33, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

what a stupid reaction, I think it is certainly possible that it has something to do with it. Heineheine 08:27, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

who do you think you are, Glen Beck? you cant just go around accusing random people of being nazis. plus, if you side with Ashur you find out that he hates forcing them to work and once a cure is developed from the baby the people can be free and the city can redevelop. like Elder Lyons, Ashur is following his own interpretation of the Brotherhood's oaths based on his new enviroment. 69.140.35.147 17:34, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

You guys don't have to completely flip out about it, of course there could be a small connection. Hell, hes already been compared to the devil in the article. Although thats not to say he still isn't a good guy, as he cares about his workers, and his family and wants to see them sucseed. Chaos ian7 20:01, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

HA! Although I do agree that there could be a small connection, I think it's hilarious you referenced Glen Beck.70.118.50.40 12:26, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Removed from Inconsistencies
I have moved the below off the Article page as they are out of context for the main article but not unnecessary. I will not let this article go to crap! --Swizzler 20:04, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

I have removed it because all the brotherhood at the Citadel wear T-4x power armor, not T51-B, suggesting they DID NOT have the armor in their arsenal.

Another "speculation" i'm moving from the article.

Removed from Talk
Removed the talk issues regarding Ashur's name and article cleanup as they appear to be resolved.--Swizzler 18:29, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Removed my section about the actor because it was getting off topic --Swizzler 02:39, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

You dont have to remove things from the Talk page. The talk page is here for discussion purposes, and for some extra info that people might find interesting. Hessen 12:50, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Unbolded Ashur's name
Not sure why his name is in bold throughout the article. I have not seen this on any other article on the Vault, so I'm removing the bold text to only display his name. Feel free to revert the edit if someone feels it is necessary. The Incendiary 04:25, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Inconsistencies discussion

 * Although the content written above may seem to contradict Fallout 2 lore as was described, the brotherhood and NCR is never mentioned to be operating a capable steel mill, which does not produce weapons and ammunition but forges or reforges metal, such as the ramps the raiders use to scale the downtown and uptown builings and to make structural supports and the infastructure to build buildings, machinery, and other steel products. As the Brotherhood and NCR is never mentioned as being able to accomplish these in the previous games, Bethesha has evolved the Canon so as the only operation Steel Mill known to exist is located in the Pitt. As Ashur would most likely not have an understanding or knowledge of how the enclave (which the Enclaves manufacturing capability was destoyed at Navarro nearly three decades before the Pitt takes place, long before he was part of the Brotherhood) developed weapons and armor this Mill is the only one HE knows about. Also it is not exaclty neccessary to have an opporation Steel Mill to create weapons as many of the Brotherhood's could be created from recycled materials an steel. Furthermore, although the Brotherhood could produce weapons at the time of Fallout 2, nearly none of the technology or equipment used in that game is different from that in Fallout 1, suggesting that the Brotherhood could not delvelop weaponary and armor only reproduce existing models and/or restore broken and non-operational ones. While the Enclave does exist in Fallout 3 as the games major enemy, the equipment that they use and the poor condition of weapons and armor found on their corpses could suggest that after the ending of Fallout 2 they are unable to reproduce weaponary and technology. This is supported by the fact that Raven Rock houses no manufacturing capabilities and that their armor is notiecably inferior to that which was used in the previous games suggesting that they are using an older, obselete version of their Advanced Power Armor Mark II.


 * Because many American Military bases are located along the west coast and the probability that U.S. army was stockpiling troops and munitions on the west coast for the operations in Alaska and China, it could be intrepretated that the NCR is using these stockpiles to supply its relatively large military force as their is only vague refrences to the NCR manufacturing weapons.


 * Gun Runners and the Brotherhood in Fo1 are explicitly stated to be able to manufacture weapons. Now, it's highly improbable they suddenly lost that ability in the 80 years that separate Fo1 from Fo2, if anything, it'd only grow and allow them to build more and better weapons. That Furry Bastard 20:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Although they may state they are manufacturing weapons, this does not confirm they have an operating steel mill as Ashur states they have the only operating steel mill, and not the only operating manufacturing site this would suggest that while the BoS and the Enclave are able to manufacture and develop weapons and armor, they aren't able to do it at such a large scale as The Pitt when it reaches full operating condition.--Swizzler 21:31, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * By the way, even on the East Coast, the Institute has technology that allows them to create androids, so it's not as if all of the East Coast is technologically inferior. Ausir 13:18, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Overall, the West Coast is superior. The MIT is a single instance. That Furry Bastard 18:31, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

It seems to me that this entire section is, unfortunately, speculation. There is no real proof of the current progress in the West as of 2277, and it is quite possible that the region may have come apart (note, human society is not always progressive). Really, this section may need to be completely removed to ensure neutrality and objectivity of the article, as we have no basis for the comparative levels of technology nor the industrial strength of either are by 2277. Unless someone has some way to conclusively prove any of the statements made in the section (as relating to 2277), it has no references and no real basis, and thus should be expunged.

So you expunged it without first archiving it on the talk page like we've CLEARLY been doing?? you just come in here, wipe it out and leave? people have been adding to it since the release of the DLC. While I agree it doesn't need to be on the front page, it doesn't deserve to be deleted forever! I'm archiving it in the removed content section. Furthermore, I think we should use the archived text and extract what isn't speculation and use it to further this article, not simply delete it.--Swizzler 03:24, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

If you want a citation for every single word in the article, go to Wikipedia, the tards there would appreciate help in ruining a community project. It's SRS BSNS there. Fallout Wiki is a fan-run project, and doesn't need to cling to NPOV, OBJ, FGGT and other idiotic policies enforced on WP like it was a governmental database. Inconsistencies section aims to point out Bethesda's fuckups and retconning, there are quite a lot of them. That Furry Bastard 08:23, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, to begin, I apologize for not archiving it, you are right, that would be proper. However, I will reiterate that it should not be on the front page. I also do not desire complete citations, just simple evidence. Thank you for fixing my mistake Swizzler by archiving the section on the talk page, but it should still not be on the main page. I do not wish to seem antagonistic or even create anything similar to internecine conflict amongst our community, but if we do not keep our articles cleaned up, their usefulness to the reader will be rendered null. Also, I once again note if anyone can prove any of the statements conclusively, I would (nor would any sane person) object to it being on the main page.

Note: It appears someone is continuosly changing the article back to its previous state. Whomever is doing this I would request a reason for doing so, as (without reason behind it), this amounts to simple griefing.

I was reading through the inconsistencies section and it only appears the counterargument is speculation, perhaps we could form a more speculation-free counterargument?--Swizzler 14:07, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I am curious as to how only the counter-argument was speculation. We have no data on the NCR or the West as of 2277 (unfortunately). However, to ensure no one becomes frustrated, I have simply added a note at the top of the section, not removed it. I think this will be a suitable compromise for everyone.


 * Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. For the West Coast to degenerate to a bunch of retards shooting at each other (AKA Fallout 3's East Coast) is highly implausible, given what happens in Fallout and Fallout 2. The West Coast is on a highway to rebirth, with NCR expanding and self-sufficent towns growing. Your point would be valid if the timespace was over a century, but unfortunately, 35 years is not nearly enough to warrant removing the entire section.


 * There is absolutely nothing in Fallout 3 that would allow to speculate that the West Coast is destroyed, therefore what was estabilished in previous titles (Fo1 and Fo2), namely that the West Coast has rebuild itself a great deal, is the only data we have available. Therefore, the section remains without any changes. That Furry Bastard 18:28, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I never said the West Coast was destroyed... I agree that any mention of that would be pointless too. What you are basically saying is along the lines of this: "Well, seeing as we know there was a guy alive a hundred years ago, but we never found out if he had died, its okay to state he is still alive." Please read my comments before attempting to create an argument in the future. All I did was note a truth: The section is speculation. If you have any reasonable or logical way to refute this instead of simply being recalcitrant I would be most enthusiastic to hear it. -B

...So it appears you locked the page instead of having a rational conversation. Very well. I find it unfortunate you feel so insecure you cannt show the common decency to speak about issues like this, but so be it. If you wish to act like a child, go ahead.


 * Page was locked to prevent editing by IPs. Want to edit and talk, get an account. Don't want to? Too bad. That Furry Bastard 20:45, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh dear, now what will I do? -B

Not my problem. That Furry Bastard 20:51, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

... Ah yes, the esoteric child now attempts to take the high ground. Anyhow, my offer still remains for intelligent conversation, until then, ta-ta. Oh, and don't think for a moment I didn't notice your childish attempts to block me from not only talking, but creating an account. -B
 * Heh, this sure is serious business for you. That Furry Bastard 22:56, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for locking it down from IP's. IMO the entire site should be like this, prevents douchebaggery.--Swizzler 15:02, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Can't we just assume that Ashur didn't know what he was talking about when he was referring to manufacturing capability, and was just speaking to the best of his ability? It's not like his word is law or complete fact.--98.111.242.186 03:50, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * FACT when you visit Shaddy Sands in FO1 its a mud hutt village. When you visit it in FO2 it has a power plant, newly constucted buildings, grass, energy sheild fences and loads of other stuff. They have the capacity to produce new materials, but still probably not on the scale of a entire steel mill.
 * It's not a mud hut village, those are bricks and sandcrete (courtesy of the GECK). But yes, it clearly shows that capacity. However, the Pitt is still not on NCR's level, as it has no regular standing army, government or a free populace. It's still a great, Fallouty place, though. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 08:34, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Name?
Do we really have to title the page as 'Ishemal Ashur'? Why not just Ashur. Seems sort of like Occam's Razor to me. Well, not really, just thought that would be funny haha
 * If the full name of a character is known, we tend to use it as a page title, regardless of what they are referred to in-game. See e.g. Joanne Lynette and Horace Pinkerton. Ausir 20:59, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Moving AleximMose's question to where it belongs

 * After having sided with Werhner, I killed Ashur after turning off the floodlights protecting Uptown and exiting the Pitt Underground. I later killed Werhner in order to regain access to Haven. Upon entering the room where you first meet Ashur, I found him on the ground, naked, and at full health. I shot him and received the message 'Ashur is Unconscious'. I then turned and went into the side room on the right, and when I returned, he was alive again at full health, attemping to move towards me (even though his movement appeared to be glitched as he sort of walked in place and teleported a couple feet every few seconds). He tried to punch me and I shot him, once more recieving the 'Ashur is Unconscious' message. I stood there for a few seconds and he respawned on the other side of the room. He was somehow unkillable and unlootable, so I was forced to ignore him and leave. [Has this happened to anyone else?] --AleximMose


 * Moving your question from the article to here. Don't post questions inside the article. Articles are NOT message boards. --FFN 19:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Moving discussion regarding Ashur's position vs the Enclave or NCR from main article to here

 * Even the Enclave has lacked the ability to re-industrialize, due in part to their bigoted views of waste landers as mutants to be exterminated, when in reality they are a valuable work force. The Pitt is achieving what the Brotherhood of Steel won't, or as Ashur says was "too lazy" to, which is to rebuild factories. This makes Ashur likely one of the most powerful leaders in the Northeast. The ability to pump out weapons and ammo from factories, even if it is only one, is a huge advantage over having to scrounge for it or relying on pre-war stockpiles, as the Brotherhood and Enclave do.

Inconsistencies

 * Obviously, the above is false in the context of previous entries in the Fallout series, but only if Ashur's statements are taken to include the entirety of former United States' territory. Eighty years after the war, on the West Coast, the Brotherhood of Steel already had the ability to machine weapons, ammunition and replicate technology (although not as advanced as the power armor) on a scale large enough to serve as their primary source of income to buy food and water from the Hub, which in turn was a city which was the primary source of food and water for the region, buying most of the technology from other communities. Furthermore, Adytum was a major supplier of ammunition for the region, in addition to the Boneyard Gun Runners manufacturing weapons. These sentiments make even less sense in the context of Fallout 2, where the Enclave operates a freshly built military base at Navarro, clearly has the ability to manufacture energy weapons (to sell to the Salvatores) and is an obvious industrial powerhouse, and its ability to develop and mass-produce the Advanced Power Armor, a post-war technology. The New California Republic and Vault City are other examples of growing West Coast industrial centers, since both have redeveloped industry and can manufacture weapons on a large scale.
 * Considering the setting of Fallout 3 in the isolated Eastern U.S. which has had little or no contact with the Western regions, Ashur is more likely referring only to the East Coast and its lack of progress in rebuilding civilization compared to the West. He may have been too young when he set out on the Brotherhood of Steel's expedition to Washington, D.C. to know about the West's growing industrial strength, and so would have no reason to think that The Pitt wasn't the sole redeveloping industrial center on the continent. In fact, in his speech to the slaves of The Pitt prior to the opening of the arena for combat, Ashur only compares The Pitt to eastern centers of civilization, including the Commonwealth, the Capital Wasteland, and Ronto, further supporting his own ignorance of the superior capabilities of western regions like the NCR.
 * Having finally finished The Pitt, I realized that most of this discussion was fairly speculative. I've transferred the text to the discussion section, but have added a few brief lines to the main article mentioning the concerns expressed in this large series of paragraphs. Joylock 02:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Ashur's Corpse Is Gone?
I'd really like Ashur's armor, but I can't find his corpse anywhere. I killed Wherner to regain access to Haven to see if he was inside, but he was lying on the ground stuck there, and when I killed him he kept going unconcious, then got up and started moving around but was glitched. I know this glitch is explained in the article, but, it states that it only happens adter Ashur dies, which means he is dead somehwhere that I can't find. What I did was side with Ashur, kidnap the baby when he left, killed his wife after kidnapping the baby, then ran out of there. I was never able to find his corpse after that, even after I turned off the floodlights. - PlainTwo

Ashur diary base IDs.
If you want his diary entries but dont want to steal them, then here is the base IDs to add them to the game. I couldn't find them anywhere on the wiki so I thought I would add them.

entry 1. xx00ab97 entry 2. xx00ab98 entry 3. xx00ab99 entry 4. xx00ab9a

Title
Is it worth noting that one of Ashur's titles, "Lord of the Pitt", is nigh-identical to a name for Satan? --Twentyfists 21:46, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

Behind the Scenes
I thought the capital of Assyria was Nineveh.--OvaltinePatrol 17:36, January 12, 2011 (UTC)

Ashur's Baby?
I believe Ashur is black so why is his baby white? You can see the blonde hair through a scope if you don't mind pointing a gun at a baby. Maybe its the reason Wehrner was banished... Any thoughts?
 * All infants are white. Melatonin and skin colour kicks in later in development. Besides, maybe Sandra's genes are just that powerful. They ATE Ashur's genes ;) http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 07:43, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

All babies are white? Melatonin and skin color? Back to Biology 101 for you, pal.
 * Ashur's not black; he's a white guy that's really dirty. Have you seen where he lives? --Kastera (talk) 05:16, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

I turned Ashur to Ashes
Fittingly, Mr. Ashur lived up to his name after I blasted him with my Metal Blaster and he was reduced to a pile of Ashes. I guess that's how he got his name, right?--108.70.58.56 22:13, April 6, 2011 (UTC)

Should be able to enslave Ashur
I stole Ashur's baby, but Wernher seemed creepy to me [and I couldn't store the baby in my Megaton home], so I returned her. I waited until I looted all I wanted from The Pitt, just to be sure, then I killed Ashur. Enslaving him would've been better. The Pitt add-on should've allowed for more NPCs to be enslaved and have a new Pitt slaver to whom you could sell slaves.

Wish I could defend my title in The Hole as well.

If i could like your statement 1000 times, i would. I agree that they should/could have expanded more in The Pitt.38.109.25.246 23:59, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry i wasnt signed in before Forsaken 69 00:01, June 11, 2011 (UTC)

SmokerFaction?
He's part of a "smoker faction?!"--Ant2242 (talk) 18:29, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
 * It's a checkbox in the GECK for characters that will smoke a cigarette when idle. --Kastera (talk) 18:34, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

How is this its own faction? Should this not be part of the Infobox?--Ant2242 (talk) 18:46, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
 * GECK factions are different than actual factions presented in the infobox. It denotes that the character belongs to a larger group that share a similar animation/behavior, e.g. smoking when idle. --Kastera (talk) 21:46, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Since the infoboxes need to be updated anyway, I think this should be added as well.--Ant2242 (talk) 02:33, 28 February 2014 (UTC)