User talk:P22

Hi there!
Welcome to our Fallout wiki, and thank you for your contributions! There's a lot to do around here, so I hope you'll stay with us and make many more improvements.


 * Recent changes is a great first stop, because you can see what other people are editing right this minute, and where you can help.


 * If you haven't already, create a user page about yourself! If you do, we'll be able to know you better as a member of our community.


 * Questions? You can ask in the Forum or on the "discussion" page associated with each article, or post a message on my talk page!


 * Need help? The Help page has an outline of the site, and pages to help you learn how to edit. See the Vault's Policy page for general guidelines and code of conduct.


 * I'm really happy to have you here, and look forward to working with you!

--Kingclyde 19:09, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

To Fat Man Spoon
(since apparently I can't appeal on his talk page, due to block)

Hmm... Why was I blocked? All I tried was correcting critical multiplier values for automatic weapons, on their weapon pages, which are supposed to equal GECK value divided by weapon ROF.

They are, as such, displayed on main weapon list page for ages (for example, Assault Rifle uses x0.125, which is GECK value of x1 divided by its ROF of 8). So, I've seen no reason why it should not be as such on weapon pages. In fact, some weapon pages already list such reduced multiplier on their pages, while some do not, which is quite mess due to not being consistent.

I tried to correct this, but I got blocked due to spreading false info, while in fact I was not. For all gameplay purposes, value divided by ROF is one used when calculating critical chances, not one listed in GECK.

Help? P22 13:51, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

In the past, someone went around and changed all of the crit multipliers to the values you used. I simply assumed you were said person again. We're using the GECK values. I'll unblock as you were so polite regarding this. Spoon 14:16, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I didn't get the full story there. You raise an interesting point. I'll ask the others what they think of it. I apologise. Spoon 14:17, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

One question: There are a few weapon articles that already have crit. mult. divided by ROF (Perforator, Infiltrator and a few more).

Can I edit them to use GECK value? P22 14:21, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not terribly sure. I like your idea up there, and if we decide to use it, it will create more work for us. Spoon 14:23, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Ok, then I'll leave it as is, until matter gets resolved. I'm still blocked for a day anyway. P22 14:28, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

You are? I'll take a look. Spoon 14:32, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

How about now? Spoon 14:34, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Now I can edit properly. Thanks! P22 14:35, September 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think I see a problem here. In the article discussion for weapons I asked how you guys were coming up with these funny numbers and you said "I take high crit weapon (according to GECK) put full skill and excellent condition of weapon, some perks that enhance critical chance too, and then do some free fire and some VATS fire and see how common are the criticals.". Problem is, is that the damage ratings do not include perks and our rating system is also set up that way. The way that you are using is giving the crit multiplier a smaller amount, which makes no sense. I also have some issues with the damage rating in the new infobox template which I will discuss with Porter and Ausir. For now, let's hold off on changing the values until I get a definite answer. I plan on creating an weapons overhaul project but I need answers to a few questions first. Thanks--Kingclyde 17:11, September 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * I was testing how common are the criticals, not damage dealt. I suspected first that VATS attacks use full critical chance multiplier from GECK (for automatic weapons), while further testing disproved that. So it seems that critical hit multiplier from GECK is indeed divided by FireRate to give actual multiplier used in the game for automatic weapons.


 * For example, for LK 6 user, with no Perks, Automatic Rifle would give critical not 6% of the time, but 6/8 = 0.75% of the time (or 15.75% of the time in VATS, due to 15% innate bonus). Same character with Finesse Perk and Precision Gatling Laser (x4 from GECK) would give criticals not 4*(6+5) = 44% of the time (per hit, it would do MONSTER damage if it worked!), but just 44/20 = 2.2% of the time (or 17.2% in VATS). Of course, this all takes into account fully repaired weapon, since damaged ones have lower critical chance (according to GECK wiki, critical chance is directly proportional with state of the weapon, so 50% damaged one would only do criticals twice less then fully repaired weapon). P22 02:39, September 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * for reference:
 * http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/Critical_Hit_Chance_Formula P22 02:39, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

At this time (P22 02:55, September 9, 2009 (UTC)), following weapons articles have crit. mult. divided by rof:

Chinese Assault Rifle uses 0.125 (1/8)

Infiltrator (weapon) uses 0.125 (1/8)

Perforator uses 0.25, which is plan wrong (since rof is 6, 2/6 = 0.33)

Gatling Laser (Fallout 3) uses 0.05 (1/20)

Vengeance uses 0.05 (1/20)

You wouldn't happen to have a full GECK info dump...
With all the DLC installed, would you? Almost all of the weapons are missing RoF and Damage Per Projectile sections. We could use a data dump. Nitty 03:01, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

How do you make that? Also, note that I can only open Fallout3 + one DLC at the time in GECK. P22 03:09, September 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * I can add them tonight and tomorrow. --Kingclyde 03:10, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Alright, thanks for clearing that up! And Kingclyde, do it. Nitty 03:12, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

Template:Weapon gamebryo
I've finished the first version of the reworked template (see Template:Weapon gamebryo/sandbox). A few examples can be found at Template:Weapon gamebryo/sandbox2 - feel free to play around with them and see whether they behave as you think they should (values calculated correctly, required parameters etc).

There are a few things I'm not sure about, maybe you know more than me and can help me.
 * 1) Do effects stack? I.e. if a weapon confers an effect of x damage for 5 secs and you hit an enemy again after 2 seconds while the effect is still active, does the effect simply get prolonged (i.e. the timer is reset to 5 secs) or is (in the example) then a damage of 2*x applied for 3 seconds? Just a minor thing (affects only the display of effect damage in the DPS row) but I guess if we do it, we might as well do it right. Currently the template assumes that effects do not stack.
 * 2) Does displaying DPS for mines and grenades make sense?
 * 3) Does displaying attackshots/sec for mines and grenades make sense?

Anyhow, I hope I managed to incorporate all points we discussed. -- Porter21 (talk) 14:39, September 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * 1) Don't take my word on it, but I think they do not stack. I remember doing some experiment with that Fertilizer Shovel weapon and extra damage over time didn't increased with mutiple hits.


 * 2) Not really.


 * 3) Not really. P22 21:19, September 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * At first glace, the only thing that is out of place is DPS for weapons that have shots/reload of 1. It will show unrealistically high DPS for things such as Missile Launchers, Double Shotguns and similar stuff. Now sure, if it could be solved, exempt by somehow disabling that stat for those weapons. P22 21:31, September 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, I think explosiondamage doesn't work currently for guns (needed for missile launchers and stuff). Works for mines and grenades. P22 21:42, September 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, explosiondamage not working for guns is intentional - I forgot about missile launchers and the like. I'll see about enabling it. Regarding single shot/reload weapons, as I already said this is something that can't be avoided unfortunately since there's no reliable source for the reload time. Plus it affects not only single-shot weapons - weapons with 2 shots per clip have the same issue, just a little less dramatic, weapons with 3 shots as well with again a little less effect etc. There's no good way to tell where to make the cut. I'd simply leave it as is and add a little tooltip which on mouseover states that DPS doesn't take reloading into account. -- Porter21 (talk) 22:06, September 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * You're right. Sawed off-s are affected too, with just 2 shots per clip. As well as fast firing weapons with small 5-6 rounds clip. Ok, do as you think it's right. P22 05:59, September 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Added the tooltips, enabled explosiondamage for all types and disabled display of "DPS" and "attacks/sec" for grenades/mines. I hope I didn't break any of the formulas in the process. Anything I missed? -- Porter21 (talk) 11:57, September 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe just one thing. For automatic weapons, GECK value for critical chance multiplier is divided by firerate to get actual chance to crit. It could be good if it could be somehow seen in infobox. Maybe something like "x0.125 (x1)" (with 0.125 being autocalculated), with note that for autoweapons GECK multiplier is divided by firerate. P22 18:29, September 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Not sure whether we should display values which are not actually applied, I think it might just confuse the average reader. I've added a new value ("dmg/projectile") - guns with multiple were missing info for that. In any case, I'm not going to be around much in the next few weeks (I'll check by occasionally though), so please leave any feedback at Template talk:Weapon gamebryo. I'm more likely to remember checking that page than your talk page :) -- Porter21 (talk) 01:12, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Sawed-Off Shotgun
WHOA! 450 damage?! Are you sure?! Nitty 22:20, October 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * That's just error in the way how new weapon template handles projectiles (base damage multiplied by projectiles, instead other way around). It will be fixed by Porter21 eventually. P22 22:26, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay. Just making sure you knew what you were doing! Nitty 22:27, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Should be fixed now. P22 23:23, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Perk damage
Not sure how regularly you still check this wiki, so I thought I'd leave you a message. I've finally got round to implement the perk damages (see Template talk:Weapon gamebryo), your input would be appreciated :) -- Porter21 (talk) 16:03, November 12, 2009 (UTC)