Forum:Fallout and Mad Scientists

Please don't bother to comment on this thread if you think it is pointless or stupid. If you think it pointless or stupid, then you aren't the target for the conversation.

I get the impression that almost every scientist in the Fallout universe is a raving loon, like in the Miracle of Science or Girl Genius Webcomics. They seem insanely incapable of rational risk assessment or of taking normal precautions.

The Vault program is really dependent on having a group of highly educated and intelligent scientists who are OK with the idea of performing extremely dangerous experiments on human subjects -- while locking themselves into the same facility! Vault-Tec seems to treat the whole idea of nuclear war as just a great way to cluster a group of captive test subjects.

The attitude toward human life in general is really very cavalier. Would any of us seriously consider driving to work in an automobile that explodes into a radioactive mushroom cloud in the event of a major collision?

The scientist in the Those! quest not only injects GIANT MUTANT ANTS with live FEV, but he also explicitly ignored experimental controls in the interest of speed.

Here is my theory:

The Pentagon contains records of experiments to influence public attitudes using TV, comics, etc. The premise of the Fallout setting is that there isn't science so much as SCIENCE!, that quasi-plausible comic book version of science. Using SCIENCE!, the military-industrial establishment of the Cold War years began ramping up public anti-Communist hysteria to ridiculous levels, and kept it at a boil for years. Presumably, the Communist countries did the same thing with Communist indoctrination. The end result was a type of cultural madness followed by inevitable war.

You may ask, "So what, it's just a game?"

The point is that the history of the Fallout world is sadly plausible, if you assume different scientific capabilities. If you get anything out of the game other than just shooting things, e.g., if you enjoy the questions of morality in some of the quests, I think you'll get a slightly different read on things thinking about that. Fallout might not be as cartoonish as it appears, even beyond the nugget of truth that exists in the center of every satire.DreadPirateMurphy 18:34, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes I do get the double entendre you are talking about. But really, what community doesn't have its mad crazy scientist who doesn't care about how he gets results as long as they are satisfactory. Spawnsos 20:25, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

I understand what you are talking about. I think that the Vault-Tec scientists are dumbasses. I mean seriously! How could you continually clone a guy and keep the clones imprisoned and expect them to NOT rebel? And why would you make super-mutants and not expect them to end up killing you all? I also agree on what you said about Dr.Lesko. Silent.Killa78 00:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Obviously you've never read about or listened to the holotapes talking about the creation of Super Mutants with the FEV. The overall intention was to preserve American lives in case China used biological warfare. The FEV was originally designed to basically create, "super humans" able to withstand disease, time, and battle. Little did they know the actual effects the evolution process had on the subjects, which created the violent, and unstable Super Mutants. So overall, the goal was to help not hurt, but the process was immoral. --Esscex 07:10, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Very interesting, DreadPirateMurphy. Thanks a lot.

Might I add that considering the social context of the pre-war epoch, the attitude towards science was overly optimistic, as shown in multiple ads for the Gutsy Robot Model and the Vaults, but also in our own “reality”, whereas many science-fiction shows/books from this era were incredibly bright and cheerful? In Fallout, the war never allowed our collective unconscious to go through a necessary disillusion towards the possibilities of science, which might have added to the inconsiderate attitude of scientists towards safety and reason. SpaceZombieMoe 18:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, Moe, that's interesting. IRL, the disillusionment with science went hand-in-hand with a general disillusionment with authority during the 1960s and 1970s (at least in the U.S.). It's possible science was spared some of that because with SCIENCE!, you actually get the results promised. Robot maids and atomic automobiles actually exist. This presumes that the cultural similarities to 1950s America is a constant that never ceased. It is also theoretically possible that mind control was used when things started to fall apart in later decades to "reset the clock" to a more ideal time. In fact, you could make a case that the timeline is NOT divergent at all. The government could have reworked "official" accounts so that, say, the history of the space program was one of universal American success. Who would know any different, after the bombs fell. In fact, eliminating folks who remember the real events would be one benefit of a nuclear war, if you're feeling especially cynical. DreadPirateMurphy 21:13, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

True, the actual results to the unabashed and inconsequential scientific methods used in the Fallout reality gave to the proponents of SCIENCE! (great portrayal of the perception of science through word characterization, by the way) all the more justification to be so brazen and hazardous. The disillusionment we went through IRL (which I believe came indeed with our perception of authority, I totally agree with you), has been strongly influenced by nuclear technology. Hiroshima/Nagasaki (the most obvious examples that science is not inherently good or evil but simply a tool in the hands of a flawed authority and the certification that science will not necessarily make the world a better place) accelerated our sudden but inevitable realization that science can be used against humankind with cataclysmic consequences.

In Fallout the positive results coming from SCIENCE! most probably contributed to the prevention of this concern towards mishandled technology and realization of its destructive potential which came, if it came at all, literally a couple of hours too late (a couple of hours that were more than enough to turn everything into a wasteland).

Not only did the nuclear war “help” eliminating people who would have remembered the truth, but instead of preventing future similar scientific disasters, it simply allowed scientists to continue with total disregard towards what few things/people worth protecting are left, either because of the simple misconception that there’s “nothing left to loose” or because a tight, ethical and reasonable management through objective and exterior groups of scientists (or government officials) is entirely lacking, leaving desperate, irresponsible, misinformed or overly ambitious scientists to their own device.

Thanks again Murphy; this conversation is exactly the kind of thing that shows how videogames are sometimes (and dare I say more often than ever) works of art with relevant social comments and multidimensional interpretations that are too often left aside for the sake of gameplay and bursts of blood (which I deeply enjoy, don’t get me wrong). SpaceZombieMoe 16:18, 24 July 2009 (UTC

I don't think the scientists are complete whack job becuase of what they do. First we have complete whack jobs doing shit all the time, you know those hilarious youtube videos of teens doing stupid shit? Well someday(maybe) they could become a scientist, just becuase all you see on TV and the internet are those smart and sane people doing good doesn't mean there are people in our world who make the scientists in Fallout look like saints. In the Fallout universe the government is gone and there is little to nothing other then his/her moral stopping a curios scientist from say make giant ants breath fire or accidentally make the Super mutants. In the anarchic world of Fallout people can get away with almost anything. Doctalen 15:19, 27 July 2009 (UTC)