Talk:Caravan (game)

Winning the game
How does one win the game or the bid. I am confused. I understand the 21-26 bids, but somehow the game keeps going. Shogun of Harlem 18:14, February 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * ALL of the caravans must sell. If any one if them is a tie, the game continues.  Either beat the opponents bid, bust them by playing a face card on their caravan or if you have two winning caravans, bust your own or discard it. --jimnms 23:11, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

Problems playing
Okay! So I'm having problems playing Caravan anymore, I won No-Bark at a game and after that I wasn't able to play anymore... So anything I can do??

Where are all these caps coming from?!
Shadow of the Wastes

Has anyone else noticed that if you play a merchant, win all their money, buy all of their stock, then win your money again, you end up with much more than the two of you previously had combined? Is there some kind of math error when calculating the payout, or am I missing something? RadRuler 02:55, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * AHEM. Okay, I've figured it out on my own.  Apparently, you gain twice as much money as your opponent bets.  This seems to be a programming error, since you win the pot, but the money you put into the pot isn't subtracted from your wallet.  So, say, the ante is 5: if you win, you have a net gain of 10, but your opponent only loses 5 caps (I confirmed this through checking merchants inventory budgets).  So the whole thing is a calculation error on the part of the programmers, at least on PS3.  Can anyone confirm this on 360 and PC? RadRuler 03:31, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tested on PC (using random saved game in Novac) Reported note said 510 caps were added, when in fact it added 1020 which would have been then entire pot. The on screen note could have gone through twice though, something I do not know how to check for.  Also This only works in the Players direction, I intentionally lost a few games and the Merchant only gained the proper amount of caps.


 * It'll be the same on all systems. That's not the sort of thing that differs based on platform.--Gothemasticator 03:45, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * That is a major, MAJOR bug! I'm not 100% sure it's true... but I have sort of vaguely noticed myself maybe getting too rich too fast from Caravan.  I just didn't watch the numbers closely enough.  I know at the end, it says "you got 1000 caps" or whatever, but I figured it was taking the 500 *I* bet (my numbers are examples of course) after the game started, so it was just giving me my 500 back when I won, as well as the 500 from my opponent.  Can anyone confirm this?  I don't know anyone in-game that I haven't already bankrupted, so I can't really check. 70.100.81.195 04:47, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Same bug applies to Casino games. You only lose caps AFTER you lose the hand, not once you start the game.96.3.131.71 06:19, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Casino use chips; the amount of chips won or loss on single play in the little I've gambled (Having a high luck makes it hard to gamble for long) has never been incorrect. That it seems to use a similar payout plan, may point to where their failure is but doesn't make it a bug since it works as intended in the casino games. (At least on the PC)
 * I can confirm that you win twice as much as you should on caravan on the PC.

Card Add Bug Fixed
Fixed in Patch 1.1.1 If confirmed for other platforms we should move the note about duplicate card buying up to the obtaining a deck and additional card area and clean up the bug list. Still getting Double Caps for a win. With some further testing it appears the game won't sell you card already in your deck, but might still be able to find them as loot.

a glitch? / bug?
is anyone having the problem when playing caravan

during the initial drawing of cards when ever I pull a king/queen/jack I have no option but to discard that card, but then every card after that I have no option but to discard every other card after that even if it isn't a face card edit: I'm playing on the PC version if that helps
 * The game doesn't let you select a face card to play, until you've placed the first ace through ten card of each caravan. I've even tried discarding one my face cards first, and I can not repeat this error.  You are using the cursor(arrow) keys to select cards, and where you are placing them on the board?  Face cards can only be played off/on ace through ten cards.  I've heard of bugs that don't let you do anything other then discard happening to a few folks, never have been able to duplicate it.

I thought I was, but as above, you are meant to use the arrow keys to cycle through the hand you have drawn - (thanks to the programmers for letting us know that). Apart from that this game seems to me to be a complete waste of time. I've already finished the game once and never bothered to gamble, plenty of loot available, and the rules are just too cumbersome to bother with. Didn't get Fallout to play cards or one-arm-bandits. Maybe instead of coding this they should have worked on making sure the quests worked properly in the first place. Though from the other posts here it seems they can't even get the maths right on the bets. Worst of all it simply isn't enjoyable...

Bugged to the point of unplayability
Does anyone else experience a bug where they can not play ANY numerical card after the first in a column, regardless of whether it's legal or not? I've even, in one game through luck of the draw, tried to copy my opponents move and it won't let me play the card.

Have you tried using cursor(arrow) keys to place the down from the first one?

Gashman concurs. I also have this problem and I can't figure out any way around it. Please help!

Gashman has found the solution. To play another card on the same caravan:

1. select the card you wish to play. 2. use the left and right arrow keys (if using pc) to select the caravan you wish to play it on. 3. use the down arrow key to play it at the bottom of the pile. The card should turn from red to green.

So easy yet there was no instruction given in the game. Hope that helps

It took me forever, and actually it was getting angry and moving the joystick around that helped me find it. You actually have the option of trying to play any card on top of any other card, but you can't play a number card on another number card. It gives you the option anyway. You need to place the second number card on any caravan by pushing down from the first slot on that caravan. You need to press down to get to the next slot for a card in play. They are supposed to be stacked in rows.


 * Should this be added to the main page? I had the same problem, didn't realize that I not only had to use the arrow keys, but I had to arrow DOWN to place my card properly so that it turned green. I even watched 3 YouTube videos and only one casually mentioned this.-LawdyMissMaudy 12:28, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Such a stupid game
Seriously, I get 26 on all my rows yet the game continues until I've lost all my cards, it's like losing blackjack with a facecard and an ace but not being allowed to stick. - RASICTalk 04:11, November 14, 2010 (UTC) You have to WIN (Not reach 26) 2 of the 3 Caravans and all 3 have to be being WON by you or your opponent for the game to end. If there is caravan that isn't won by either of players the game will go on till one of you runs outta cards.


 * You can't win if there is a tie. You just have to play a Jack or King on your opponent's caravan to reduce or bust his/her bid, then the game will end. --Jimnms 10:41, November 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Or, if you've won two and tied the third, you can sabotage your bid for that tied one and win the game. I do it all the time, in fact part of my strategy involves letting the other player have the first one they build on while I quickly get to 26 on another, then the last one. Also remember that just because you're losing one caravan, it doesn't mean the other player is winning it; if you've got higher than 26 on one, and the other player has lower than 21, then that caravan is still up for grabs. -- 12:41, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Just plain stupid.
This has to be the most convoluted and ignorant card game ever thought up. What moron decided to make winning 30 games an achievement? 3 is bad enough... ReapTheChaos 15:23, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

What moron can't figure out how to play this game? It's really not that difficult, you're just being ignorant yourself. ohhhh,--Blahmarrow 21:11, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, quite stupid.
But considering how much money you can earn playing this game and how easy it is to win with the right strategy I can't believe anybody would complain about it. Of course if they fix the bugs in this mini-game(the money doubling thing, the fact that npc's won't use face cards against you) it could become less useful.


 * I suppose you are the kind of player who uses exploits to beat a game? I didn't get Fallout to play cards, I got it to explore the world. Making it so easy to win caps takes the challenge out of the game. Maybe they should just make all enemies one hit kills, would you enjoy that?


 * I found myself with vast amounts of caps I didn't need. Caravan's fail AI does make it easy to get money, but money isn't as useful for gaining loot as simply going around killing guys with guns is.  Meanwhile, it's just plain FUN to come in with a card deck from the future, composed of the slimmest, rarest and deadliest set you could get your hands on, and annihilate the poor AI.  Just don't bet the AI every red cent they have, if it disturbs you to get filthy rich in 45 seconds. 70.100.85.253 20:36, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

I like to make a deck with only 6, 8, 9, 10 numbered cards and just jacks and kings for face cards, it makes things go much faster.


 * Try just 10 nines, 10 eights, and 10 kings, if you can find 'em. As long as you get a good mix, just put down a nine, double it, then add an eight (that's 9*2+8, or 26). Do that for all three piles, and WIN. Nathan Hale 22:26, November 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * With the 6,8,9,10,K strategy (I like to eliminate Jacks eventually, though with the patch changes I might need to stop doing that), 8s and 10s are more valuable than the other number cards, since they can be paired either with each other (K on 8 for 16, and a 10 for 26) or on the other cards (K on 9 + 8, K on 10 + 6). I haven't played Caravan today or yesterday, and I didn't have the patch before yesterday, so I don't know what's changed in the patch. -- 12:45, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Rules?
The rules state this: "The game begins with each player taking eight cards from their deck and placing either one numerical card or Ace on each of their caravans. A player may not discard during this initial round." But I seem to be able to discard as many cards as I want before setting down the first card in my first caravan and sometimes until all the caravans have been started for that matter. Is this broken?
 * is already denoted in the Bug section of the article
 * Is written in the article like it is played in game though?
 * Most the the original writers of the article placed high value on the article reflecting what was written in the game, and anything not working as written should be reported as bug in hopes of it being fixed. I'm not currently playing the game (My video card crashed and burned, be about another week or two before I replace it. just not high on my list)  Anyways modified the writing to reflect that style of writing, denoting first what the designers seemed to want then noting it doesn't work that way and referring them to the bug section.  This also makes it easier to clean up later, if they ever fix it.

No Bets Bug
I Have a bug where all caravan player dont make any bets at all, always only 0 caps. Game glitched?


 * I am having the same problem on the PC version. 216.232.238.83 23:39, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

I'm having this problem too. Is there any way to fix it?

Barter Skill
Barter appears to affect how much of their current total wealth someone will bet on Caravan. With a high enough Barter skill, you can win it all in a a single game.

Cliff's Limit.
The newest Xbox 360 patch seems to have added the 5 game limit to him. It also has fixed the problem where new cards wouldn't go into your deck.
 * Is it the new patch that has removed the Play Caravan option from Cliff, Nash and Lacey? (360) Spellunker 19:06, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

Lacey and Nash too. Fuck that noise. Looks like I'll just have to avoid the patch.86.42.220.26 21:06, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

Since I got it I've just been reverse pickpocketing caps to the guy outside gun runners (convenient to fast travel to) which works splendidly.

80.5%?
How do you get someone to bet 80.5%? as described in the article?


 * Though the article states that a merchant will bet 81.5% of his/her wealth not 80.5%, I would also like to know how this is done. Morl 06:22, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

inaccurate numbers/bug?
The page says that some people can only play caravan five times, but I was only able to play with Cliff Briscoe twice. Anyone else have this happen?/ maybe somebody needs to recheck their numbers? S F I R 05:26, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Winning Strategy
My favorite strategy is easy to win with. You can only do it with a deck you have been putting together for a while, but you can make some substitutions and still win often. You take out all of your cards accept for 6s, 10s, and Kings. You need at least 8 of each for the 6 and 10, and the rest Kings. If you don't have enough cards yet you can use Jacks, 9s, and 7s or 8s. The way you do it may be obvious: you play either a 6 or a 10 on each caravan, and then a King on the 10s. All you do then is play the other card and you have 3 stacks of 26. You can take time waiting to draw a specific card by screwing up your opponent with Kings or Jacks. The trick is realizing that you don't need any more than 30 cards in your deck to play. You can cut cards you won't need like Aces, 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, Queens, and Jokers. Serose8


 * I have been playing with a similar strategy. I stacked my deck with 6's, 8's, 10's, and K's.  You can play a 10+K with a 6, or an 8+K with a 10.  When (if) you get the deck at the beginning of the game, remove everything except the 6's, 8's, 9's, 10's, J's and K's.  That's 28 cards, so pick 2 cards to make a deck of 30 (I picked the two jokers) and discard them if they come up.  The sets of cards you can use to get exactly 26 are: 10+K with a 6, 8+K with a 10, 9+K with an 8. -- jimnms 07:51, January 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I play with a deck consisting of 8's, 10's, K's with a couple of J's. Where possible start with an 8 on each caravan, then lay down a 10 on top.  You can then either K your 8 for a 26, or play an 8 of the same suit as the 10 for a 26.  Then use your K's and J's to bust your opponents caravans if there's a tie.


 * A highly effective strategy that i use is this: Build a deck including all of your legal number cards 6-10 (excluding ace-5), face cards excluding queens, and jokers. It doesn’t matter if you only have the starter deck that Ringo gives you, this is a strong deck. Jacks and jokers (sometimes even kings) are useful tools for foiling your opponent’s plans should the need arise. Based on the cards you draw, you should be able to begin 3 of several simple number strings that will add up to 26 within 3 plays in a single caravan. h=hearts s=spades c=clubs d=diamonds K=king 10d+6c+10c = 26 9h+8s+9s = 26 8s+10c+8c = 26 6+10/K = 26 8+9/K = 26 10+8/K = 26 10+9+7 = 26  Suits are interchangeable on the first three examples, but the last two cards must be the same suit as well as  a different suit than the first card. The other four are playable backwards and forwards with kings capable of being added at any time. With these combinations in mind, it should be a simple task to put together two strong caravan sales within 4-5 more turns after the first three bids. During those 4-5 turns, try to determine which caravan your opponent is going to sell first and work toward selling your other two non-rivaling caravans. Even if your opponent manages to sell a second caravan by the time you sell your two, you will generally out sell your opponent’s rivaling caravan (just be sure to not allow your opponent to sell a second caravan before you have sold it’s rival). If luck is not in the cards for you number-wise, then that means you have plenty of face cards to foil your opponent’s plans with until you get the numbers you need. ~kev~


 * rooster teeth strategy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AorCJkgie_s


 * Overall, I think the two earlier posters are right. The best Caravan deck is a Quick-Win, 10, 8, k, j deck. It works similarly to the "rooster teeth" strategy deck in the video above but with a few key differences.


 * The deck is comprised of:


 * x9 10s
 * x8 8s, as many of the same suit as possible.
 * x7 Kings
 * x6 Jacks


 * Depending on how you feel, you might want to make slight adjustments to the number of each card.


 * Just like the video above, the idea is just to reach 26 as quickly as possible. At the begining of the game, you would then ideally want to have a hand of:


 * x3 10s,
 * x2 8s,
 * x2 Kings
 * x1 Jack


 * If your hand is poor, consider discarding less necessary cards until it looks closer to the above.


 * Again, I strongly recommend watching the above "rooster teeth" strategy video to learn how this deck and how similar caravan strategies work. Anyway, once you get it, the differences aren't much. You first put down a 10 or an 8 (ideally a 10), and then put the other numbered card on top of that. If you initially put down an 8, you put a 10 on top of it at your next turn. If it was initially a 10, then you put an 8 on top of it. Then on your third turn, you put a king on your 8. The king doubles the affect of your 8, increasing the total to 26 (10 + 8 + 8 = 26). Additionally, if necessary, you can play an 8 of the same suit on an earlier 8, again bringing the total to a perfect 26 (this is why you want as many of the same suit as possible, and why playing 10s first is preferable to 8s).


 * Now, with the newest patch, caravan players are a heck of a lot smarter. That's where the kings and the jacks come in. Playing a Jack on any card will remove that card and any face card attached to it. And kings will double any numerical card's value. Often, they'll play jacks and kings on your caravans to mess your strategy up. The jacks you draw are used to counteract the kings they place on your caravans, as well as destroy their caravans when you have too many jacks (or if their not countering your caravans at all). And as for your kings, you can use them to play on your opponents caravans to cap their totals over 26, effectively negating that caravan. However, it's only a good idea to do this if you have too many kings than necessary in your hand. However, keep in mind your main goal is still to make caravans before they do. Only use Jacks and Kings to counteract your opponents moves when you can't supplement your own.


 * Their is three main reasons why this is superior over a "rooster teeth" strategy that incorporates jacks. First, this deck incorporates kings not only as a numerical adding card, but also gives them the possibility of being used offensively when you have too many. Secondly, this deck has some queen defense, that say, a 10, 9, 7 deck doesn't have. Now I have yet to see an npc really use queens offensively, but even they wanted to against this deck, this deck has a semi-built in defense against it. The only thing a queen might disrupt is an 8 of the same suit being played on another 8. But thanks to your kings, you don't have to worry about that too much. And finally, is the fact that you can top off your caravans with either a king or an eight to make 26. This means your chances of drawing the card you need to make a perfect caravan is several times higher than any other deck I know of. In this deck setup particularly, you have a one in two (15 out of 30) chance of drawing either a king or an eight.


 * Overall, I've got to say the original poster was brilliant. They took the strategy involving 10s, 9s, and 7s and made it slightly more effective by simply supplementing jacks and kings.--69.205.180.81 15:22, August 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Great tips, thank you so much Anon!--The.true.samiam 22:50, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Can't play at all.
No matter what I do it always says "You need at least 30 cards...". I've talked to Ringo, I have a Caravan Deck from him, I have over 60 cards, I've tried putting all my cards into storage and taking them out again. Nothing let's me play. What's going on? (Xbox 360, updated, Tribal pack and Dead Money DLC)

So I'm not the only one. I have this exact same problem. I KNOW I have more than 30 cards by at least 2x. I know I got a deck from Ringo and one off of Joe Cobb's body. Yet I get the same 'error' message each time I try to play with anyone. "You need at least 30 cards...". This was NOT the case prior to adding the latest DLC.

I am having the same problem with it saying that "You need at least 30 cards...", which DLC is it that is cousing this.

Whats the easyest way to get the Caravan Mater acheivement?????
And does the luck skill help at all??!?!


 * to my knowledge luck has no influence on Caravan. In addition, the easiest way would be to choose one of the better decks listed in the "winning strategy" section of this talk page. Either the 10, 8, k, j deck I mention, or a 10, 9, 7, j deck. The key is just learning how to play Caravan in the first place, which is most easily done by watching instructional youtube videos, like the one listed in that section.--69.205.180.81 05:41, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Achievement Name
There seems to be a recent back and forth editing of the achievement name for winning 3 games of Caravan. The correct name is "Know When to Fold Them." It is listed as "Know When to Fold Them" on the Achievements and trophies page here, as well as well as these pages: --jimnms 21:22, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * PC Achievements (Steam)
 * Xbox 360 Achievements
 * PS3 Trophies
 * thank god somebody besides me has realized this and stands in my corner. i've changed it twice now. the object here should not be to have your edit stick, but to have the correct edit stick. ~kev~

reset
will their gold reset?(Vvardenfell 08:58, March 20, 2011 (UTC))


 * Oddly enough, it does, but it depends on the NPC. I've noticed with the newest patch for instance No-Bark seems to regenerate a ton of caps out of no where. However, it doesn't seem like Ringo for instance does at all. He'll almost always be penny-less once you mud-stomp his caravan deck a few times. From what I can tell, the npcs that never do are the merchant ones. It's probably related to the fact that the caps they use in caravan are also related to the supply of caps that they use to supply their shops. I.e. if you sell them something, they'll use less caps for caravan, and if you buy something, they'll use more caps in caravan.--69.205.180.81 06:33, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

AI
I think the thing that really cripples this game isn't its basic design. As a card game it works well, everything is structured. Try playing it with friend (we share a standard deck of cards and alternate drawing). You've got cards that can harm your opponent, buff yourself, you've got rules and restrictions on how you can win, and there's enough conditions that keep things interesting. The "discard until perfect hand" cheat doesn't work in reality. It only works in new vegas because openents don't play face cards on your stacks. If you had a "perfect" hand and your opponent used a jack, king or even a joker that tactic wouldn't work.

Therefore it's not caravan that's at fault (though a more in depth tutorial would have been good) it's the AI.


 * Agreed. However, with the newest patch update they actually do use some strategy against you now.--69.205.180.81 06:37, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

X Y Sensitivity
I had been having problems selecting cards in the hand and placing cards, and discovered that if you zero out your x and y sensitivities the game becomes much easier, I found that I was accidently putting in the wrong cards much less often.8.25.243.16 23:52, April 29, 2011 (UTC)

If you have trouble winning
watch this video, it is a toutorial to almost always win, you will likeley lose however if you manage to drag the game on, so go for the quick victory, target only two of your own caravans. I tried this strategy and it constantly works.

[]


 * This strategy won't "always" guarantee a win anymore, at least not with the most recent patch. In fact, this deck isn't even as good as the 10, 9, 7 deck used in this video: . The reason for that is you have more differential cards to draw from in your deck (four types, opposed to three). Which increases your chances of not drawing the cards you need to draw at specific turns. In addition, the video makes no mention of what other 14 cards you should use to supplement your deck with; which will just confuse new players who still don't understand the game completely. But anyway, the only decks that work now, against every npc, are the ones that implement jacks. Because they are the only cards that can remove kings placed on your caravans.--69.205.180.81 05:54, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

What happed to Caravan?
caravan us to be so ez and now i cant win it almost look likes they cheat because u cant dot he same


 * The patch updated npc strategies. They now play face cards on top of your caravans, which they didn't do before in the previous patch. Most notably, jacks and kings. One of the more powerful decks pre-patch was a 10, 9, 7 deck. The idea was just to hit 26 before they even had a chance to reach 26 themselves. It worked nearly every time. But now if you try that deck, any king placed on top of one of your caravans completely nukes the strategy. Which is why you should now implement decks that include jacks, and possibly kings, to counteract their strategies.--69.205.180.81 05:44, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

This game sucks!!!
As the title says. Even with the appropriate cards I catn seem to win, WTF I cant even draw and use cards from my own deck after the the opponent drew his/her first card. This is ridiculous (this was typed after som drinking). --Radnus 00:06, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

Newest Patch Updated NPCs
I felt it was more than necessary to add this topic on the page. Many, many players are confused as to why they're losing Caravan games. It's because with the newest patch, npcs will now place face cards on your caravans. Chiefly jacks and kings. Jacks remove any card their placed on top of. And if it's a face card, it'll also remove the card attached to that face card. So decks that use kings as a additive value to your own caravans need to be especially careful. Additionally, kings placed on your caravans will double the numerical value of whatever card their placed on. So if you have a perfect 26 caravan, and your last card was a 10, a king placed on that caravan will bump the total to 36; effectively negating that caravan. In order to counteract these strategies, the newest generation of caravan decks need to implement jacks, and maybe kings. Jacks can be used to remove kings placed on your caravans. But more importantly they can also be used in the same way that they are being used to destroy your own caravans. Which will allow you to delay your opponent's turns. Kings can be used to double the value of your opponents cards. Which in turn will negate that opponent's caravan if it's over 26. It is also great at delaying an opponent's turns because if an opponent plays a jack on it, the fact that the king is a face card forces the jack to also take whatever card the king is attached to. For example: if the npc has a perfect caravan of 7, 9, and 10 (equaling 26), and you play a king on the 10, it'll change that caravan to a new total of 36. If your opponent were to play a jack on it, not only would the king be removed, but the 10 attached to that king would also be removed, making the new caravan total 16. This move would ideally delay your opponent at least two turns. Once to play the jack. And twice to replace the 10 with another 10. And possibly more if they have to use two cards instead of a 10.--69.205.180.81 06:05, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

I've been playing a new character recently and I noticed something interesting while playing Caravan with Cliff...

If you ask to play a game, then cancel (i.e. not actually play a hand); this counts towards the 5 game limit.

...seriously, this is crap. Such a simple thing, how'd they stuff this up?

So, word to the wise. If you accidentally click that option to play caravan with anyone that has a game limit, load a save game. Heck, save before you talk to them.

I haven't tested this with any other NPCs except the owner of the big dino, but better safe than sorry. On a side note, is there a way to reset the game counter to play more games? --Keeper3 09:09, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Caravan player interaction infoboxes
On every single character's page that is listed as playing Caravan in this article, the infobox that displays the list of NPC interactions was showing that the character did not play Caravan. This is due to the fact that in the wiki code for these NPC interaction infoboxes was using "caravan player =yes" instead of "caravan_player =yes". I have corrected these infoboxes, but I have not made any attempt to verify that any of these NPCs actually do or do not play Caravan. 184.88.235.102 18:24, November 6, 2011 (UTC)