User talk:Ant2242/Archive 3

RPG
Don't sweat it. I was confused too when I saw it, till I browsed ahead and saw familiar images. :) Tagaziel (talk) 08:03, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Dialogue files
Ant, I suggest making generic faction dialogue into separate dialogue files (since they'e shared by multiple characters) and simply linking to them from unique characters' dialogue pages. Also, just tell me what you need uploaded, Ant. Posting non-converted text looks bad. Tagaziel (talk) 17:15, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, what if I sent you the entire dialogue from FNV in a spreadsheet, so that you can sort it by character and faction to get both? That way you won't have to upload the entire disjointed mass of text, but create already processed dialogue files? Tagaziel (talk) 17:38, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

We'll take another approach. You'll be setting up the character dialogue pages and I'll be uploading the relevant dialogue files, OK? Tagaziel (talk) 17:48, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Create the articles for the dialogue files you want me to upload. I've exported the entire dialogue and can sort through it easily. Tagaziel (talk) 17:52, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Excel
That's what I did. I copy pasted into excel, edited it there and have been pasting it over to the dialogue article. Shadowrunner(stuff) 19:58, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Dialogue files
Thank you, both of you <3. Tagaziel (talk) 14:42, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Holodisk
Yes, it is. However, as far as I know, it's not present anywhere in the game and it doesn't add any message to your PIP-Boy. Tagaziel (talk) 20:17, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Lord Death
By my count, there are (at most) 250-ish weapon pages that need to be altered like Mara and Paladin did over at Nukapedia to reflect the 4% bonus from Lord Death. It'll go faster if we split up the work; you want to take the melee and unarmed pages (~110) and I can take guns, energy weapons and explosives? --Kastera (talk) 21:18, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Lord Death wasn't much of a problem on the projectile/explosive weapons I did, except for weapons that have an added effect (e.g. fire damage, lighting damage, etc.). Watch out for those if do choose to help update the melee/unarmed weapons pages with similar added effects. Something more prominent was that the effect of Ain't Like That Now was not on many pages. Other odd pages didn't have Lord Death or Bloody Mess altogether. But for now, I'm done. 80+ edits in 2.5 hours is making my brain pour out my ears and my eyeballs fall out from my head. --Kastera (talk) 00:24, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I can handle adding parameters to the Guns and Energy Weapons (if they're absent). You focus on Melee Weapons for now. If you can do melee with confidence, go onto unarmed. Before getting started, I advise looking at Template:Infobox weapon gamebryo and scroll down to to get to know the infobox parameters for perks. Also look at a melee weapon page example to help you see patterns in the code (Bowie knife is a good example. See here). Things to keep in mind (for melee weapons):
 * Make sure that the perks Bloody Mess (0.05), Lord Death (0.04), Thought You Died (0.1), Heavy Handed (0.2), Melee Hacker (0.1), Slayer (0.3) and Ain't Like That Now (0.2) are in the infobox. If they aren't, put them there.
 * Bloody Mess, Lord Death, Thought You Died and Heavy Handed all increase damage by what's in the parentheses above (the infobox talks in decimals rather than percents so the perk effects have to be adjusted to make it work. i.e. Bloody Mess's +5% bonus = 0.05, Thought You Died's +10% bonus = 0.1, etc.)
 * Melee Hacker, Slayer, and Ain't Like That Now all increase the attack speed of the weapon by what's in the parentheses above. (Again, the infobox talks in decimal, so Melee Hacker's 10% faster attack = 0.1, Ain't Like That Now's 20% faster attack = 0.2, etc.)
 * Some weapons have extra effects. Perks that add extra base damage also add extra effect damage at the same rate.
 * Some weapons have perks that affect them, but not other weapons, like in the case of Cowboy, Pyromaniac, and Grunt. Be on the lookout for these kinds of perks (they're probably already listed, but just in case).
 * Only add perks that affect weapons all the time (i.e. not just against certain enemies)
 * If you need help, ask me for confirmation. If not, have fun. --Kastera (talk) 06:38, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Melee Hacker
Melee Hacker only applies to melee weapons. Do not apply the perk to unarmed weapons. --Kastera (talk) 20:28, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The Lonesome Road perk is conditional (whether or not you have a companion), so it should be left out of the infobox. --Kastera (talk) 04:35, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Audio files menu
What menu do you refer to? VaultAusir (talk) 08:10, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Weird, I do see the menu button myself... What browser are you using? VaultAusir (talk) 16:26, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Weird, I'm using Chrome myself. Can you show me a screenshot of how it looks for you, so I can send it to the tech team if needed? VaultAusir (talk) 16:34, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Looks like it's because the ones on the Desmond Lockheart page had "135px" at the end of the file link. Once I removed that part, the "menu" buttton appeared. 16:45, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Audio needed tags
I'm growing against these tags. They serve no real purpose, as audio files are not essential elements of an article, performing a merely decorative role. They also create the illusion of incompleteness, when in reality, the article may be complete, thorough, and feature-class. I think we should remove them for now, until we have someone willing to spend time and effort to set them all up. Tagaziel (talk) 15:29, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The simplest answer would be: Everything. The tags are to be used in situations where there is necessary data missing, such as missing infobox entries, inventory information, and so on. That's what bothers me. Tagaziel (talk) 17:23, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Message for Tagaziel
Ant, it's Jspoel from Nukapedia. Can you forward this message to Tagaziel? I can't because his talkpage is admin protected.

Hi Tagaziel. As a fellow fan of high quality images I've been wondering for a while now how you create your high resolution images. For example when you look at File:FNV 5$ bill.png or the cigarette pack on Facebook, those are sharper than I can achieve on my PC and I have everything set to max. I have the bill image as a blurry nif file and the Big Boss logo you see on Nuka is the max I can get as a result. Your in-game images also have sharper lines to them. Creating them as .png doesn't make a real difference. Do you have a high end videocard or are you using a mod texture pack of some kind? Or a special monitor. I'm curious to know. Just wanted to relay this message and ask you. I'll understand if you want to keep it for yourself given your position. Give it some thought, ok? Jspoel

Bots
Alas, I am technologically retarded and do not know how to program bots. If I did, I would have done it looong ago. Regardless, what are you in need of a bot for? --Kastera (talk) 22:32, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Your input plz
I propose a major change to our interactions tables to improve the browsing experience. Tagaziel (talk) 12:27, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Not broken
Dude, the file transcripts are OK. The diamonds with question marks represent "..." and appear when anyone opening the .MSG files doesn't have the proper encoding set up in whatever text editor they use. They appear correctly for me in any file. Tagaziel (talk) 15:36, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, but I don't see the point of replacing improper punctuation with those diamonds. Tagaziel (talk) 19:04, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * How about I just send you the files so that you can verify them and cut down on time needed? Tagaziel (talk) 20:47, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Refs cont
Class goes under the tag skills heading, to put it in context.

The "current" format (one I do not use) is confusing, for reasons previously stated. It mentions two characters in the same line, appearing confusing to the reader. I also don't really believe there's a point to mentioning the dialogue file, as it is enough to mention the character. The dialogue file is linked to on the character's page. I agree that we need to include the context, but linking to the entire dialogue file is superfluous. Look:


 * Elizabeth Jameson's dialogue: "Sure, I've got all the time in the world." (The Lone Wanderer) "Good. As I'm sure you've noticed, the Brotherhood operates all over the DC ruins, often detached from the main base here at the Citadel. We're short on communication equipment, so many of the groups in the field operate as independent cells without standing orders. Sometimes... I'm afraid that their missions end in their deaths. As keeper of the Scrolls, it's my charge to write of each fallen Brother's deeds."


 * Lone Wanderer: "Sure, I've got all the time in the world." Elizabeth Jameson: "Good. As I'm sure you've noticed, the Brotherhood operates all over the DC ruins, often detached from the main base here at the Citadel. We're short on communication equipment, so many of the groups in the field operate as independent cells without standing orders. Sometimes... I'm afraid that their missions end in their deaths. As keeper of the Scrolls, it's my charge to write of each fallen Brother's deeds."

The latter clearly identifies this as an exchange. The reader can easily tell who speaks to whom and can easily find the dialogue file by clicking on Elizabeth Jameson.

Ant, please. Can you not treat me like an idiot who doesn't know how to write citations? Tagaziel (talk) 17:41, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know, Ant. You're a great guy and a great researcher, it's just that references are pretty close to my heart. The point is to identify the source of a given statement. Both of our proposed models aim for the same goal and differ in minute. As I said, I'm fine with including links to dialogue files when a character uses multiple ones or a page is not present for various reasons. However, I also believe that it's unnecessary to include them for situations where there is only one dialogue file, linked on the character's page.
 * Can you trust me on this? I did modify the character infobox based on your proposal, so consider it a quid pro quo. :) Tagaziel (talk) 18:24, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * We could. A manual of style could serve us all well. Tagaziel (talk) 18:37, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Until we do, may I suggest not correcting each other's references? Tagaziel (talk) 18:49, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

GECK class
It's mostly the same as class. I'm including it in the tag skills section because it's the only place that puts it in proper context. Tagaziel (talk) 19:00, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Because it makes more sense in context. It's not even a game mechanic, just a relic of Oblivion/Morrowind. Tagaziel (talk) 21:01, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Me? Hard work?
Dude you've like literally editted every page ever Nitty the Kitty! 16:45, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

A compromise

 * The standardized references are there for a reason: To link directly to the source for the claim. Including the specific heading is completely unneeded. Also, the above point. Tagaziel (talk) 14:23, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Aaaaaant, what do you think about the compromise? Tagaziel (talk) 06:34, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Aaaaaant, why are you "correcting" my references when we agreed not to do so until an unified reference format is agreed upon? Tagaziel (talk) 07:57, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Dem Chems
You know, I have no idea. Chem is a slang term for drugs, so it's possible that this is a regional difference (Fallout and Fallout 2 had slightly different versions released in NA and the EU). It's not a big deal, however, as these are cosmetic. Tagaziel (talk) 15:03, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Trust me, it doesn't. As far as I can tell, these are regional differences and neither takes precedence. Focus on punctuation errors, since those abound. Both drugs and chems refer to the same thing and are used in the games.Tagaziel (talk) 18:19, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The best thing you can do is compile a list of regional differences (eg. drugs being used in the US release and chems in the EU one). Tagaziel (talk) 18:24, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Both drugs and chems are used in the releases, though one term is used in the American version, the other in the European one. It's one of the very few examples of censoring, I believe. Whatever you do, make sure you are consistent (though I'd prefer retaining the American version, with drugs instead of chems, as it's the most faithful version). Tagaziel (talk) 18:35, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll do it all tomorrow. Sorry for frustrating you brother, I know how that feels. :( Tagaziel (talk) 20:22, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Proto numbers
PRO_CRIT.MSG_(Fallout) and PRO_CRIT.MSG_(Fallout 2) have proto numbers. It's the first column. Just delete the last two numbers and you have it ({7600}{}{Ian} becomes {76}{}{Ian}). :) Tagaziel (talk) 14:41, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Concerning interaction project

 * If you're going to help with the new interactions project, start from the end of the Fallout 2 characters and I will meet you in the middle. As Tag puts it, he "[hasn't] yet redirected the FO3/FNV interactions template to the new one to minimize the transition chaos." Lesson of the day: stay away from the newer games. --Kastera (talk) 17:49, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Ammo and stuff
Nah, no problem. Just correct it if you happen upon it. By the way, redirects can be linked to without problems. Leave them be if they point to the correct article. They exist to make our life easier. Tagaziel (talk) 13:02, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Crowbarring
That's OK, I should have said something earlier if it was bothering me. It's just that a stray ref can look tacky if it's not being used to prove anything, or (depending where it's placed) it could look like it proves something when it actually has nothing to do with the preceding sentence. We don't want to be deceiving anyone :P. Anyway, thanks for putting them in a "ref reserve" for the future. --Kastera (talk) 04:14, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Pendragon
It's the title of Uther. No last names in the Medieval times. Tagaziel (talk) 15:15, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Khaaaaaans!
I'm against the merging of Khans with Great Khans because they are really two different entities separated by time and (to an extent) actual doctrines. It's kind of like comparing English colonists in America to modern day Americans; they're technically the same, but different enough to be kept separate. If needed, transcribe the history of the Great Khans from the main Khans page, but lumping all the different Khans together is not right. --Kastera (talk) 04:29, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Mutant overviews
Would it be sufficient to name generic NPCs by their race and game (e.g. "Ghoul (Fallout)", "Super mutant (Fallout)", "Ghoul (Fallout 2)", etc.)? --Kastera (talk) 16:03, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Finding the specifics
If you want to find a specific word in a phrase, just ctrl+f and type in the word, like, for example "Med-X". Which is how I found those quotes. Shadowrunner(stuff) 01:59, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Response
I'm not sure. The race categories seem to be a general list of all characters of a given race. Let me ponder this for a bit.

Second, the Khans and Great Khans remain separate, same reason why we have separate articles on the Brotherhood and the Mojave Chapter. Tagaziel (talk) 16:40, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Ref dump
Crowbarring refs into pages is getting kind of ugly, so I've set aside User:Kastera1000/Ant's ref dump for you to use when your scrounging for refs. This way, you can keep track of refs and keep the underdeveloped information out of the main space, and I can see what has to be worked in. Just make a heading for the page you think it should be worked into and dump to your hearts content. (That sounded a little gross...) --Kastera (talk) 19:05, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Show me all of your ref dump pages so I can help empty/lessen them. 2) After listing the ref, put in parentheses which page(s) you think the ref belongs in. 3) Please, please, please stop putting only refs into articles. ;) --Kastera (talk) 19:16, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I may have a solution that makes us both happy: you continue to crowbar (and proclaim in the edit summary when you do), but place around the refs so people can't see the clump of orphan refs. That way, I know that I need to work them in, and they don't make the page unpleasantly cluttered. --Kastera (talk) 17:10, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Dialogues
I'd prefer if you didn't put the entire dialogue tree in the references, but only the relevant bits. The entire tree is very messy, as seen on the Hubology glossary page. Tagaziel (talk) 19:13, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It's unnecessary. References are for pointing to specific elements, dumping the entire tree there is confusing and misleading. Here's how I'd break down the conversation:


 * {119}{}{Chosen One? Don't you mean AHS-One? Just what text are you working from?}


 * {125}{}{Oh. Well, are you seeking true understanding and spiritual peace? We can help.}


 * {141}{}{Honestly! I don't know what they expect me to accomplish surrounded by such rim meat!}


 * {143}{}{"Lost are those who will not seek the Hub." If you should ever change your mind, you are always welcome.}


 * {150}{}{A primitive belief - but you show signs of great promise. We can show you the higher path. Would you like to know more?}


 * {165}{}{The Church of Hubology exists to free mankind from the chains that have kept his full spiritual potential in shackles.}


 * {168}{}{That is not an ability that I possess. Is there something else that I can help you with? An alignment perhaps?}


 * {176}{}{Transcendency? Honestly, how do they expect me to spread the word out here when they don't even keep me up-to-date on the latest doctrine!?}


 * {179}{}{So you're saying there's some higher power who creates us with a purpose and then just abandons us? I can't believe any being would be so callous. Come, embrace the Church of Hubology. Let us show you the true way.}
 * {180}{}{What true way?}
 * {182}{}{Without control of your own life, though, what's the point? Nothing you do has any value. Did you choose to get up this morning? No, you're just a puppet by your own philosophy. Now, we at the church of Hubology have a true answer.}


 * {185}{}{Oh, what a sad and empty philosophy that is! Even if it were true, the only course for you is to seek to develop yourself. It is the only thing you have any control over. The Church of Hubology can help.}

Each should be its own reference, for clarity. Conversations should be retained when it's absolutely necessary. I don't like the length of Madame Modjeska references, but the entire conversation is the best way to show references. Tagaziel (talk) 08:03, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

M.A.R.Go.T.
You're asking the wrong person, but I maybe can help troubleshoot. I recall that you're able to pose a senator (was that what you were thinking?), but not a soldier. Also, have you checked to see if there could be more than one dialogue file for Margot? I remember the feral ghoul body temperature thing too. --Kastera (talk) 19:25, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Raul's family
I don't understand why you feel it's necessary to include that Raul had a mother, father and grandmother. Including his brothers and sisters I can understand, because not everyone has brothers or sisters, but literally everyone in the world has a mother and father, and by extension, a grandmother. It seems completely redundant and unnecessary to me. --Kastera (talk) 05:07, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I know you did, but we should only logically mention things that people wouldn't know right off the bat. It's a no brainer that Raul had a mother, father, and grandmother, so there's no point in including them in his family list on the infobox. His parents and grandmother are mentioned in the background, so it's not like we're totally distancing ourselves from their influence on Raul. --Kastera (talk) 05:26, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
 * But it's only adding unnecessary bulk to the infobox. It shouldn't matter if they are mentioned explicitly because everyone already knows he had parents and grandparents. Not everyone would know he had three sisters and two brothers. --Kastera (talk) 05:54, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Sortable
It doesn't affect how the dialogue is displayed when the page loads and simply allows to filter by Conversation/Topic/Greeting/Radio and other table elements. It adds functionality and doesn't detract from the way the dialogue file is presented. Tagaziel (talk) 11:10, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * And? Tagaziel (talk) 16:45, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Only if someone presses the sortable button. Chances are, they know what they are doing. Also, yes on the overview. Tagaziel (talk) 21:57, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Chupacabra nightkin
My gut is telling me that the 'chupacabra' is the GECK ID for the nightkin that is killing brahmin in Novac in The Screams of Brahmin unmarked quest. --Kastera (talk) 22:10, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
 * K9000 and FIDO are minguns, I think. They don't have the rotating barrels, but they do have alternating barrels and are automatic, which is close enough to a minigun for me. --Kastera (talk) 03:57, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the Chupacabra is that Novac nightkin. Tagaziel (talk) 13:42, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Cut content
In the context of the entire wiki, the term cut content is used exclusively to material that was cut from the game before release. Not afterwards. Simply note in the article that for memory management, the characters were removed with patch #x, without adding them to the Cut categories, as they were present at release. Tagaziel (talk) 13:42, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I use the following:


 * Tagaziel (talk) 07:37, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Rondo
It's not the name of a class. It's the name of the proto. There is no class in Fallout or Fallout 2. Use the generic name if it comes up, but for the love of M'Atra, don't include it if it's a character name. Tagaziel (talk) 20:13, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Which is why I'm asking you not to use it in lieu of class name if the proto is intended for a specific character. It's enough to note that in the proto section. Tagaziel (talk) 20:33, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Dude, write
You know, there's no reason why you can't just write articles, rather than dump references into them. From what I see, you have a better grasp of English than many people born in English-speaking countries. Besides, you won't improve without exercise. :) Tagaziel (talk) 10:28, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I thought so too, until I started to write. Only practice can make you better! Plus, you have much of the writing materials ready, all you have to do is reforge those references into writing.
 * As for the background, I'm currently fiddling around with it to establish a more distinct visual identity for us. I'll probably revise and change it soon-ish. Tagaziel (talk) 19:00, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Just remember, even if you're going uphill in a typhoon, the wiki acts a coast guard, and others can help along the way. You aren't completely stranded at sea on a wooden dinghy with a hole in it. I hope my metaphors made sense... --Kastera (talk) 19:08, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Reference policy
I'm going to work on the policy later, but I have one question before I do: What do you mean by "Outside sources"? Is this information that was gained outside of the games, like with a Formspring or Something Awful reply? --Kastera (talk) 20:58, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Super Mutant
I think each kind of super mutant should be treated as a creature overview instead of a character overview, like for the Maripossa supes and Nightkin you're planning. Or a combination of both? Shadowrunner(stuff) 04:08, 13 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, the page for Humans isn't treated as a character, so why should the nightkin and maripossa super mutant pages be treated as such? Why not have a combination of both, so people can get a decent overview on what they're like and the stats for the character types they'll be fighting in-game?

Reference size
Dude, you're going overboard with references. There's no need to quote an entire conversation, unless the entire conversation is a source. If you replace an accurate reference with the entire dialogue tree, it becomes fuzzy and unclear as to what you're actually referencing. Tagaziel (talk) 11:45, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Also, underlining titles doesn't help. It's not consistent with the style, the link already points to the relevant article, the type of content is evident from context, and it just looks off.
 * Ant, trust a guy who works for a content writing company. :) Tagaziel (talk) 15:22, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

User page
You can turn on the classic wiki user page in options. Tagaziel (talk) 20:07, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Categories
I could see the benefit of splitting the categories and not splitting them. Category:Human characters is pretty useless as it is, but there are so many humans every game, you might as well just use the Category:Fallout X characters to find what you're looking for. However, there are only ~200 characters total in Category:Ghoul characters and Category:Super mutant characters (as opposed to Category:Human characters which has 3000+). While it's something we should do, it's not something we need to do. We'd just be making more work for ourselves. If we do split the categories, it seems like bot work. I personally do not want to comb through 3000+ articles to change Category:Human characters to Category:Fallout X human characters.--Kastera (talk) 01:04, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
 * If you're going to be altering Fallout 3 character categories, could you also alter the interaction boxes so it's one less we have to change in the future? Just remove the parameters marked with 'no'. Thanks, Kastera (talk) 17:38, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The order of categories doesn't particularly matter, but I usually change them to be in order of the premade article creation templates (e.g. Category:Fallout 3 characters, Category:Megaton characters, Category:Fallout 3 human characters). Regardless, the position of the categories are unimportant as they all result in the same thing on the respective category pages.--Kastera (talk) 17:58, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Also, that review you wanted on Tenpenny: looks good to me. --Kastera (talk) 18:03, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Unless there are categories that I don't know of, I don't think the game guide category(s) should be split. There are so few game guides that splitting them up would only make it harder to find other related articles. --Kastera (talk)

Re: Thank you
I certainly had my work cut out for me, but there's nothing some time and few deep breathes won't fix. Thanks, Kastera (talk) 04:02, 17 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I'll add in Category:Fallout 2 human characters as I work my way down the list from "O" in Category:Fallout 2 characters. --Kastera (talk) 01:20, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Dividing the dialogue files
No. It serves no useful purpose and there's no criteria we can apply to them. I would suggest focusing on updating the Interactions boxed for Fo3 and FNV characters, Ant, that's a more pressing matter. Tagaziel (talk) 14:23, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Dialogue files
Idk, really. I only found that one because you pointed it out when you edited it. Shadowrunner(stuff) 16:57, 31 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Sounds a bit unneeded to me. They're fine as is in my opinion. Shadowrunner(stuff) 20:01, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Character project charts
I don't understand how they're structured now. The idea was to go over the *character* category, not according to PRO_CRIT. Tagaziel (talk) 12:24, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't understand the list at all nor the way it is structured. I'll continue to go through the articles by category, that list is impossible to use. Tagaziel (talk) 19:03, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Outcast
It's easier to explain in list form:


 * 1) Brotherhood outcast is a generic term for anyone expelled from the Brotherhood. Elijah is a Brotherhood outcast, as is Veronica if she joins the followers.
 * 2) Brotherhood Outcast, with a capital O, refers to a member of the Brotherhood Outcasts.

Hope this helps. Also note that the word is consistently capitalized in Lyons' dialogue. Tagaziel (talk) 19:13, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * That may be, but I insist it remains capitalized. For reference, eg. Members of the Knights Templar are referred to as Knight Templar, not knight Templar. The same is with Teutonic Knights etc. Tagaziel (talk) 19:53, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Tags
Because they are not intended for use in source texts, only for main space articles. Check the wording. Tagaziel (talk) 18:47, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * It's there in the descriptiion. Dialogue files are not articles or sections, they are sources. Tagaziel (talk) 05:32, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * RE: EMP. It's specifically marked as hybrid. Electric weapons would have the same practical effect as an EMP, since the latter works by generating electricity in circuits and burning them out. Tagaziel (talk) 05:39, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Missing dialogue
I found it, it was in in Elijah's dialogue quest. For all dialogue for everyone, even the cut topics that don't have any text or audio, search for Vfreeform{insert place}, Vdialogue{insert place or person} or in the case of DLCs NVDLC{order of release}{person or place}, e.g. NVDLC01ElijahDialogue. Shadowrunner(stuff) 02:23, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Not the entirety. The vast majority of characters have their dialogue exported the right way, it's just that some were distributed over everything, like a frog in a blender without its cover. Tagaziel (talk) 07:02, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Red
If you want to make notes for yourself, you can find all the refs you've marked here. After you put those in a Word doc or .txt file, message me, so I can remove the template (or you can do it). --Kastera (talk) 02:39, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

No GECK
Remind me Ant, do you have the games on PC or a console? If the former, I can find something to help you with finding textures. Tagaziel (talk) 08:50, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/36901/?
 * The Fallout Mod Manager allows you to extract files from BSA files for browsing. It's a decent replacement for when you can't use the GECK. Out of curiosity, why is that? Tagaziel (talk) 13:36, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Cooke's dialogue
I have the entire Fallout: NEw Vegas dialogue exported and I don't see the lines you pasted in the article anywhere.Tagaziel (talk) 10:00, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Your writing
Ant, you won't improve if you don't exercise. I, Shadowrunner, Kastera, and the rest of the team will gladly edit what you write. It's a collaborative effort, after all. Plus, given what I see from your writing on talk pages etc., your English is better than the vast majority of people posting on the Internet. :) Tagaziel (talk) 05:53, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Quest name
I would assume so. What's the title of this? Shadowrunner(stuff) 02:56, 9 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I'd say only add periods for the long named ones, like "Farrel has a rodent problem in his garden. Remove the infestation." But other wise, period not needed. Ask Tag on his opinion on this, though. Shadowrunner(stuff) 03:11, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It's puzzling. I think if we don't have a source recommending we do otherwise, we should just go and use the original spelling. Tagaziel (talk) 07:34, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Dialogues
We should break down the dialogue into individual pieces as much as possible. Unless the entire conversation is relevant, excerpts from it should be used, for clarity. Also, good job on fishing Hope out. Tagaziel (talk) 18:23, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Airborne FEV
Could you direct me to where it says that airborne FEV isn't a thing, please? --Kastera (talk) 03:14, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Blown up weps
Thanks, I'm glad everyone's liking them. Shadowrunner(stuff) 03:09, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

SEC
It's from Armstrong dialogue file from the Van Buren demo. VaultAusir (talk) 23:54, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Power armor
Great job on the power armor page! See? You can write (or at least find the right places for references)! It may be time consuming but it's surprisingly gratifying after you get done with it, no? --Kastera (talk) 17:30, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Transcluding the designs as well would be for the best. I'm thinking of scraping the design section of the main power armor page entirely and placing the specifications in each respective variant section, since they tend to repeat each other. However, Adobe Shockwave is giving me a hell of a lot of trouble tonight, so if I haven't done the aforementioned stuff within about a half hour, I've quit for the night and will do it tomorrow. Or you can do it. --Kastera (talk) 06:04, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I figured that the CSA countering power armor is an assumption because during the Anchorage Reclmation, the United States was had developed and was using power armor, but the Chinese had no such thing. Instead, we see them using the stealth armor, which the Americans had not yet developed. Purely conjectural, so I removed it from the article. --Kastera (talk) 06:19, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I think I'm done for the night. The variants on the main power armor article have been changed to reflect their designs, and those pieces of information have been transcluded to the main T-45d and T51-b articles. One question though: I'd really rather not watch an entire hour of Tim Cain talking about Fallout so I can get a reference on Power armor; do you know when he starts talking about power armor? --Kastera (talk) 06:36, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Article layout
Please don't revert the changes to the 10mm pistol article. The layout guidelines are just that: Guidelines, not a stiff policy that has to be followed despite the improvements in clarity introduced by changing the layout. Tagaziel (talk) 18:21, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
 * And they are ordered that way. Regardless, it's a guideline, not a wholly binding policy. In this case, the alphabetic order is confusing and unwieldy. Tagaziel (talk) 18:35, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Because you have three models of pistols presented as if there were more separate types. Clarity above all. Tagaziel (talk) 19:43, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Inventory and weapons
Upon further review, I have to ask you to stop modifying the inventory fields to add the manufacturer and full weapon model name. Please refer to the weapons by their in-game name. H&K MP9 submachinegun, 10mm variant is too long and obscures the fact that the character simply uses a 10mm SMG. Clarity and ease of use are important. If someone is interested in the manufacturer, make and model of the weapon, they can simply visit the page for the weapon. Alternatively, you can use a tooltip. Tagaziel (talk) 10:39, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It's "wrong" because it's unnecessarily cluttering up an already compact template with superfluous information. Plus, people that don't know as much about the games as us admins could be confused (e.g. they might think that the Plasma Defender and the Glock 86 Plasma Defender are different or the 9mm pistol and the M&A 9mm pistol are different). We want to be informative, yes, but more importantly we want to be clear and easily understood. --Kastera (talk) 17:16, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Kastera is correct. The information is available at a click. The point is to ensure that the reader can quickly see exactly which weapon is used by an NPC and in this case, using just the in-game name is the quickest, easiest way to achieve that. Tagaziel (talk) 18:50, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
 * What I was doing was not wrong. I was including direct links to the game specific weapon with its game specific designation, in the Vault's current format.


 * On this note; the Glock 86 and the FNV "Plasma Defender" are the same weapon platform but not necessarily the same weapon. As it appears the "Extended capacity" mod is now standard and the scope was removed. Also the M&A is a specific manufacturer of the specific 9mm pistol.--Ant2242 (talk) 20:03, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Salvatores
Regarding the article: If you are working on the article, then copy it to a personal subpage. The main space is not for works in progress. Also of note: Prompts are not needed for most of the references, as they are simple "tell me about" prompts. Make sure your references are compact. A full conversation tree is not a reference, except for isolated instances, such as Madame Modjeska. Tagaziel (talk) 18:50, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
 * You do realize I will have to trim the references for the Salvatores article, as they're meaningless when you quote entire dialogue trees, right? Tagaziel (talk) 19:53, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I've reformatted the references. A couple of pointers:


 * 1) Do not consolidate references. Quoting an entire dialogue tree does not improve the clarity of the reference or source the statement. Quote only as much information as is necessary to source the claim. That's why I broke up Jules' conversation into several independent references.
 * 2) Do not include irrelevant elements of the conversation. Adding the bit where Louis Salvatore summons guards to kill the player character does not improve the clarity of the reference, quite the opposite.
 * 3) Did I mention that fuekhueg dialogue trees are a pain?
 * You are doing good work and praise to you. However, you're forgetting that references need to be accurate and to the point. Brevity and clarity. Tagaziel (talk) 20:22, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
 * On that count, I'm not sure which part of the Bishop references is inaccurate. All references are accurate, properly formatted, and easy to read through. Tagaziel (talk) 20:33, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Re: American Fallouts
Sorry, but you're asking the wrong person. I don't even know how to access the game/dialogue files, much less where to get American game/dialogue files. Excuse me if I sound like a smartass, but aren't the Fallout games sold in the United States all American versions? --Kastera (talk) 05:29, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

I love your work. But two things need to be stated:


 * 1) Quotes are for what the characters say and can be trimmed to get to the core of the quote. Including the prompt in the quote is crude and looks horrible.


 * 1) Wiki software includes redirects to make the navigation more fluid and elegant. Do. Not. Remove. Them. They're a normal, encyclopedic element of an encyclopedia. Furthermore, they are there to avoid stating the full personals of a character in every single instance.

Regards. Tagaziel (talk) 16:37, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Which is not what a quotation is. Take the following example:




 * Including the prompt serves no purpose. No context. It adds nothing of worth. This one, however, does, as it explains what the thing is:




 * The same goes for this one:




 * The fact that the Courier has not heard about the Big MT is completely and utterly irrelevant to the quote.




 * And another one:




 * Including the Courier's prompt serves no purpose, because Elijah's words stand on their own:




 * And so on:




 * The subject of the quote is Elijah describing how the player was not the first tool Elijah used. The prompt is unnecessary, especially since it hinges on the environment in which it is uttered.




 * And the last one, where the prompt is completely unneded:




 * Everything is included in the quote.




 * As such, I'm reverting the changes. Don't add prompts. If you need context, use the standard Quote template and describe in the second field the situation briefly (eg. Elijah on the ease of hacking a RobCo device). But use it sparingly and don't include it where it's unneeded (such as when the subject of the quote is obvious). Tagaziel (talk) 18:21, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * They don't. A quote is a carefully selected and edited fragment of a character's speech, not a perfect recreation of what they say. It's meant for illustration. If anyone's interested in what the character ha to say beyond that, that's what the dialogue page is for. Ask Kas, Shade, Raven, Nits, or others about it. Tagaziel (talk) 20:13, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Durrr, I just checked the Template:Inlinequote and it has space for context. Use it sparingly and don't quote the prompt, but provide a brief description of what happens. I.e.:


 * Tagaziel (talk) 20:33, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Raisins

 * 1) Clarity. The canon/alphbet order results in a counterintuitive mess.
 * 2) M16 is canon, as it's dropped by name in the Fo1 strategy guide.

Ask the others, but clarity is the most important thing in navigation. Tagaziel (talk) 19:56, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Amendment to ordering
Amendments, amendments! Canonicity is a bad criterion, since it's unclear and there's no definite ruling. Tagaziel (talk) 13:39, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Irvine
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Probably it's a remnant of an earlier iteration of the game, where you were collecting ancient dog tags instead of the NCR ones. Tagaziel (talk) 19:22, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Dialogue tables
I really don't have a method. I just copy and paste from the excel template Tag gave me and fix any mistakes I made before saving with previews. It's really tedious and not any faster than what other method you have. Shadowrunner(stuff) 20:37, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I check the geck to make sure I get every topic. Just to do a ctrl+f for all the topics a character has and make sure I have them all. Shadowrunner(stuff) 20:58, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Class
Just leave it as is. It gives context. If you like, link the words in bold to the Class article, but don't remove content from the infobox. Tagaziel (talk) 21:54, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Not every parameter needs a separate section. We don't have separate sections for each of the skills and derived stats. Tagaziel (talk) 10:09, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

King's chalkboard
That's just the texture I got from the files. Shadowrunner(stuff) 07:20, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Referencing
Do not consolidate references. Merged references are bad. Very, very bad. Don't include the entire bloody dialogue tree either. Doing so compromises principle #1 and #2. Tagaziel (talk) 07:57, 5 August 2014 (UTC) PS: It's completely unnecessary to say "Marcus - Stage 1" in the infobox, when the page is named Marcus and the Stage is clearly named. Nobody will have problems identifying the correct proto.
 * I'll be blunt: I don't care if you're adamant about the names. There is no need to include them, because that creates needless redundancy. There is no policy in effect that says they have to be named after proto and they won't be.
 * Regarding the references: I stopped counting the times I asked you to stop consolidating references. Do. Not. Do. It. It is unacceptable and against the guidelines we established earlier. The references have to submit to the Accuracy, Brevity, and Comprehensiveness general guidelines. Posting entire dialogue trees violates all three general guidelines, as the reference does not source anything, is not short enough to work as a reference, and is too general to act as a source.
 * As such, I'm reverting your changes to Marcus and Jacob. Tagaziel (talk) 14:13, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Addendum: Furthermore, your constant reverting removes content. Don't revert, but work on the final revision of the article. Tagaziel (talk) 14:15, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

MERGERSSSSSSSSSZZZZZZZzzz
I'd prefer to have relevant sections transcluded into individual faction articles: Khans, New Khans, and Great Khans. The New Khans name is informal, but it best describes the faction, don't you think? Tagaziel (talk) 08:15, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Mobius
Could you explain why you find it necessary to include Think Tank bickering for the source on The Sink being Mobius' old room? There is no context in it needed for clarification and it muddles the intent of using 0 as a source because his statement is hidden away beneath Klein and Dala's ranting. Also, why are you altering the notable quotes? The prompts were removed from those that didn't need them and those that did need clarifying context have it restored using the template the way it was intended. --Kastera (talk) 17:39, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Abraxo
Instead of continuing to edit war with you, can you help me see why anything after Dala's mention of an Abraxo chaser lends credence to the fact we are trying to verify (which is that Abraxo is a caustic and dangerous chemical)? --Kastera (talk) 01:09, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I can understand not wanting to be misunderstood in our references but removing those extra three lines from the Abraxo reference does not alter our understanding of Abraxo cleaner. We only need to provide information confirming that Abraxo is "deliciously deadly" (or caustic, if you prefer) and that is what my preferred ref accomplishes. I really think that the extent of every ref's response should be decided on an individual basis, depending on what is trying to be verified. --Kastera (talk) 02:05, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Now you're putting words in my mouth and I don't like that. I never said we should remove everything but Dala's response; rather, I said we should remove the three lines that come after because they contribute nothing to the reference. Keeping the lines before Dala's gives readers background on why Dala made that comparison; the lines following it do not. References are supposed to be short and sweet, not buried between irrelevant bickering. --Kastera (talk) 21:38, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

It's not a slippery slope because we are human beings that are capable of using our best judgement and common sense. As I mentioned before, the response should be decided on an individual basis, so it can be used as effectively as it can for that particular reference. Klein and Borous talking about giving the Courier the K-9000 is irrelevant when we're trying to say that Abraxo is dangerous; however Borous talking about GUNS KILLING and Dala likening Abraxo to guns and hemlock is relevant. --Kastera (talk) 22:14, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It is not a slippery slope. The reference needs to be accurate and relevant, quoting entire dialogue trees is the precise opposite of that. A reference shows exactly where the information comes from, if you include ten other responses and prompts, then you are making the reference confusing, since the reader has precisely zero idea which response and prompt actually matter for the purposes of referencing. This is also why I've been breaking up consolidated references. Accuracy, Brevity, and Comprehensiveness.
 * On an unrelated note, please refrain from adding the full make and brand of weapons to the inventory box. Saying that the character uses a hunting rifle is clear, understandable, and unambiguous. Saying that they use a Colt Rangemaster semiautomatic rifle in .223 caliber is not understandable unless you have memorized every item description in the game. Me, Kas, Shade, Raven, any dedicated editor will understand it. Casual readers? They won't. Tagaziel (talk) 08:34, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * And one more thing: Do not add "..." to character quotes. A quote, by definition, is a fragment of what someone says. The "..." is entirely unnecessary. Tagaziel (talk) 09:35, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

RC stuff
Also, noted you had some questions in the recent changes:


 * I'm checking the articles with the mapper. All raider captains had wrong loadouts on the wiki and don't carry dogtags, they are in their lockers.
 * Same for other inventories.
 * I'm surprised there's so much crap in the old articles, but once I'm through, consider them done and cleaned up.
 * I'm changing the relationships to the uniform Name (position). At the present, there's different capitalization, different naming convention, and such, this should unify them.

Keep up the good work. By the way, Torr had the wrong proto, because he wasn't assigned his own proto, but the generic villager one (003), for some reason. Tagaziel (talk) 09:57, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Saturnite
The Saturnite billboard is somewhere in Ashton, which is compatibly smaller and easier to search than Hopeville. I think that it's near where you find the Divide's only mole rats; it's been years since I lasted played LR, but I think both the rats and the billboard are near the Boxwood Hotel roof. Hope this helps, Kastera (talk) 15:55, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, no can do. I only have Dead Money and Old World Blues on PC, and I'm not spending $5 to get LR to get one screenshot. --Kastera (talk) 18:59, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Formatting
Wait, have you been making site-wide changes to formatting without asking anyone?


 * 1) Nicknames are not put in parentheses.
 * 2) The proper family format is Name (Relation). It doesn't matter if the relative is deceased and it shouldn't be mentioned in the infobox.
 * 3) The inventory section should show the in-game name, i.e. Hunting rifle instead of Colt Rangemaster rifle, in .223 caliber. The former name is instantly recognizable to anyone playing the game. The latter is not.

Format changes site-wide are to be consulted. Tagaziel (talk) 16:56, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * That is correct. I typically put in clothing whenever applicable, but since the inventory sections is intended for items actually carried by the NPC in question and to provide an overview of their inventory at a glance.
 * Nicknames can be listed next to the character's name in the top section. Quotation marks are used for quotes, not to single out nicknames, especially not in infoboxes.
 * I will go over the articles and standardize the format for family. You really should've at least told us you were doing something along these lines. This is a major formatting change. Tagaziel (talk) 17:43, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I've gone over the Fo1 and Fo2 articles, removing all references to manufacturers and weapon models. The armor sections may require updating, though that's a distant concern.
 * It isn't appropriate, because we never implemented this rule and determining which part of one's name is the nickname is more trouble than it's worth. We take them at face value: Madame Modjeska, instead of just Modjeska, because everyone calls her that. Jagged Jimmy J instead of Jimmy J, because that's his full, proper name. Big Jesus Mordino because that's how he's called.
 * We may have underestimated the extent at the time. Apologies, but the parentheses are simpler and more pleasing to the eye, not to mention that the dash has a different use. Tagaziel (talk) 18:28, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Ronald Curtis' name isn't in quotation marks. Does anyone refer to him in the game with quotation marks? He's called Ronald Curtis in the game by the NCR and Picus by the Legion. Neither is his nickname, codename, or whatever. Tagaziel (talk) 18:59, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

It isn't false, because that's what the NCR calls him. It's one of his several names.

What do you mean by cut? Normally, if you edit something you insert (...), though I have to say that this should not be used except in very specific cases. This should not be seen at all in quote templates, because quotes, by definition, are edited fragments of what a person says. Tagaziel (talk) 19:49, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * That's irrelevant. Ronald Curtis is what the NCR calls him. Picus is what the Legion calls him. Neither should be put in quotation marks.
 * There is no reason to note that quotes are edited, since quoting, by very definition, is editing. Quote templates do not need (...). Tagaziel (talk) 18:02, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Sprites
Use these: Animation frames. That's one of the reasons I spent three days converting them and uploading. Tagaziel (talk) 17:59, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Categorizing
Please do not categorize people by last name. Categorize them alphabetically by the first letter of their name. Tagaziel (talk) 16:52, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Also, why are you again adding quotation marks to names after being specifically asked not to do so? Tagaziel (talk) 16:54, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Regarding Michael Masters: His attitude can be summed up in a few words without the need for a reference, as it's evident when playing the game. Tagaziel (talk) 16:57, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Short answer: I don't know. Long answer: I saw that some FO2 character articles were categorized like that (surname, given name) so I continued that trend. It's likely unnecessary to organize them as such, considering people usually will look for someone's given name, and that's on the off chance they're using category pages to search for a character. --Kastera (talk) 21:18, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

The reason is that unlike Wikipedia, we have a relatively small number of characters to keep track of and there's no need for using DefaultSort. Users will expect to see articles categorized that way (hell, I was surprised by this). Use the regular convention. Tagaziel (talk) 15:25, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Have you discussed this? No, you didn't. I like your work, but this is one of the cases where you introduce a major change site-wide unexpectedly. Please revert the changes. I'll ask Kastera and do a portion of it myself. Tagaziel (talk) 08:12, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I can understand using it for large families (Bishops, Wrights, Mordinos, etc.), but to use it for every single character, even those with nicknames is overkill. Tagaziel (talk) 11:25, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Item icons
I think I figured out what you mean by that (seriously, ask someone for help rather than plopping down the maintenance tag and hoping we can figure out what you mean). I can upload the icons, but you will handle adding them to the articles, deal? Tagaziel (talk) 15:01, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Check Category:Fallout item icons. I'm uploading. Tagaziel (talk) 00:27, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Tesla
Sorry, I missed your message. That's from J.E. Sawyer's Fallout PnP RPG. VaultAusir (talk) 15:50, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'll finally sift through my old e-mails and add the appropriate sources soon. VaultAusir (talk) 19:53, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Holography and SMVM
We can probably explain ourselves better on talk pages that edit summaries. Can you explain to me why you think it is necessary to add quotation marks and italics to Christine's pantomiming, include everything from Elijah's quote (on the SMVM page), and have two ellipses in Elijah's quote (on the holo page)? Removing these formatting tools does not alter the meaning/understanding/context of any of the quotes and improves the readability of the reference. The game files are not the be all and end all of references; we can mold them to better serve our needs (which is to help people understand lesser known factoids as effectively as possible). --Kastera (talk) 02:11, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Frankly, it sounds like you're disagreeing with me entirely.
 * It's true that Christine's dialogue is pantomime, but pantomime does not get quotation marks or italics as verbal quotes do; it doesn't have any standard format really, but it definitely does not get punctuation marks like spoken word would.
 * The beginning of the quote depends slightly on the preceding question, but adding that question to the quote is ugly, so I altered the quote to flow better. I left out the last two sentences because it made the quote focus more on the machines themselves rather than the imprisoned Courier forced to use them, but I suppose there's no harm in keeping them in.
 * The two ellipses, one after the another, are grammatically incorrect; at maximum, there should be only one and only one ellipsis separating two interrupted thoughts. Furthermore, the removal of one ellipsis does not change the information being purveyed to the reader, which is all that matters in a reference.
 * I agree that the dialogue is the game, but we are not modifying the source material. Not one word has been added or removed, which would alter the meaning to the dialogue. Correcting grammar, in the way I have done, also does not alter the meaning of the dialogue. Humans are intelligent creatures and possess the common sense to realize when they are and when they are not changing the meaning of a sentence. Furthermore, if a reader is that skeptical of the dialogue presented, they can see the dialogue file for themselves; that is why we link the dialogue file after every quotation. --Kastera (talk) 03:03, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

I alternatively propose just stating the pantomimed actions as I tried on the SMVM page. That's how it is presented on Elijah's page, and it works well there. As for whether it is/isn't modifying source material, I've asked Tag to weigh in on this disagreement, so we'll talk it over with him. I'm just saying that because of the limitations of dialogue's ability to present itself in its entirely ingame, ellipses had to be used. However, now that the information can be presented as a single line of text in a reference, the second ellipses is not required and it is wrong to place it there. Altering it does not lead us down a slippery slope, where we're substituting words and altering entire meanings. --Kastera (talk) 03:44, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Ugh, are we having this argument again?


 * While I admire your dedication to accuracy, I don't see how removing extraneous punctuation changes the meaning of the reference. It improves readability and in no way makes the content incorrect (as it is not punctuation that's vital to the sentence, but a method of highlighting a break in a longer sentence, which has been cut down to fit within the character limit imposed by the engine), nor does it take the quote of context. I mean, seriously, you're arguing about three dots.
 * As we have discussed before, references need to be accurate. If the last two sentences of the quoted source are not relevant to the reference, they should be omitted. The reader should have no trouble identifying how the reference sources a claim made of the page and by dumping an entire paragraph where a single sentence suffices is bad referencing.
 * At any rate, doing either is not modifying the source material. Whenever we cite a source, we are quoting a fragment, not modifying the source material.
 * Christine's pantomime should not be enclosed in quotes. You can italicize it if you wish, but quotation marks are for spoken dialogue.

Now, can we get back to making this the best wiki out there? :) Tagaziel (talk) 18:34, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Wasteland 2
Hey, I've noticed you popped up on the WLWiki. Given how Fallout is a bit slow these days, would you be willing to help me out over there? Tagaziel (talk) 18:32, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Cave
You didn't have to ask my opinion if you were just going to go through with it. Regardless, the page needs to be cleaned up, as it is way too long of a page to be effective. The list should be made more compact, by using something like the expandable content template or columns template. I'm not going to do it, since it's 1:30AM where I am. I could do it in the morning, or *gasp* you could do it yourself. --Kastera (talk) 07:26, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the yao guai: it's adorable but kinda smelly. As for the Camp Guardian cave(s), at the moment, cannot confirm nor deny that the two caves are different. I think think should remain how they are, under the assumption that they have been there for four years, until one of use can confirm there are different caves. --Kastera (talk) 21:00, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Six days later and I've confirmed that there indeed two cave systems, named Camp Guardian cave and caves. However, the image for Camp Guardian cave is of Camp Guardian caves and is in need of replacement. --Kastera (talk) 03:17, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Overcoat
Ask someone with a knowledge of military decorations. They might not even exist in our world and were made for the acknowledgement of Resource War conflicts.--Kastera (talk) 20:24, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

FOBOS dialogue
I've been looking for a good walkthrough myself but unfortunately I was unable to find any. Most of them just cover the first 1-2 levels. I should probably once again borrow a PS2 (or even buy it) and record one myself. Don't know when it will happen though. As an alternative, I've heard that PCSX2 emulator was recently updated with the "Snowblind compatibility fix", so now FOBOS is marked as "playable" (except for cinematics, I believe). veryblackraven 20:37, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Ribbons
Compare them with the ribbons for existing decorations of the U.S. ARmy? Tagaziel (talk) 11:21, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Faction profiles
I trust that you have done a good job. The cleanup tags are completely unnecessary. Tagaziel (talk) 11:51, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
 * As a rule, do not remove 22k bytes of content. I've reverted the changes because you've unnecessarily removed half the article for absolutely no reason. If you want to reformat it, fine, but don't remove what's already there. Tagaziel (talk) 07:06, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
 * It isn't the "wrong section of the guide". From the context you've given, the developer background is simply an expanded faction profile, detailing its history. Leave it as is or split it into another article. Don't remove it. Tagaziel (talk) 08:42, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
 * You did a good job transcribing the content and I'm retaining it. If you have any corrections to make, you can make them to the existing article. Come on man, can't you see that you did well on that?
 * Second, can you clarify what you men by italics? Tagaziel (talk) 18:25, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Also, the Wasteland Tour is a no-go. We can make a case for the Wasteland Census being fair use, but that's sketchy. We can't, however, do the same for the places tour. Excerpts cited in articles? Fine. Copying EVERYTHING? That's going too far. Tagaziel (talk) 19:51, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Faction guidelines
Could you take a look at Forum:Default faction article layout and perhaps give some input? Thanks, Kastera (talk) 18:52, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I asked you a question in the above forum yesterday. --Kastera (talk) 03:28, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Quotes
Do not add quotes to character names. We've been over this. There's no rule nor guideline that says this should be done nor is there any reason at all to actually implement this. Tagaziel (talk) 11:54, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * For the love of M'Atra, don't flood a formatted dialogue page with the raw output of the export file. EVERYTHING IS THERE. Tagaziel (talk) 12:34, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Images
I'm changing them as I find them, mostly because the bright JPGs suck. I don't particularly care if it's a bust or a broader portrait shot, though I do prefer the latter. Tagaziel (talk) 17:02, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Articles
Thank you. Think you could get some scans up for the images? Also, use the Behind the Bright Lights & Big City title, as it's the precise name of the content. Tagaziel (talk) 11:11, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Some image is better than no image! Tagaziel (talk) 12:09, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * That's what I was thinking. Plus, even a bad scanner should be able to get them no problem. You can always send them to me via mail to clean them up. Tagaziel (talk) 12:41, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

SF
Deleted it because there was no reference for that. Someone was basing on tabletop game when assuming such ending, but it wasn't anything more than pure assumption. --Languorous_Maiar (talk) 13:42, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Tabletop wiki. Completely non-canon. Not even semi or non-canon like BoS, we can't just use any info from it according to Tagaziel. --Languorous_Maiar (talk) 15:12, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

http://falloutpnp.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page --Languorous_Maiar (talk) 21:27, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Cappin'
Looks fine to me. Tagaziel (talk) 18:29, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Research terminals
What about them specifically? The page looks good, nothing sticks out as wrong or implemented bad. Shadowrunner(stuff) 04:19, 17 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh, well, if you think the name needs to be changed, sure. You could just remove research? Enclave field terminals seems apt enough. Shadowrunner(stuff) 17:03, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for being an asshole
About yesterday, I'm sorry I snapped at you in the edit summary. I just get frustrated when I spend a fair amount of time going through all the refs you've scrounged up, evaluating what's of worth and can be skimmed over, and then you put back in what I deliberately took out without much in the way of explaining why.

I know you don't mean to, but when you put those things back in, in that moment I feel like you're attacking my writing ability and ability to condense and summarize information, so I get angry and annoyed. I'm sorry I caused you distress, and thank you for putting more effort into your writing. It helps; keep it up and you'll be proficient in no time. --Kastera (talk) 06:31, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Classroom crap
It looks like that's it. I alternated between Shawna's and Rachael's dialogue like conversation normally go, but the conversation didn't make any sense. That small exchange is it. --Kastera (talk) 05:06, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

You be stressin'
I think you're in way over your head and need to relax. You are clearly stressed out by what should be a hobby and I don't think either of us like that. Realize that you're just one guy and you can't fix everything all the time. Are you actually having fun editing?--Kastera1000

Definitely the first one
the second one just sounds a bit redundant. Shadowrunner(stuff) 17:16, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Broken page?
Hey, I'm trying to add some characters to the list over on The Vault:Fallout 3 and New Vegas quotations project, but I'm unable to save my edits. I press save/publish, the game loads for a couple of seconds, and then nothing. Tried editing various sections with various stuff and it never works. There are a couple of characters not on the list that I'd like to add from both games. Could you try adding Brianna to the list at the appropriate spot? I don't know why it's not working for me. KristofferAG 15:30, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not that familiar with how the software here works, but couldn't we just separate the tables into multiple pages, and transclude them to the project page? The project doesn't have to be split up, and hopefully, we don't get any problems with broken pages due to size alone.
 * An example can be shown here over on Liquipedia. All of the results on this page are on subpages that are transcluded onto the main page, which makes it easier to edit the main page as well as the results. We could make something like The Vault:Fallout 3 quotations project/Vanilla characters and The Vault:Fallout 3 quotations project/Add-on characters, and so on. I don't actually know if this would fix the problem, but it's probably worth a shot when it comes to these extremely long project pages. KristofferAG 05:19, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, fantastic, it works great now! I'll get right back to work on it then :) Thanks! KristofferAG 06:01, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Food
The food page is for foodstuffs. Divide them by raw (meats and vegetables), cooked meals, packaged food, and other. Beverages should be classified as food. Agriculture should be linked, but not included. Vegetable and fruit should redirect to the food page and the appropriate raw sections. Also, remove missingdata tags once you're done adding it, it's helluva annoying to have to go and remove them manually after each time you add the missing data. Tagaziel (talk) 13:56, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Dude, the data you add comes straight from the files. There's no need to verify. Agriculture should be a separate article. Can you gather up applicable references? Tagaziel (talk) 15:42, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Ant, I'll find the protos, you worry about adding data. Assume that proto numbers I find are good, as I'm feeding them straight from the Mapper. So once you add the stats, just remove the tags, assume they're good. You're not incompetent, I'm not incompetent, so chances are, our work, like Kastera's, Shadowrunner's, Raven's, everyone else's who has a brain, is going to be competent. :)
 * Applicable references include things like "We farm x here, sell y to here" etc. Anything that informs us as to what is being cultivated, how, where it goes, how the climate affects it and so on and so forth.
 * As for Ton, I believe they simply changed it. Wouldn't be the first time. Tagaziel (talk) 09:45, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
 * It's a leftover, and a misspelled one. Ton all the way. :)
 * As for references, images work. Tagaziel (talk) 10:14, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Sprite descriptions
Can you be more specific? Tagaziel (talk) 18:13, 8 November 2014 (UTC)