Talk:Brotherhood Outcasts/Archive 1

Hostile Outcasts
It seems that after joining up with Fawkes, all Outcasts are now showing up as hostile. It makes sense because Fawkes is a super mutant. Can anybody else confirm that this is the case? 71.64.203.118 03:36, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I got Fawkes, but then loaded to a point before going to Vault 87 so I could finish a few things, and now the outcasts are hostile to me. There are a few possibilities: The Enclave has arrived, I'm working with the non-outcast Brotherhood of Steel, or I'm wearing the power armor (T-51b Power Armor). It's annoying that I get Karma loss for something killing someone that attacks me for no reason.—ErzengelLichtes (Contribs) 17:13, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Confirmed. While traveling West of Arefu I was attacked by a squad of Outcasts. This was post-The Waters of Life, I had no followers, and I was wearing Tesla Power Armor. I had only seen one other group of Outcasts, which appeared friendly on my radar, and I avoided. Wikopath 04:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I have Fawkes on my team and I run into Outcasts somewhat often, they never start fights ( I kill them every time I see them, I like the armor )
 * I have Fawkes on my team and I run into Outcasts somewhat often, they never start fights ( I kill them every time I see them, I like the armor )

Shortly after completing the Tranquility Lane quest and leveling up to level 19, I fast-traveled back to Smith Casey's Garage and watched some Outcasts fighting some robots. I was surprised when I noticed that the Outcasts showed up as hostile (red in V.A.T.S.). Some time after that, I fast-traveled to the Scrapyard and was attacked by several hostile Outcasts. What made them hostile? Do they automatically become hostile when you reach a certain point in the main quest, or perhaps when you reach a certain level? The only followers I had recruited were Dogmeat and Charon. And they weren't even with me at the time. -- Jargonz 08:42, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Once the Outcasts have become hostile, is there a way to make them friendly again? -- Jargonz 05:32, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Anyone remember back in Oblivion that when you attacked one guard from one city, EVERY SINGLE guard in all of Cyrodill knew about it? It works the same way with the Outcasts, unless you leave no witnesses. So, if you plan on killing one Outcast, be prepared to take out his buddies, or they'll constantly tear your shit up. The survivor won't attack you, instead, they frequently run away to go report to Casdin what you've done. They're well organized.


 * The problem is that they became hostile even though I never attacked any of them. So why did they become hostile? -- Jargonz 10:17, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I just did a fresh install of Fallout 3, walked myself to the station south of Megaton where the first waypoint is for the Outcast signal quest for Ancorage, and as soon as I walked through the door they stopped shooting at the super mutants and shot at me. These were the first outcasts I've ever met on this install, and when I first entered the area they were shown as friendly. --webmaster at arsatweb.com - non user - May 4, 2009


 * There's two possible explanations for these symptoms. One is that you (or an ally) may have accidentally hit an Outcast with a stray bullet during a fire fight, causing them to turn hostile. If a patrol goes hostile you have to kill ALL OF THEM (no witnesses) or they will report it to other patrols, and in short order every Outcast in the wasteland will be hostile to you.


 * The other explanation... There have been reports that NPCs hostile to super mutants will attack Fawkes if the player has unusually low charisma. I haven't seen this first hand, but it seems to be referenced by Fawkes when he says things like "I can't believe people trust you enough not to attack me." ~ Unsigned 15 May 2009

I was at fort independence while at around level 10 in the game and just completed the "tranquility lane" quest ... i attempted to pick pocket the person who ask's you for technology and he caught me, all outcasts near me became hostile and i had low health so i ran away, now all outcasts that i come across are hostile towards me. Does this meen that if i buy operation anchorage i will not be able to complete the quests because all outcasts turn hostile ?

the best way to kill thwm all is to shhot a car nearby and theyll alll blow up

Outcasts are and always have been hostile towards me, regardless of whatever partners I may have, with the exception of the operation anchorage ones. Maybe their neutrality occurs after you turn in enough stuff to their bossman?

This has happened me for the first time this playthrough. It's weird because I know I didn't shoot any of them (accidently or otherwise) but they all want me dead now (minus the Anchorage ones) and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's a bug of some kind or I "stole" something from a kill of theirs? I'm honestly kind of afraid of trying to go near Fort Independance since I'd be in deep trouble if they all went at me at once. 151.197.29.86 16:59, March 14, 2010 (UTC)

I think I've figured it out. On my most recent playthrough, I just now met some outcasts who were not hostile to me- I haven't gotten to operation anchorage yet. I think killing those outcasts causes all the rest out in the wasteland to become hostile towards you.

Accessing Fort Independence
The requirements to access the building are very vague... I don't know if I'll be "given permission" to enter, or if it's just the "So, are we good ?" dialogue option and then I should just pick one of the two doors... I waited for the GNR Behemoth to kill all the mortal BoS members and took their armors, gave all 4 to Casdin (he even put one suit on, now he looks like a regular BoS knight) and now he won't take Power Armor from me. I got the dialogue option, but no validation or anything to enter their building. So is that it ? --Penumbra 04:10, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, if you get the 'are we good' dialog, you're good. However, if he catches you picking the lock, he'll go hostile. It's best to pickpocket the key off him. --DarkJeff 06:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

An Outcast as Follower?
When i saw the outcasts,i was hoping i could get one of them as a follower,imagine having star paldin cross and say,defender rockfowl in your team,and giving them tesla armor(or t5lb if you can cheat) and heavy weapons,oh and by the way,i just encountered an army of outcasts at evergreen mills after it was cleansed,i saw a squad leaving,all with gatlings lasers and plasma grenades,and they ahd to sentry bots on their side,i managed to kill them by setting up and ambush near the road near fort independance

Trivia Clean-up
The Trivia section on this page needs a good clean-up. It's hardly "trivia," anyway--more like tactics for killing Outcasts.--Niksilp 05:40, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

It should probably just be renamed notes or something --DescentJS 02:33, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

The brotherhood of steel,or the brotherhood outcasts?

i prersonally think the outcasts win,they have better technology and can afford to send patrols out in the wastes,also,there power armor is AWESOME


 * i agree as the Citidel have abandoned what made the BOS the BOS their quest for technology fyi i think T51b owns outcast armour. Onikage01 17:14, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Thats the reason i dont like the normal brotherhood,cause theyre not actually THE brotherhood,the real brotherhood only cared about their quest for technology,if i lead the brotherhood,id say "screw the wastelanders,we need technology" Your wrong ACTUALLY the brotherhood of steel were more intrested in the future of mankind and wanted to scavenge the tech from the ruins in the east so they do care about people but not in the way elder lyons does they think about the future and dont care for people right now those were the original goals of the brotherhood.AND the Capital wasteland brootherhood are far more advanced thann the boso because they have moved on from just scavving tech they are making their own and reprogaming pre war tech the tesla cannon and liberty prime show this and they are also making improvements on their current weapons they are developing a mark 2 BOS power armour and if you listen to elder lyons converstations you would realise that the BOS are far superior to BOSO the only tech that boso have visibly done anything to is the miss lacuncher they are only anylysing technology right now as shown in fort indpendence.The brotherhood have moved further than boso and by elder lyons attitude are ready to reconcile but the gruffness of the outcasts seems like it aint gonna happen soon. BOSO will not last any organization that is built on negative thoughts will phase out. nuff sed!!!!

oh and in terms of protection,the tflb armor does beat the outcast armor,but in terms of looks,it gets it a** kicked so hard it craps metal for a month


 * i wouldn't go That far i'd assist wastelanders but have technology and mankind as my priority so kinda like a 'Elder Scribe James' kinda thing Onikage01 19:54, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

There too ungrateful to be worth protecting,id kill the super mutants ok,but the people under attack from them can go fu- message deleted by the brotherhood of steel


 * i gave Protector 'Casdian' (don't know if thats right) some power armour so i could get access to the base (fyi: BOS Power Armour) and he wore it he looks cool now but still Outcasts own BOS as their goals in order aparently according to 'Casdian' (?) 'we wear our Outcast name with pride as a big 'fuck you' to Owyn Lyons' he's so cool Onikage01 22:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe wastelanders are a bit pissy cause there s a poop load of not so nice people and animals and in general they don t meet many nice folk out there. How would they know you are an exception ? Are you ?

Its CASDIN not CASDIAN,also i wonder why you cant give casdin t5lb power armor,it should be worht a lot of ammo or suuplys,btw,i wonder why casdin doesnt offer more supplies to you,like rad-x,mines,or even diffrent ammo Werewolfhell 16:56, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

The Outcasts have better technology? Really? --82.27.54.121 04:52, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * A punch to the gut. But that thing is the finest(most powerful) piece of technology of all the Wasteland, even including the Enclave. It's kinda unfair.BSMaker 05:02, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, the BoS has more members, better training, recruitment, a larger armory, far superior fortifications, an elite strike team, and technology that, if not totally on par with the Outcasts', is not far behind. In addition, during Broken Steel, the BoS acquires and puts to good use significantly further advanced technology than the Outcasts possess. By the end of Broken Steel, the BoS have access to a plethora of pre-war and Enclave technology from the air base and other Enclave shelters they've routed, and they've secured Adams Air Base well enough that it can be considered an alternative stronghold for them. They also have the understanding and means to reconstruct Liberty Prime potentially within a few years. Going beyond actual power, the Brotherhood has better access to understanding the culture of the pre-war USA, given their position in Arlington Library and constant patrols of the DC downtown area, which could yield significant technological understanding that the Outcasts wouldn't know about. The BoS also is made up of decent people as a whole who wish to safeguard humanity at all levels, rather than apathetic isolationists whose inability to accept and work with outsiders can only serve as a severe hindrance in scavenging more technology--the wasteland's regular residents have significant scientists and explorers who can offer great help (and have done so with the BoS) in technological fields. Finally, the Brotherhood both outright attacks the Enclave, and significantly contain the Super Mutants. Aside from the morality of doing so, these are acts of self-preservation. The Enclave is a threat to all wastelanders, the Outcasts included, and could certainly win an all-out offensive against the Outcasts if they had the opportunity to initiate it. As for the Super Mutants, left unchecked, it's safe to assume they would multiply and spread to the point of overrunning all human settlements, the Outcasts included. So in the end, the Brotherhood of Steel is stronger, more moral, and ever growing, and has accomplished its original task of collecting technology adequately while also upholding the spirit BEHIND the Brotherhood's code--the whole point of collecting technology to use and dole out wisely is to preserve peace and humanity's survival, which is what the East Coast BoS is constantly battling Super Mutants and the Enclave to achieve. By contrast, the Outcasts limit themselves, end up having inferior technology due to non-involvement with the Enclave conflict, have a short-sighted focus, are self-defeating in many of their methods, and would inevitably be overrun like everyone else by the threats that they refused to help the Brotherhood contain. The Brotherhood of Steel is better, no contest. --The RPGenius, June 9, 2009
 * Super Mutants can't breed, so they can't "multiply and spread to the point of overrunning all human settlements", but otherwise I agree with you completely.Crimmastermind 08:46, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Super Mutants can't breed, but they can and most likely do make more of each other, presumably using FEV resources in or near Vault...what was it, 87? The one near Little Lamplight. Regardless of where, though, it's an almost certainty that the Super Mutants are producing more of themselves through artificial means--as implied by the fact that the number of them remains relatively constant regardless of how many the BoS, Reilly's Rangers (who are being paid by the BoS to kill them anyway), Talon Company, AND random travelers kill off, and by the fact that they're notorious for capturing victims and holding them (as seen by the prisoners the Lone Wanderer encounters), and then escorting them to an unknown location (according to Three Dog), which can reasonably be assumed to be with the intent of making them into Super Mutants. If they weren't being kept under control by the BoS's soldiers and funding, it's a good bet that they'd have overrun at least a good portion of the Capital Wasteland. So again...hats off to the Brotherhood, for having the hindsight to recognize the MEANING of their mission, and the foresight to recognize the necessity of eliminating those which threaten everyone. The RPGenius 03:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey one thing about Liberty Prime. It Sucks if you have Broken Steel its Destroyed and in Broken Steel you have the Chance to blow up the Citadel. so it can be The outcasts vs Rubble. plus... if your lucky you can give the Outcasts this now compare this. The outcasts with Enough People to take out Squads and See The Entire Capital Wasteland Armed with Alien Blasters and have 2 Bases not one and have Secret Tenchnology the BoS dosent have Enough Convincing For you?... OR The Brotherhood of Steel with not enough people to send out squads armed with Laser Rifles... heres the answer Backwards. also to awnser a Thing about The Brotherhood of Steel is not the BoS but its the Outcasts. Im Pretty Sure thats wrong because after 2 hours of listening to Protector Casdin Babble, I found that he said " stsactuO Agent Nexue 06:16, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You're assuming that the Outcasts- if you chose to do a dumb thing and give them one of the most powerful weapons in the wastes- could successfully open the casing, AND reverse-engineer the technology, AND then, somehow, mass-produce the weapons for distribution... and then have an easy solution for the Alien Power Cell problem. They might have better luck with the pre-war stuff from the simulation, again, if you're dumb enough to leave any behind. There's still the problem of the manufacture of those weapons, though- this was cutting-edge pre-war tech, and you're not going to find materials just laying between the pressure cooker and the toaster. The only industrial base we've seen in the relative area of the Wastes is The Pitt, and that's owned territory. The Commonwealth (where the android is from) seems to have the ability to produce high technology, but do you really want to screw with people who can make convincingly human androids? You also assume they can work together effectively as a cohesive unit. It doesn't seem they can- upholding their deal with you causes a mutiny, remember? And you have to waste all but the officers. Not inspiring. Finally, yes, you can blow up the Citadel... but you're not really helping the Outcasts get better, just screwing the Brotherhood. If there's no Brotherhood left, the Outcasts win by default. But the Enclave will still kick the crap out of them, and take their broken alien gun. 99.6.39.6 01:24, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

That makes sense i agree with you but now im on the Brotherhood. Im pissed at them going hey shouldnt you be banging rocks together but in Operation Anchorage they ask for help from you.so im with BoS they Rock they have bigger armory more people but they dont send people out. but they still kick ass.

Yeah, the Brotherhood of Steel is better than the Outcasts in almost every conceivable way. Since Broken Steel, the BOS has access to a huge amount of pre-war and Enclave technology, the ability to reconstruct Liberty Prime quickly, and they can take multiple new bases such as the Capital Building, Museum of Technology(!!!!), Adams Air Force Base, and if they work hard enough they can reconstruct Raven Rock. Not only that, but with the advanced Enclave Tesla Armor, Enclave Hellfire Armor, and the numerous different plasma-energy weapons, they could make hybrid technology between them and the Enclave technology. With the Purifer at the Jefferson Memorial and the Waters of Life flowing, the Brotherhood of Steel won a major victory in the hearts of the wastelanders now that purified water and the Aqua Pura is arriving almost daily to settlements as far as Tenpenny Tower and the Republic of Dave. Not only that, but they also have the possibility of building more Liberty Primes, taking that Mobile Base Crawler, using the Satellites in orbit, and with advanced technology such as Vertibirds, steamroll right over the Outcasts and take Fort Independance. And remember, there are other areas like Fort Constantine and other military installations that could prove valuable to the Brotherhood of Steel and leave the damn Outcasts in the dust. So the Outcasts are pretty much screwed over if Lyons sends Lyons' Pride to go bring a shitstorm down over Casdin's head. And even if the Outcasts manage to hold out longer than thirty minutes, the Brotherhood will continue to peck away at them until they're dead. -Sasha 2/3/10
 * Heh. The only reason Lyons' Brotherhood actually survived is because of the Lone Wanderer. Otherwise, they are a handful of inept, immature wannabe warriors with poorly trained cannon fodder in power armour, instead of an elite, highly capable battle force. Lyons' Pride so far was only fighting against stupid, poorly equipped supermutants and minor encounters with the Enclave. If Lyons ever wanted to go after Casdin, the Pride would be torn to shreds, as the Outcasts all remember Brotherhood tactics and how to access them, have access to immense amounts of stockpiled technology and have superior training to most LB grunts.
 * Next, the Brotherhood can reconstruct Liberty Prime? Nope, they can't. Rothschild can't even restore the optics on the head of the thing and has to get tons of replacements. Not to mention that it took the pre-war USA a lot of resources and manpower to build the thing and it wasn't even working properly. It's a miracle the jury-rigged robot actually managed to storm the Purifier.
 * Furthermore, you obviously didn't pay attention while playing. Lyons' Brotherhood destroyed Raven Rock beyond repair, the Mobile Base Crawler was destroyed with orbital bombardment and the Adams Airforce Base is a ruin, not a viable base. It's even funnier that you say the Capitol and the Museum of Technology give Lyons a technological edge. Hint: they don't. Those are civilian buildings, devoid of any tech that might have military applications.
 * Last, the funniest bit is you saying that BoS won the hearts and minds of the wastes. In every playthrough, it was the Outcasts that patrolled the wastes and kept them relatively safe, not Lyons' Brotherhood, which was off chasing Ahab Lyons' white whale. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 17:08, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Saying the only reason the BoS survived is because of the Lone Wanderer is accurate, and utterly stupid. The only reason ANYONE survived besides the Enclave is because of the Lone Wanderer. That's either a strike against everyone or against no one. As for them being poorly trained, the game gives clear, visible evidence that they're trained more consistently with better equipment than anyone else in the Capital Wasteland, including the Outcasts, so...open your eyes, I guess? As for downplaying how well the BoS could fight the Outcasts, your argument is to pretend that the Super Mutants aren't significsant enemies and to forget that on the occasions the BoS does outright attack well-fortified Enclave positions, they hold their own in combat, and the Enclave has better tech, more weapons, presumably better training, and far better discipline than the Outcasts. So...again, the evidence is right there; there's not really a lot of speculation involved in asserting that the BoS would win in a fight. As for rebuilding Liberty Prime, since the game pretty clearly states that they WILL actually do this, I'm not sure where you're coming from here. As for who the wastes prefer, I'd guess it's the guys who give them water and contain both of the greatest threats the Capital Wasteland faces, Super Mutants and Enclave, rather than the guys who walk around, loot ruins of anything that could be used by the common people, and call everyone they meet morons. Just a guess.
 * No, it's very clear that the only reason the BoS survived was because of the Lone Wanderer, simply because they are the only faction you properly interact with in the course of the game. And yes, the supermutants are irrelevant. For 170 years they didn't manage to destroy the fledgling CW civilization, so there's nothing indicating they are any major threat. Apart from Lyons' mindless pursuit of them.
 * What I find funny is that you're contesting the lead designer's own words - Lyons' Brotherhood had to resort to local recruiting and the local recruits are almost unformily poorly trained and with very little discipline. Better equipment? Really? They have basic weapons, most of them in a state of disrepair. Hell, they can't even keep the Citadel clean, much less have any coherent strategy other than "throw people at the ruins in a vain attempt to kill all mutants".
 * It's funny how you try to further validate your point by claiming they can take on the Enclave. Here's a small reminder: every time they take on the Enclave, they either have the Lone Wanderer or Liberty Prime on their side. Without that, well, they're children lost in the mist with outdated power armour and poor, misguided leadership. And no means to rebuild Liberty Prime, who was a unique pre-War initiative, built by two of the biggest military industrial companies in existence. A handful of post war techies with cameras posing as advanced optics aren't really going to rebuild a machine that took the brightest pre-war minds years to build.
 * It's funny how you consider the Enclave a threat, despite the fact that Autumn was against genocide and planned to activate the Purifier and distribute the water. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 23:30, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

The BoS is, at the end of Broken Steel if you didn't blow up the Citadel, the most powerful faction in the game. End of story. They make their own tech (Tesla Cannon), they have access to Enclave tech and can now rapidly deploy to any location thanks to newly aquired Vertbird tech. Yes, Tagaziel is right and I destroyed the Mobile Crawler thing but the air base wasn't destroyed and the we only saw like one fourth of the base (in real-life Andrews Air Force Base is huge) so there could be a large amount of pre-war and Enclave tech, Vertbirds and Vertbird parts that we will never see. And if Adams Air Force Base is a ruin then why was the Enclave using is Tagaziel? Oh I know why because it wasn't a ruin. Anyways everyone forgets that during the players two week coma the BoS was taking on the Enclave by themselves and taking Enclave tech. Yes they had Liberty Prime but if those operations went anything like the "Death from Above" quest (where Liberty Prime punches a hole in the wall of an enemy base) which Paladin Tristan says they do. The BoS Knights and Paladins actually do grunt work; because Liberty Prime is a 30 foot robot he can't actually clear out a building himself so the BoS Soldiers do that part, you know CQB stuff, which is extremely dangerous if you didn't know. Also the "search" for tech is not limited to military weapons, but all pre-war tech and knowledge. What do you think the Order of the Quill is for? To look smart? No, they aquire, research, and catalog pre-war tech and knowledge that includes EVERYTHING. Scribe Yearling said that even the children books were wanted. This means the Museum of Technology would be useful to the BoS. The Orders of the Sword and Shield are responsible for military tech. Oh and their training is just the same, I spawned three BoS Knights and three Outcast Defenders next to each other, same weapons, ten times. 5 times out of ten times the BoS guys won and 5 out of ten times the Outcast guys won. No difference. Plus the Outcast "Don't trust outsiders" and don't let anyone new into their group which is, well stupid. How do they expect to grow? or survive for that matter as a faction. Also The Pride is actually better then all of the Outcast soldiers because at least five of the members were at one time marked as essential NPCs and there for invincible. But if they ever were able to fight Bethesda would script the Pride to win, sorry but its true. Tagaziel, you said that the Outcast are seen on more patrols in the wastes and so therefore are protecting the people of the wastes more so then the BoS. True you rarely run into a BoS patrol in the waste but the Super Mutant problem isn't in the wastes, its in the city. And in the city there are a bunch of small outposts of BoS Knights. The Super Mutants aren't as dumb as they look, they have a reason to be in the city, FEV. They know that they are more likely to find some in a research facility or government building then in the waste but its when the Super Mutants RETURN from the city they become a threat to the people of the waste and the BoS is located at a many of those points that exit the city. And so therefore protecting the wastes by actually seeking them out and fighting them, thats what the Pride does. They send Gallows out to find Super Mutant locations and troop counts, he reports directly to Sarah who uses this new info to plan a ambush or assault against the Super Mutants. The Outcast don't do anything close to that. When they patrol and see a person getting killed by a beast or bug or raider or hunter. They won't do anything unless they feel threatened. And what the hell is lyons White Whale, is it the Super Mutants or the Enclave or is it the people of the waste? I doesn't really matter because Lyons attacks Super Mutants and takes on the Enclave which in turn effectively protects the people of the wastes. Oh and about the BoS having trouble rebuilding Liberty Prime. Yes it required the Pre-war USA to build him originally but the pre-war USA couldn't produce anything as advanced as Enclave power armor and some other Enclave tech, which now belongs to the BoS. The fact that the Enclave has the ability to product this tech somewhere and that the Mobile Crawler was the last large Enclave installation, it is highly likely that the BoS has control of this facility which would allow them to create and produce parts for Liberty Prime being that Liberty Prime is Pre-war tech and the Enclave facility would be made up of more advanced post-war tech. Oh and one more thing THE BOS HAVE THE PURIFIER!!!!! FREE, CLEAN WATER!!!! Which in turn makes water caravans which consist of BoS guards and these caravans patrol the wastes and can be seen just as much if not more than the Outcast patrols. I think thats everything.... so yeah the BoS are better overall in every way except at being assholes, the Outcast win there.- EPZO 00:22 am February 26, 2010 Central Time ( . Y . )
 * Putting together a jury-rigged energy cannon ain't exactly advanced technology. Especially when you consider that it was propably a pre-war blueprint. Adams is an interesting point, but really, the Enclave got to the East Coast maybe 30 years ago, which makes for 170 years of the base being left to the elements to rot and fall apart. Adams wasn't a self-contained, sealed military base like the Sierra Army Depot or secret like the Mariposa Military Base. It was left to the elements and scavengers and its state in 2277 is still good for over a century and a half of neglect.
 * Why is the Enclave using it? It still had buildings and the necessary infrastructure (hangars) for maintenance of Vertibirds. If the base was in such a good shape, they wouldn't need to use the cramped, inefficent crawler as their post-Raven Rock headquarters.
 * Also, Lyons' children wouldn't get anywhere without Liberty Prime, which is enough proof that they're poorly trained. It's even more hilarious when you consider that the Lone Wanderer, a kid from a Vault with no military training, can take on legions of Enclave soldiers and win, whereas the Brotherhood shits its pants when the word is mentioned. Also, CQB? If it wasn't for the lack of DT, the BoS would stand zero chance in close quarters with the Enclave's superior weapons and power armour. They couldn't do it on the West Coast, they shouldn't be able to (at least, not without extreme casualties) on the East Coast. It's just bad Bethesda storytelling.
 * I like how you're using in-game gameplay mechanics as in-universe justification. Hint: It doesn't work that way. The Outcasts and BoS soldiers are based on a similiar template, but in-universe, Lyons' underlings are mostly poorly trained locals (case in point: Reddin), whereas Outcasts are elite members of the real Brotherhood, who would be able to wipe the floor with Lyons, if they cared enough to go after him.
 * Also, your argument "Supermutants in the City". What? Are there any human settlements in downtown DC? Any notable survivors? Any essential locations that need to be protected? No, there are not. The only thing coming close is the Underworld, whose inhabitants, as the ghouls there say, are used as target practice by the Brotherhood. There is nothing of value in the city and deploying troops to downtown DC is just sending more meat into the grinder. The Brotherhood are chasing a white whale under the doomed guidance of captain Ahab Lyons, instead of tracking down the mutants (as you say, Gallows is a tracker) and eradicating the threat at its source.
 * Funny you consider the supermutants a threat, seeing how for nearly 170 years before the BoS' arrival, they weren't a major problem for the CW, certainly not big enough to prevent Rivet City, Megaton, Paradise Falls or Tenpenny Tower from being founded and starting to prosper.
 * Heh, I can't help but laugh at your penultimate argument. See, this is where you prove to be a Fallout 3 fanboy. You don't know crap about the Fallout universe, yet pose as such. To answer your question, yes, the pre-War USA could build such advanced technology. Weapons for instance: Winchester P94, Glock 86, all plasma weapons, YK42B Pulse Rifle, YK32 Pulse Pistol, pulse weapons, all more advanced, mass-produced equipment available pre-war. Vertibirds are also a pre-war design, while the Enclave APA is a post-war product of the United States, created on a limited budget, with limited access to manufacturing plants and labs. Pre-war USA was more than capable of creating advanced powered infantry suits.
 * Also, caravans =/= patrols. As shown by the Megaton debacle, the "Free, clean water" ain't free and Lyons' bozos have no problems with shooting civilians on the spot, if they are an annoyance. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 08:11, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Your right, I have only played Fallout 3 but I am currently playing the original Fallouts thanks to Steam and haven't finished the first one yet. It shouldn't matter though because the Outcast is a Fallout 3 creation and so therefore has little to do with the previous Fallouts other than clamming loyalty to the West Coast BoS. And this particular talk page is comparing the East Coast BoS and the Outcast not anyone else. The fact remains that the Enclave can beat both BoS and Outcast soldiers without the "Lone Wanderer", and we all know that. I didn't state that the pre-war US was incapable of producing advanced equipment but the fact remains that the Enclave has produced more advanced equipment such as Advanced Power Armor and Advanced Power Armor Mark II ( It is interesting to note that in the first two Fallouts the APA and APA MKII were considered better than the T-51b power armor used by the Enclave and West Coast BoS but in Fallout 3 the T-51b is the best and equal to Hell-Fire Armor with the Broken Steel add-on; The Winterized T-51b power armor is my favorite because of its crazy high HP). I did know that Vertibirds were pre-war tech but they were in a prototype phase, if thats correct. I doesn't matter because it would still require the Enclave to produce parts for the Vertibirds to repair them, unless they are immune to wear and tear. The Mobile Crawler had its advantage of being one of the few functioning pre-war things that had a connection with pre-war weapon systems (Orbital Strike) and it most likely communication gear that helped command the Enclave forces. Adams Air Force Base was used for other things besides storing Vertibirds, there are Deathclaw research hangers as well as some hanger that had a purpose for something (Some Enclave scientists are chilling there and you can find a holotape that talks about a Flamer fuel stash), and like I said before there was a lot of the base the PC couldn't go to who knows what could be in the rest of the base. I don't know about you but i didn't see anything in Raven Rock or the Mobile Crawler that resembled machinery capable of producing anything Enclave. And you do agree with me that the Enclave is capable of producing its own tech, the new Hell-Fire Armor only backs this up. And all i am saying is that sometime between the recapture of the Purifier and the destruction of the Mobile Crawler the BoS most likely captured their production facilities. This would allow the BoS to produce APA MKII, Tesla Armor, and Hell-Fire Armor for their own troops as well as plasma weapons. Even Rothchild said they got a lot tech they got from Adams Air Base, which wouldn't be possible if all the Enclave tech (except Vertibirds) was in the Mobile Crawler (like you seem to believe) because I destroyed it. Also the Tesla Cannon does not look like it was jury-rigged, it looks like a legit creation almost as smooth as Alien weapons. As far as the Super Mutants go, in the game it is suggested by almost everyone that the BoS held back the Super Mutants some how. Most of the members of Lyons Pride are original BoS, hell they might all be, which is why they are "elite". So that would make them even with the Outcast in training, power armor, and weapons (The Pride gets the best weapons). But you can't escape the fact that the Outcast will run out of man power because they do not recruit or reproduce (unless they have a nursury, haha). So either way the BoS will survive the Outcast unless the Outcast start recruiting or reproducing.---EPZO Tuesday, March 2, 2010 8:34PM Central Time
 * It has all to do with previous games. When making a continuation that's tied to the previous games, you have to respect continuity and consistency. Otherwise, you're a crappy game designer. Advanced powered armour and mass-produced Vertibirds are post-War, yes, but they are isolated technologies. Generally, the Enclave bases on pre-War technology for its operations. Yes, they'd have to produce parts. No, speculating that "they must have production facilities" is completely baseless - Raven Rock and the Crawler were the only major Enclave bases in CW that were fully functional. Claiming that the BoS have captured those production facilities you never see or hear about is, again, completely baseless speculation, as they do not exist in the game, nor are they mentioned. The only answer is that they were located in th Crawler and Raven Rock, but off screen, just like the Oil Rig manufacturing facilities were off-screen.
 * Adams Air Force base is still a ruin. The fact that you find some NPCs in the dilapitated hangars is irrelevant - ruined buildings do not make good research centers, barracks or factories - they're only useful as makeshift storage, which, incidentally is the function they serve in-game. Rothchild states that they got a lot of tech, yes, but he doesn't mention capturing any facilities or stores. He's simply referring to the amount of armour and weapons they found after your rampage.
 * The Tesla cannon is jury-rigged. The beam chamber is exposed, it doesn't have a proper chassis and generally, it's a miracle the Tesla bolt doesn't send you to kingdom come when you fire it, given the lack of isolation.
 * If it's stated in game, then how did CW survive for 170 years with the muties, hmm?
 * Sarah was a seven year old child when she left Lost Hills. Vargas was also a child. Kodiak is a Pitt native. Only Glade and Colvin can be considered somewhat original members of the Brotherhood, and even then, they'd be, at best, 18 years old when they leave Lost Hills. Hardly original BoS, when most of them were trained by Lyons to be Sarah's personal fun club.
 * Who says the Outcasts aren't reproducing? http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 08:57, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

No one says the Outcast is reproducing or not reproducing. To say they are or aren't is completely baseless speculation, unless Bethesda or Chris Avellone say other wise. Agreed? And I believe you are forgetting that out of all the BoS and Outcast personal, Elder Lyons seems to be the only one over the age of 45, all the Outcast personal were BoS soldiers and scribes from the Lost Hills, most were likely children or new recruits when they began the journey and through experience and guideince became the soldiers they are in Fallout 3. So your argument that the Outcast is better trained and experienced then the Pride members, with the possible exception of Kodiak, is completely baseless speculation. I do agree that the remaining BoS soldiers are pretty hopeless because most are locally recruited and poorly trained. But as you must know the Outcast became the distinct group they are about a year before the "Lone Wanderer" comes out of the Vault, so some of the BoS Knights and Paladins could have come from the Lost Hills bunker as reinforcements BEFORE the whole schism but this is just speculation. It would make sense though because Squire Maxson was sent to Elder Lyons to be taught by him and there is no way they would send the last line of the Maxson family across the Wasteland USA without a significant escort of well trained and experienced BoS Knights and Paladins but once again this is just speculation but it makes a lot of sense. And like you said about the production facilities being off-screen could there not be off-screen facilities at Adams Air Force Base or the Satellite Relay Station in Rockland or am I just using to much baseless speculation? because that statement, "The only answer is...", is completely baseless speculation. As far as the Super Mutants go, being there for nearly 170 before the BoS showed up, its just one of the holes in the story and it takes a little speculation to fill it in. I don't know how you fell about speculation but if a story has a hole that is never explained I try to base my speculation on something that makes sense. So until Bethesda or Chris Avellone states the facts about the matters at hand then it is all speculation.---EPZO Wed, March 3, 2010 11:14 PM Central Time

DLC
Someone planning on taking on the responsibility of creating a new section for the DLC in Operation: Anchorage? Realek 23:04, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Note: Don't Kill
When playing the new DLC, I found out that if you kill one BOSO, they will all attack you. I went into Fort Independance and cleared them out, but doing so makes it harder to get to the outpost. --Morio-kun 00:11, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * A-doy! --DragonJTSLeave me a message 15:13, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, First: NEVER ATTACK THE OUTCAST AT THEIR TWO BASES!!!! DUH!!! You can however attack an outcast patrol and the main outcast bases don't turn hostile but you have to kill off the whole patrol. EPZO

Logic behind the "outcasts"..
Ok.. so my argument over the whole Outcasts thing is this:

The Outcasts follow the original goals and such of the BoS

So really... the BoS we think of as BoS should be outcasts (which they are...) and the outcasts should be the BoS proper --BlackRazor88 01:34, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Well done. I'm fairly certain that that's explicitly stated in the game, and the Outcasts use the moniker as a badge of honour to mock Elder Lyons. --Solbur 01:40, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Im Pretty Sure thats wrong because after 2 hours of listening to Protector Casdin Babble, I found that he said " We Left and we Were Proud of it so we Kept the Name Outcasts" or Something (Similiar)(not sure if i spelt it right) so im pretty Sure that the Outcasts are the Outcasts and the BoS is the BoS

Again, badge of honour and it does technically mock elder lyons and makes him feel bad. JerichoRCDF 19:53, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

The BoS are not "outcasts" from the West Coast BoS (WCBoS), they are just not financially or logistically supported by the WCBoS because of the decisions that Elder Lyons has made. The WCBoS still see Elder Lyons as the true leader of the BoS's East Coast operations. It seems like the WCBoS is stuck on what to actually do about it because some people think that Elder Lyons is doing the right thing while others think he is breaking the BoS''s code. Their support of Lyons depends on his discoveries and victories over the Enclave and the Super Mutants. So in the Outcasts are actually commiting treason against the BoS as a whole. Protector Casdin said something like, "When the Elders hear about what Lyons has done they will demote him" or something like that but from what I understand they do know and have acted in the way I have discribed above. EPZO''

They're just pissed off at what Lyons has done to the BoS (Changed its objectives) so they quarrelled over it and eventually were exiled, they didn't care, some thought it was funny, so they kept the name Outcasts. ThePog 21:27, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

(Correction) Casdin didn't say "demote him" he says "put him in his place...even if that place in front of a firing squad". - EPZO February 25, 2010

Personally I think the whole outcast philosophy is illogical. They think that the Brotherhood's first and only priority is to recover lost technology. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Brotherhood's long term goal rebuilding society? According to the main article about them, they gather technology so that humanity wont have to start from scratch when they try to rebuild, but their main goal is to restart civilization: "The Lost Hills bunker became the headquarters of the newly formed paramilitary organization that Maxson created and named the Brotherhood of Steel, intending to use its resources to eventually rebuild human civilization--no matter the cost." --from the "Brotherhood of Steel" article

In my opinion, the Outcasts have completely lost sight of that. I understand why they disagree with Elder Lyons' decision to focus on helping the wastelanders, because helping people in the short-term isn't their TOP priority, but I think if you compare the two factions, the Outcasts are much less true to what the Brotherhood was ORIGINALLY intended to be. That's just my opinion though, I'm no expert on this stuff lol. Ashlyyn 01:23, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Outcasts are true. They are soldiers and they are gathering technology to help humanity rebuild itself, but only when it is actually capable of doing so. If you look closely, the East Coast is not ready to do so, not by a long shot. Most of them are primitives, savages dwelling in burned-out remains of pre-war buildings and makeshift homes after 200 years since the War. The Brotherhood on the West Coast has already helped humanity rebuild itself, as the New California Republic showed promise and the Brotherhood became a major research and development house helping them. However, the East Coast does not have such potential. Even Rivet City relies on a ruined aircraft carrier rather than actual new construction and tech.
 * Lyons lost sight of the original goal and it shows. His forces are mostly locals without much in the way of combat training or potential for it. Hell, he even gives power armour to obviously unskilled and stupid locals (Reddin). He wastes resources and men on a hunt for supermutants, who aren't even threatening major population centers that much. HE also attacks the Enclave, despite them not posing a threat (the pretense is "It's just not right!"). You can't even point this out to him after you talk to Eden. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 12:13, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Outcasts interference with other quests
I wish that these Outcast patrol teams would not roam close enough to quest-related sites that they interfere with essential quest characters.. I arrived at Minefield with the intention of mezzing Arkansas for the Strictly Business quest only to find Arkansas being chased around by an Outcast patroller.. I hadnt yet started the Anchorage DLC and I didnt want to possibly jeopardize gameplay by killing an Outcast, so I had to race the Outcast member to get to Arkansas first. If I hadnt arrived at Minefield when I did, then Arkansas would have been killed and I would have wondered what was going on.. 67.172.16.255 17:59, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

NPC's can only be killed if your in the direct vicinity. L0st0s 10:21, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Broken Irony
During/after Broken Steel, the Steels are technologicly more advanced than the Outcasts. They have (left overs for repair from) Liberty Prime, or at least created schematics on how to fix him up again. They also have the marvel of the Wasteland, the Purifier. In addition, one can easily come to the conclusion that the Steels are investigating Enclave armors and weapons, likey also for their own use (spoils of war can be great indeed). Perhaps they even maintain control of Adams Air Force Base, and as such, can acquire (parts of) Vertibirds, making the East Coast Steels probably the first of their faction to become airborn. They also MADE their own tech; the Tesla Cannon is a good example of this. All in all, the Outcasts left to continue their original work: collection, investigation and maintainence of technology. Ironicly, the Steels have exceeded the Outcasts by far now, thus actually having continued their original work too, and even better (although for a different purpose). --Radnus 81.205.186.16 20:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * You're very correct. And actually we know for a fact that the BoS were reverse engineering captured Enclave tech because one of the Scribes says as much. I forget which one makes the comment, but they say the captured Enclave armor is being used to test weaknesses against Steel weapons. Likewise the Enclave weapons are being used to tweak better efficiency out of BoS armor. This is such a strong argument I think it should be put on the main page. ~Unsigned 15 May 2009


 * So thats why they call it broken steel,anyway ive noticed the outcasts in Bs to start getting heavier gear (AT least at lvel 30) heck one suqad even had two incinerators a gatling laser and a fatman Werewolfhell 15:10, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

and for the matter of...something there less advanced now than the brotherhood,but wait for it,they'll get back on top in about a year or two,unless of course you decided to nuke the citadel,then their DAM more advanced than the brotherhood,hell the hillfolk are porbably better equip then!- Joe Han Son
 * ...ok i actualy belive that, but i doubt he spawened with the fatman,or the incenorators, probably passed a ransom encounter with a fatman, and then trashed an enclave base


 * I'd like to point out that technology is not limited to weapons tech. The Outcasts could be preserving all kinds of other tech for their contribution to a rebuilt humanity. Things like appliances or AI would not show up on our radar. NeonKow 12:05, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Except the Outcasts follow a doctrine of isolation. If the Outcasts had the Purifier, they would have turned it off once they had enough water for themselves....Anon

Locations
Do we honestly need this as they can be at random places on the map as well? It seems rather pointless to list the locations of anything other than loot. Kingclyde 17:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC)kingclyde

Outcast patrols
Is there any map of Outcast patrol routes ? I know of couple, they are fun to follow or cover, since they pass many interesting places, they are usually slow which gives you time to loot and if/when they die, well, they have a nice looking armor. They r not random encounter, they stick to their routes or camp on one place, like around Fort Constantine.

Do the Outcast patrols respawn?
Is that list exact or can they appear almost anywhere? Do they respawn?
 * They do respawn. Not always at the same place, but more or less on their fixed patrol route. I did not check the exactness of that list, but it s more or less correct. Some patrols are listed more then once, depending on where they were encountered (patrol at Old Olney for example, goes Wheaton Armory - Scrapyard - Wheaton Armory - Grisly Diner - Old Olney - Grisly Diner - Wheaton Armory).
 * Another patrol route, which is in my opinion added with Broken Steel, since they have BS ID-s, goes like this :


 * Starting at crossroad S of Arefu - Kaelyn's Bed & Breakfast - road S of Fordham Flash Memorial Field - Big Town - Enclave camp NW of overpass with raiders - Enclave camp E of Jury Street Metro Station - Sentry Bot camp on the hill - Vault 101 - Springvale - Enclave camp on the road to - Super-Duper Mart - Farragut West Metro Station (they swim) - Chryslus building - Raider camp with Enclave gear - Enclave camp SW of Corvega Factory - Raider Ambush under monorail S of Corvega Factory (another Outcasts patrol here, 2 men, but only short patrol) - Truck on the road W of Vault 108 - back to Enclave camp SW of Corvega Factory - road S of The Raid Shack - Bethesda Ruins - Scrapyard - Wheaton Armory - road to Robot Repair Center until crossroad to Temple of the Union and Enclave camp (W of Robot Repair Center) - Friendship Heights (lost them here, was distracted by raiders, had to go back to Arefu). --ThorX 09:21, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Patrol member might get lost after a fight and will follow the rest of patrol way behind. Robots are also rather prone to getting stuck and since the rest of patrol usually follows it, they might stop. They ll move when u get far enough (i think they clip thru obstacles when you are a bit away) or fast travel away.
 * They might also disappear if you enter a building next to their route.
 * Combat AI - scripts stop working when you are far enough (out of the same cell), so they ll just stay where you left them, noticed when not fast traveling. In other words, you ll find them close to where you saw them the last time. Have to test how this works with fast travel.
 * They move as caravans do (no physics, no fighting) and you might find them on or close to their next patrol waypoint. --ThorX 14:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Which could take a while (couple of days waiting for some patrols). --ThorX 08:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There seams to be a spawn point/way point/turn point on crossing S of Arefu, just N (50 m?) of Water Caravan Ambush site. Wait in 1 hour increments (press T on PC) and you'll get your patrol. Wait 1 or couple more and there will be another.
 * Same thing at Vault 101 and i guess at other locations where they were spotted (not all). It looks like game rotates same teams on whichever waypoint you encounter them (will check). You can only know for sure, if you compare id-s, since they r unnamed.
 * Anyway, they are the heroes of the Wastes, definitely, clearing the caravan routes and roads of vermin, until your level and quest progression (Enclave) puts too much to chew on their plate.

Joining BoS in Broken Steel Turns Outcasts Hostile
On previous characters I've always reached the "friendly" point with the Outcasts before starting Broken Steel (ie before waking up after the chamber incident)...with the latest character I did not, and once Lyons made me a BoS member, the Outcasts were hostile. I'm guessing this is by design, as I am now officially with the "traitors" and did not previously get to be "friends" with the Outcasts. Can anyone else confirm this? 64.58.0.90 15:16, 4 June 2009 (UTC) Krag


 * I've seen a similar bug, possibly related to Operation Anchorage. I was playing a Pacifist character. Thus, no killing anything, directly or indirectly, unless the main quest requires it (the initial Radroach in VVault 101 and clearing the Super Mutants at Project Purity), or the opponent is in a simulation (Tranquility Lane and O:A). As such, after finishing the simulation in O:A, I pickpocketed the ammo off of all the Outcasts that would turn hostile, to make sure the friendlies would survive the ensuing firefight. I wasn't detected, and the fight occurred as normal (I drew fire from the enemy Outcasts, and the friendlies won the fight). I never killed a single Outcast, directly or indirectly, as up to that time the only time I fired a weapon was the BB used to kill the Radroach in Vault 101. But the next time I visited Fort Independence, they attacked me. This hasn't happened when I've finished the Outcast Collection mission first on two other playthroughs, so it's either a fluke, or the fact that the Outcasts go hostile at O:A will turn the Outcasts in general hostile if you haven't already befriended them. Has anyone seen anything like this or the previous poster's problem? ShadowRanger 21:55, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sub-note: I tried to fix the problem with the Outcasts by mucking about with my faction membership in the console. This worked, until I visited GNR. Shortly after the Behemoth fight, the Brotherhood turned hostile. Obviously I added myself to the *wrong* faction. :-) I wish I knew how to make a faction non-hostile without adding myself to it, because the problems cascade until the game is unplayable. ShadowRanger 21:55, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

You probably selected the door to GNR without speaking into the intercom. If you try to enter GNR without speaking into the intercom, the BOS will become hostile. I've tested this three times, and I get the same results.--Дикий Человек Вампира 06:02, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I wish it were that simple. That definitely wasn't the case though; I reloaded back multiple times to just before we plowed through the Super Mutants on the way to the GNR courtyard. In every case, after the Behemoth died (through no action of my own but rather thanks to plot invulnerable Lyons and Vargas(?)), there would be what appeared to be a fixed length delay (I haven't timed it, but somewhere between 10-20 seconds), then they'd all turn red and try to shoot me, even if I stood perfectly still. ShadowRanger 13:17, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

moved from article as it is not a bug

Occasionally Brotherhood Outcasts will become flagged as hostile to the player, even if the player hasn't committed any crimes against them.

Here is a series of console commands you can use to fix this, and reset the Outcast faction to friendly with your character. Some of these may be redundant, but for the sake of being thorough use them all.

The Outcasts will no longer treat you as an enemy, and you are free to interact with them normally!

--Kingclyde 04:56, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Known Locations
The Outcasts have been spotted in the following locations (Keep in mind that one Outcast in a group may occasionally be replaced by Robobrains, Protectrons or even Sentry Bots, presumably at higher levels for the latter): --Kingclyde 16:51, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A 3-man patrol can be spotted near the "Oscar Tango" radio tower
 * A 3-man patrol can be spotted near the Oasis
 * A 3-man patrol can be spotted at the Scrapyard
 * A 3-man patrol can be spotted on the road near Kaelyn's Bed & Breakfast
 * A 2-man patrol can be spotted southeast of Fort Constantine
 * A 6-man patrol can also be found near Reclining Groves Resort Homes
 * A relatively large battle between the Outcasts and Raiders can be found near Vault 112. There are at least 4 Outcast members along with an outcast Protectron, Robobrain, and Sentry Bot. There are approximately 3 Raiders along with two Mole rats and three Giant Radscorpions
 * Another patrol can be found in the area around Wheaton Armory, occasionally battling the Raiders while passing through
 * A 3-man patrol can be found near, often slightly northwest of, the Grisly Diner, and often come into conflict with the raiders living there.
 * A 3-man patrol can be found walking along the road directly in front of Vault 101 and usually head south towards the old military truck that often has a robot nearby, presumably guarding it.
 * A 2-man patrol near clifftop shacks. Once the supermutants are dead they may enter the camp
 * A 2-man patrol with a robobrain a little south of Fort Bannister. May engage nearby Talon Company Mercs.
 * A 2-man patrol with a robot at National Guard Depot.
 * A 1-man patrol starting at Fort Independence walked all the way to the Five Axles Rest Stop, at which point he was joined by two other outcasts, and the new 3-man patrol continued up to somewhere north of the WKML Broadcast Station. They then turned around and went back to Fort Independence.
 * A 3-man patrol can be near Old Olney, often fighting a Deathclaw.
 * A 3-man patrol can be spotted somewhere outside Fort Constantine's gates. Usually all equipped with Ripper (weapon)s at any level.
 * A 3-man patrol south of the Robot Repair Center, on the road between Corvega Factory and Vault 108.
 * A small Outcast outpost in a corrugated steel shack slightly west of SatCom Array NN-03d, usually staffed by 2 Outcasts wielding laser rifles.
 * At least three patrols with different teams patrol around Vault 87
 * Two or three outcasts patrolling right in front of Yao Guai Tunnels they will usually if not always engage the Enclave position there as well
 * A 4-man patrol, all carrying Laser Rifles, have been spotted near Shalebridge. They then went northeast through the Abandoned Car Fort, then southeast following the highway going along the road south to the east of Five Axles Rest Stop, from there they continued south along the road to the east of Rockbreaker's Last Gas where the Enclave can spot them.
 * A 3-man patrol have been spotted near Andale walking towards Nuka-Cola Plant

Can we possibly turn these locations to a separate page?--ChicagoWanderer 23:38, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It might not be a bad idea to make some sort of illustration, to see on the map, where the patrols "circulate"
 * The Kiw 08:31, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Tactics moved from articles

 * Ambush spot: Just west of Fort Independence, on the main road up the hill, is an explode-able car that an Outcast patrol will frequently pass. If you drop a few mines underneath the car, wait until the outcast patrol is next to it and shoot the mines (sniper rifle helps a lot here), the resulting explosion will kill both Outcasts and their robot, and the other outcasts will not be hostile to the player. At higher levels, one of the Outcast patrol members will have traded up his Minigun for a Gatling Laser.


 * If you have a good weapons skill and a good weapon you can kill Outcasts. If you kill one Outcast patrol, the other patrols won't notice because they didn't see it happen. This gives fingers if you have the Lawbringer perk and good equipment.


 * As long as the patrol is relatively far from Fort Independence and out of sight of other Outcast members when you kill them, other Outcast members won't be hostile. Of course, if you are spotted by another group of Outcasts, killing anyone that saw will keep you on good terms with the rest of the Outcasts.


 * A respawning 6-man Outcast patrol can be found at Reclining Groves Resort Homes sometimes fighting raiders, Radscorpions, and Deathclaws. They carry laser rifles, missile launchers, and a minigun/gatling laser. They can be killed without making all other Outcasts hostile.


 * If you don't care about trading technology for chems and ammunition, you can use shotguns, grenades, and rocket launchers to make short work of the Brotherhood Outcasts at Fort Independence. Use cramped spaces and take them one at a time.


 * Another way to kill the outcasts at Fort Independence is to hack the terminal near the basement entrance to the fort and remove its targeting parameters. This will make it shoot at all the outcasts in the area. Be sure to hide, wait for them to die, then take out the turret.


 * Any time the Outcast patrols get near an explode-able car you have an opportunity to get some very nice weapons and armor, but they are in poor condition. Wait for the right moment and shoot the car with a combat shotgun. Note: If the patrol has a Mister Gutsy model with it be sure to destroy it quickly if it begins running away, this will alert other Outcast members.


 * Protectron Bomb: If you spot a couple of Outcasts with a protectron in the middle, they're dead meat if you follow this procedure. First, SAVE YOUR GAME (it's not very hard, but they might get a critical and fry you). Always use VATS for attacking them. How to do it: First, throw two frag grenades at the protectron in the middle. This will kill the protectron and deal quite a bit of damage to the outcasts from the three explosions (frag, frag, and protectron itself). Then, as you've probably run out of APs by now, get out of VATS and concentrate in dodging their attacks (jump like crazy). When you have enough AP points again, start shooting at their weapons until you send them flying (take care of heavy weapons first), when you achieve this, just finish them shooting them in their heads.

--Kingclyde 16:53, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Another nice way of taking out outcasts is a given for any small weapons specialized character. Just sit back, get headshots/bodyshots from about 200 yards away and they'll never engage you in combat.

My favorite way to do it is to chill on a nearby hill with a very high powered sniper rifle, with the outcats on the edge of my draw distance settings, and take potshots. If I aim it right I can get three headshots in a row, the outcasts never even hearing the rifle. This method can be very difficult without using mods, however, as the vanilla sniper rifle doesn't have the hitting power to do this reliably. Another tactic would be to whip out your MIRV and lob a salvo downrange. Seven mininukes landing amongst the patrol tends to turn them into a pile of radioactive dust with minimal resistance, and it can be funny to see where that eigth mini-nuke flies off to.

In regard to the Protectron Bomb technique, you don't need VATS to do it. Lob your nades, whip out the PipBoy, switch to your favorite weapon and unload on 'em as soon as the 'nades go off.74.240.202.226 00:32, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

Without DLC downloaded, I noticed (and haven't seen it mentioned yet) that if you kill a Brotherhood Outcast Patrol (even the aforementioned one near Fort Independence) Casdin and the rest of the Independence group WILL be hostile. Even killing the National Guard Depot Patrol and fast travelling to Independence will make them hostile, with or without witnesses.

An easy way to kill Patrols, and keep Fort Independence non-hostile, is to wait four-in-game hours after attacking (and killing) all Outcasts in the patrol. It could be less of a wait, but this is the number that's worked for me. You can travel back and forth from Fort Independence, to other patrols, collecting Outcast Technology from them, and giving them to Casdin. (Just ensure you drop all Outcast Power before speaking with him.

--Blaylocke 20:00, 17 July 2009 (UTC)Blaylock

Thank you Mr. Outcast
After discovering Fort Independence, and speaking to the leader of the Outcast. I now will thank the Outcast because i have yet to relize that wherever the Outcast are there always a huge stash of weapons to a unique weapon. I saw them at National Guard depot which is where a unique weapon is. I have also saw them at Fort Constantine and in many other places.

Hostile to the Brotherhood?
Does anyone know what would happen if an Outcast patrol would meet a Brotherhood patrol in the wasteland? I've tried many times to get these two factions to meet each other, but I cant.--Дикий Человек Вампира 17:13, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * They fight to the death. Just happened to me yesterday. Stupid bastards, should be rather working out their differences and getting back together. But noooo, they are too damn stubborn :)
 * (This also "explains" why Outcasts turn hostile to you once you join the BoS)
 * The Kiw 21:43, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Where did this happen, Anon

I had Star Paladin Cross as a follower and we encountered an Outcast patrol and they didn't attack each other. Do you know why? LazerPlayer L*P 22:20, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

When Star Paladin Cross or Fawkes or any other follower is at that moment a follower of the PC any factions the PC is friendly with will not attack the PC's followers. Although Fawkes does say something like "I can't believe people trust you enough not to attack me". This could change if your karma is different, I don't know i haven't ever been anything but good or very good. -Epzo,

Anyone else?
Has anyone else other than me, gone inside Fort Independence without Outcast permission? And what was your reaction inside or outside when you did so? --Kirby888 15:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep, I went inside, all curious, what the heck they're doing in there. Unfortunately I had to kill everyone before going on the sightseeing tour as all Outcasts turned hostile to me.
 * The Kiw 21:44, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I went inside and had to kill everyone as they were hostile, however when i went back out they weren't. Sasquatch99 23:41, 7 August 2009 (UTC) I Went in wiped the people out scavved all the intresting tech and went back now every boso is hostile towards me so --I-HATE-IAN 15:24, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Killing the outcasts at Fort Independence...
I have a slight problem, I killed the outcasts at fort independence for fun, but now i wonder... I will be getting the GOTY edition soon, and will i have to start a new game to make the BoSO at Outcast Outpost Friendly?

Outcasts Using their weapons as melee weapons????????
Hi i had recently encountered outcast patrols at wheaton armory.. and after making them hostile they just used their missile launchers and lazer rifles to WHACK me... can anyone confirm if this is has happened to them？

Outcast patrol ( random encounter-related )
I have a question. When you get an Outcast patrol for a random encounter, do they follow the patrol route or do they stay in the area they spawned? -- -Jet-

Date
When exactly did the Outcasts disband from the BoS? Tzaro the Outcast 03:35, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Outcasts left the Brotherhood of Steel sometime after Lyons started to change the entire mission of the East Coast Brotherhood of Steel, so I'm guessing since Lyons looks extremely old and Casdin middle-aged sometime between 20-30 years before the game started (about 2047-2057).

Lyons says that it's been roughly a year since they left.

2075-2076 sometime around then.

Wastelander following Outcast Protectron and Two Outcast's
Wastelander following Outcast Protectron and Two Outcast's. Not sure why this is....CheezeWEEPツ 05:35, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Outcast Rebellion
After completing Operation: Anchorage you gain access to the VSS armoury, some of the lower ranks begin complaining and eventually open fire. After this occasion killing an Outcast in the Wasteland renders no Karma loss. Whether this is a glitch or not I am unsure, maybe Bethesda sort of turned the Karma loss 'off' for the revolution but forgot to turn it on again afterwards? ThePog 21:31, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Update, I actually lost Karma for killing the Protectron, if my theory is correct then it is because their is only Outcasts in the VSS Armoury, no robots. ThePog 21:17, February 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry to break it to you, you don't lose karma for killing human BOSO members anyway. This is also stated in the article. --Cartman! 23:13, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Not as smart as I once thought
Near Wheaton Aromry the outcasts where fighting some Encave troops they killed them and just kept shooting the corpse and didn't stop. I shot their guns of their hands and they grabbed another one. out I thought it was funny.

--They werent stupid, they where probably having a bad day. And NPCs don't run out of ammo that I know of...

After a lone outcast found an Enclave Eyebot, he proceeded to shoot at it. But not before running straight into it so that it could neatly blow up all over his face and then kill him. I guess he was not happy with his life.