Forum:Did the Enclave nuke the USA?

What I'm about to say may seem a little radical but MABYE the Enclave (US Government launched the nukes at itself). After all, they were safe in their private bunkers and they wanted to test the vaults so what did they have to lose. Then the rest of the world would have a reason to attack china and the Enclave could just watch in the comfort and luxury of their bunkers as the world destroyed itself. What do you think of this idea?

Pretty stupid...why would you bomb the factories making bomb and such? If you're screwed up enough to bomb all of your natural resources and condoning yourself to live underground for the rest of your life. Why not bomb the enemy? I think you are not aware what 1 ( ONE ) nuclear bomb can do...there absolutely no reason why any human being would want to drop 100's and survive.

Not that stupid of an idea really but i think it would be a smarter guess would be that they started the war by launching the first strike that would make more sense if their actual goal was to test what would happen in a "what if" situation that way they would still have plausible deniability as no one would be able to confirm it. As the Chinese had troops on the ground in and around the USA ( Anchorage and various spy stations) why would they nuke there own forces? Also a good question i ask myself is how do you know if the rest of the world is as destroyed as the USA? There is a hint the UK was hit as tenpenny was stated as a refugee from there in fallout 3 but what evidence is there the rest of the world is gone? --SP4RT4N360 13:07, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The Enclave were in control of one of the most powerful countries in the world. Why would they want to throw away all that power? I mean, look where they are in the game, it hardly seems like a fair trade off. --Macros 15:39, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Nice speculations. None of it appeared in Fallout Bible.--dotz 15:55, 13 December 20

It's a good thought, but why would they test the vaults by destroying the entire country? It's like checking if your gun works by aiming it at your head..-Nomadic Penguin - December 29, 2008

Exactly. The entire payload of nuclear bombs owned by the USA is worth an unimaginable amount of money, with one being worth millions, if not billions of dollars. Now if one of them can eradicate a twenty-mile radius [maybe more, I'm no expert] and kill hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens. Citizens the Enclave needs. And what it all comes down to is what is the reason? Nothing to lose is not good enough. They could possibly do it to antagonize the rest of the world against China [blame it on them] but I think the Enclave would have lost far more than they would have lost in the war altogether.

That idea is not so far-fetched, In Jericho Hawkins and his accomplices planted bombs in the major cities of America such as Denver and Chicago to make it look as if they where being attacked by another country. However with the release of Operation:Anchorage we now know that there was indeed a war and who knows maybe the Enclave sparked it off, I personally don't know as I own a ps3. user:weber134

Interesting idea but,no no,there was a war,fallout lore dictates friction between china and the us for years and years,as well as unrest in the world generally,with the UN disbanding and the countries squabbling over resources.The thing is,really,If America or China for instance,launched nukes,then Americas allies would launch nukes against its enemies,chinas allies would launch nukes against its enemies,then while these are all in the air,all the other affiliated and allied countries will launch their nukes.Thus,the world goes kaput.It is never actually said who launches the first nukes,but it is widely believed to have been China,the invasion of Anchorag possibly being a precursor to a nuclear strike,although i beleive the US has nearly defeated China when the nukes were launched,so it was probably a Chinese last ditch attack--Bluemax 16:29, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

why would the enclave nuke its self that wouldnt be the smartest thing to do there was more than just a little friction between the us and china it was all out war with china using bio warfare and anything else to win and save face which would of course led to them nuking the usa,

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♠ Also, just to throw this into the hat: No evidence even suggests that China WAS the country that nuked the USA. Remember that US intelligence indicated that China was heavily invested into a biological weapons program. Even in our history, a nation is more likely to enter a biological weapons program IF they are unable to muster the funds and technology to develop a nuclear weapons program, since biological weapons are generally cheaper to produce. So one could infer that maybe their nuclear weapons program was not as advanced as they had hoped.

Think about it: the world is already in a state of war or pre-war. Diplomacy has failed on multiple fronts. The US and China have been at war for 10 years. Is it so far-fetched to think that possibly another nation that was an enemy of the United States saw the protracted conflict as a chance to take what little resources were available to the world (Alaska) by nuking the US while it was busy with China? In absolutely NO source does it say matter-of-factly that China released its nuclear payload. In fact, there is no evidence to even suggest that they even HAD a nuclear payload. The point is that in the Fallout world, no one can definitively say who fired first, in fact no one can say who fired period.

As for whether the Enclave nuked the US: If you consider the Enclave mentality following the Great WAr, it doesnt seem too unlikely. The Enclave considers 'unpure' or 'tainted' humans as subhuman at best, worthy only of eradication. So yes, as callous as they are, the Enclave are probably capable of nuking all people they deem to be unworthy of salvation. In that sense, the Enclave is probably devoid of conscience enough that they would be capable of such an act.

Nevertheless, despite the fact that they are capable of it, practically speaking, it's unlikely that they did it. If you use up your nuclear payload to 'cleanse' the United States, what's to stop China from picking up right where they left off? China was on the verge of defeat, and then you nuke the homeland before the victory is sealed? Not bloody likely.

Bottomline, we could speculate all we want, but it only remains that: speculation. The wonderful thing about the Fallout world: We can debate about who nuked whom first, but the reality is, no one in the Fallout world cares, since everyone only cares about survival. The only way we know for sure what happened will be...if the developers decide to finally provide the info. And they most likely won't. Because providing the info won't let a character in-game do anything about it anyway. Say it was China. So what? Both countries are broken shells of their former selves. The bastards that decided to start the war are long dead and gone. What would be the point? If I were writing the story, it would be exactly the way it is...I'll leave it to the reader (or in this case, the gamer) to guess what could have happened. Well, that's just me. Magnum101 14:39, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

a outside source could be the cause of the great war such as terrorists or possibly even aliens they were monitoring the planet. 01:11, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

......It seem to me very unlikely that a "superpower", in a Fallout style's 1950s definition, had no nuclear payload. Whatever it is, it is quite unlikely that China launched the first bomb as a "last ditch effort", as both sides were actually in a "balance state".......For the Chinese, the defeat in Alaska was undoubt a heavy setback (No information on whatever were there any surviving troops return to China), not to mention the Yangtze stalement in their own home (Presumed most of the southern coastal economical areas have fallen to American, thus explained "supply line from Chinese annexed nation bagan to breakdown"). But please remember America was desperate as well. First, the annexation of Canada should have used much American supply/ manpower. Second, the massive supply need to cover a much larger mainland front though the Pacific. Third, domeistic unrests (uncertain on were there any strikes which affected their war effort)further reduced American chance to win. Even the Power Armors had called back, so that we could guess on how the American balance Yangtze front had affected and the scale of unrests...... So it was hard to say that American victory was ensured so Chinese launched their nukes. I prefer to say it was a third power who did that......Moknin 13:24, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

...... I find it completely probable that the Enclave staged an attack on the US to start the Great War. To the original poster I offer this link. http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Delta_IX_Rocket_Crater

I wouldn't put it past the Enclave to start a nuclear war, but given what little they'd get out of it for what they put into it, it seems downright stupid. From what we've seen, the Enclave is far from stupid.

As for China not nuking their own troops, that's just ridiculous, if you listen to the holotapes in Op. Anchorage a US soldier states how shocked he is that the Chinese landing force is so callous toward their own troops that their own ships will fire on Chinese positions if it means taking out US troops in the process. So essentially, they won't hesitate to kill their own. 67.211.81.140 03:12, 25 April 2009 (UTC)Cavesloth

I don't think so. It can be miscalculated fire. Normally Naval bombardment from a far distance could be very inaccrate, especially of those 1950s (basically) technology, but nuke bombardment is just different, for a nuclear bomb is just more valuable than some naval shells (thus launch with better calculation) and usually their target is fixedMoknin 04:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Well my point is in the game the Chinese are made out as though they don't value human life, and wouldn't hesistate to nuke the US if they thought it was necessary even if it meant killing a few of their own. I was basically countering someone else's point that the Chinese wouldn't kill their own. I wasn't saying the Chinese launched first or anything like that.

As for Naval bombardment, a smart force uses it to soften up the enemy for the ground troops, and then firing ceases once the ground troops are in, due to it's inaccurate nature and the fact that they could hit their own and due more damage than good. In the invasion Anchorage the Chinese didn't cease fire once their troops were on the ground, again showing a disregard for the lives of their own (perhaps because they have such a large population that individual lives aren't valued as highly by them as by US troops and their leaders).67.211.81.140 07:21, 25 April 2009 (UTC)Cavesloth.

The Megaton bomb is identical to the bombs in the bomb storage facility... 90.201.91.94 03:28, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

The united states and its shadow goverment, the enclave were at war with china and had been for some time mostly through the demonization of communism. the idea of the enclave nuking its own country is a bit radical but maybye if we tone it down a bit we might get something reasonable. What if the enclave purposly created the global tention between countries ( I don't think that any reasonable reason for the war against china has been given) in order to start a neuclear war. the purpose being to create large scale anarchy and destroy most civilized society so that when they emerged from their fallout shelters they could declare themselves the aryan rulers of the earth simply because they survived. This would satisfy the Enclave's thirst for power without open war that would take far longer.


 * This thread is alive? Jesus, the original question is so stupid it's not even funny. The Enclave was already in control of the United States and every aspect of its government. Why would they stage a nuclear war, where they lose everything? http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 17:13, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Umm, I'm probably wrong but didn't President Richardson say "then those damn Reds launched.."LW556DCJ 17:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)