Talk:Divide

Does anyone else think this could be the place where california split off from the rest of the coast? Cause thats a pretty massive devide right there. Power Bonkers 23:08, December 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's going to be the Rocky Mountains, since they run from Alaska to Texas they pretty much "divide" the country. Also because The Divide has been described by several people as a place where there seems to be constant storms and tornado's. And in Fallout Tactics the Brotherhood of steel ran into violent storms and tornado's while trying to cross over the Rocky Mountains in pre-war aircraft. And the mountains are pretty much one state over from Nevada; you can run into them in Utah. So I'll bet New Canaan will play a part in the same DLC--A Pickering 16:03, January 6, 2011 (UTC) Maybe its going to take place in San Fransisco they have tons of eathquakes June 18,2011.

"Magnum Chasma"
The Legion stamps its Denarii with the words "Magnum Chasma". Unless someone can point out a Great Divide elsewhere in Arizona, I suggest this be merged back with Grand Canyon. Simple, really. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 08:53, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just because "Magnum Chasma" is likely the "Grand Canyon", it doesn't mean that the "Great Divide" is. Legion characters refer to the Grand Canyon simply as "Grand Canyon" in all instances that I've seen in the game. And "Great Divide" likely refers to the real-world Great Divide or its part called the Great Divide Basin. Ausir(talk) 11:30, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Likely"? In-game evidence points to "Divide = Grand Canyon". First of all, the Great Continental Divide can't be the Great Divide. It lies on the eastern fringes of pre-War Arizona, nowhere near the Mojave or the Core Region, yet characters refer to storms coming from the Divide several times throughout the game, among them Cass and Johnson Nash. Unless these storms are large and violent enough to travel through an entire state and retain enough force to skin a person alive when they arrive in the Mojave (which begs the question how the Legion controls Arizona), then they are most likely not originating in the Great Continental Divide.
 * Furthermore, there's no reason to assume that it's the Great Basin Divide either. Apart from them both being pre-War geographical terms (and thus the assumption that people over two hundred years ago would still use them is pretty shaky, especially considering the Legion's loathing of pre-War stuff), that'd conflict with the Legion denarius being stamped with the words Magnum Chasma. Since it bears the profile of a young Caesar (Caesar Dictator) and three men in travel gear and the aforementioned Magnum Chasma, assuming that the coin does not have any relation to young Caesar's expedition to the Grand Canyon and his first victories as a tribe dictator and instead refers to a geographical name most wastelanders don't even know was used before the war is a stretch. A real stretch.
 * In addition, General Oliver explcitly refers to Vegas as lying west of the Divide. Since the Great Basin Divide lies west of Vegas, not the other way around, it automatically cannot be the Great Divide as referred to by characters throughout the game. And since it cannot refer to the Great Continental Divide (as I elaborated above, plus the fact that General Oliver would not refer to the Divide if it was lying in Arizona), then the Great Divide must be the Grand Canyon.
 * Yes, a handful of Caesar's men refer to it by its proper name, the Grand Canyon. However, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I will merge the pages and include the above rationale later today, if time permits. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 15:02, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

You did not post any evidence. You're just jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions. It's you that is ignoring the fact that some people refer to the Grand Canyon, some people refer to the Divide, and no one in the game ever mentions the two being the same place. I'm not saying it's necessarily the GCD, just saying that there is no evidence yet to conclude without any doubt what it is. I'm sure it will be proven one way or the other in the coming add-ons, so let's just wait until then.

Your points might be considered clues against assuming that it's the GCD, but they're still not evidence that it's the Grand Canyon. Aside from the Legion characters, Chief Hanlon also calls the Grand Canyon the "Grand Canyon" and at no point in the game is it outright stated that the Great Divide is the Grand Canyon. You can state in the Great Divide article that it might be the Grand Canyon, among other possibilities, but none of the "evidence" you've shown is conclusive enough to merge the two. So no, you will not merge the articles. Ausir(talk) 17:32, December 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence - just because they don't explicitly state that the two are the same doesn't mean they aren't. Tell me, where in the game is it suggested that it might be the Great Continental Divide? http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 18:06, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thing is, there is just as much evidence for it being the Grand Canyon as for it being, say, the Great Basin Divide (and for me, the latter is actually more likely, given what Oliver actually says and given that Cass is from the West and has been to the Divide. How likely is Cass to have frequently ventured deep into Legion territory? You must have confused me with someone. I'm the one insisting that it's not explicitly stated to be any real-world location yet. You're the one insisting that it is. Ausir(talk) 18:10, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * But you're also ignoring evidence to the contrary. Oliver explicitly states that Vegas shines brighter than most of the cities west of the Divide, including Vegas in the group of cities west of the Divide. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 20:02, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, if anything, for me it sounds like when he says that "Vegas burns brighter than most cities West of the Divide" he compares Vegas to cities back in California, which would mean that the Divide is between the Mojave and California, and would be consistent with the "Divide" writings in the Canyon Wreckage. If I said "this appleis better than most oranges", it wouldn't mean that this apple is an orange. Also, you're ignoring evidence like Cass not being likely to have traveled deep into Legion territory, and all characters that do mention the Divide being either from NCR or being found on the western part of the map, like Nash. As is the Canyon Wreckage, with the "Divide" writing. None of the characters from any place east of Primm, including no one from the Legion, mentions the Divide. Ausir(talk) 20:49, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * You've got a very good point there. Checking out the map of the GBD shows that the western border might actually be the Divide. I am still not entirely sure that it isn't the Grand Canyon - it's perfectly accessible through Lake Mead (it's about 70 clicks) and unlike the GBD, it actually has weather phenomena that can be the origin of the violent storms, whereas the GBD does not. You do have very valid points, though. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 13:14, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * As I said, there are convincing arguments for more than one option and for now the evidence is not conclusive enough to determine it with certainty. 15:46, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

I would like to take this opportunity to state that I was wrong in arguing that "The Divide" is "Grand Canyon". There, I said it. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 06:42, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

Could it be Death Valley? No one seems to consider that. A valley is a division, and death is very Fallout-y SlayerEGO1342 20:33, February 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * I still think it's going to be the Rocky Mountains, since they run from Alaska to Texas they pretty much "divide" the country. Also because The Divide has been described by several in-game people as a place where there seems to be constant storms and tornado's, and in Fallout Tactics the Brotherhood of steel ran into violent storms and tornado's while trying to cross over the Rocky Mountains in pre-war aircraft. Some aspects of Tactics have been treated as Cannon in the Fallout universe. And the mountains are pretty much one state over from Nevada; you can run into them in Utah. So I'll bet New Canaan will play a part in the same DLC--91.105.162.220 20:48, February 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Tornadoes aren't mountainous phenomena, though. A storm that could tear flesh from bones, in my opinion, would be a massive dust/sandstorm so powerful as to have a sandblaster effect. Such storms would be common in post-nuclear Death Valley SlayerEGO1342 20:55, February 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Could it be the San Andreas Fault? Since it does divide most of California and its west of Vegas. 76.172.249.120 06:31, February 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ooooo yeah, that's a good one, too. I seriously doubt it'll be any mountain range, whatsoever. Nobody refers to a mountain range as a "divide". Just the word "divide" has a chasm-like connotation to it, implying you can SEE the opposite side and need to cross it. Mountain ranges almost act like the end of a place with the beginning of another on the opposite side. (SlayerEGO1342 again, forgot to sign in before typing) 76.170.175.230 00:08, February 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, geographically, a "divide" refers to a ridge which separates drainage basins: that is, something that causes water to drain to one side or the other. This includes mountain ranges. In the area relatively near Nevada there are three major divides: The Great Divide (ridge of the Rockies), the Great Basin Divide (roughly surrounds the current state of Nevada) and the the Great Western Divide (in California, between King's Canyon and Sequoia National Parks). --Tallin Harperson 14:48, July 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Lots of people refer to the Continental Divide, there are even signs marking it along highways that cross it. The Continental Divide is the highest ridge of the Rockies.  On the Eastern side, all precipitation drains to the Mississippi and the Gulf of Mexico, while rain/snow melt on the Western side drains into the Pacific.  So yes, they could be referring to mountains. DarthOrc 05:18, June 26, 2011 (UTC)DarthOrc

Sorry to take the time and comment on a month old topic, but I doubt the Grand Canyon and the Divide are the same thing. Don't you think the Legion would have a tough time throwing Graham into the Grand Canyon when there's a bunch of storms? And I think someone would've mentioned that the Grand Canyon and the Divide were one and the same.--With care and happiness,  Supermutantslayer450'  You will know the truth... And the truth will set you free..  23:07, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

The divide is a location torn apart by frequent storms and earth quakes. In any event it is still death valley and nothing else. It's the most reasonable explanation. There is no point argue on a point which is pretty much confirmed by location and Joshua graham commenting that NCR platoons were hit along roads close to Death valley. --92.5.18.215 20:50, September 17, 2011 (UTC) Carter190s

Will dynamite clear the wreckage?
Has anyone tried to throw dynamite at the blockade? Seems odd that Cass mentions that she learned to use dynamite to clear blocked passes, and here's a pass that's blocked... Just curious. Servius 15:08, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, it didn't do anything. Servius 15:08, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

I'm fairly sure the blockade is there as a starting point for the future DLC, Lonesome Road. I'm guessing it will be cleared when the DLC is downloaded. 08:36, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

Real life phrase
"Hope a storm comes from the great divide and strikes him" or something along those lines, still involving the "Great Divide" is used in real life and is a phrase with the same kind of meaning as "Hope God strikes you down where you stand". So to me the Divide isn't a location, its just a phrase used. Also in game its not called the "Great Divide" Nash just says "From the Divide"--Alpha Lycos 05:43, January 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * References to it tearing the flesh from the bones are not necessarily literal either, but instead may well be more than a bit hyperbolic. Wunengzi 15:34, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

This had better be GOOD.
The developers are gambling a lot by dropping all these hints about how earth-shakingly significant the confrontation at the Great Divide is going to be. I hope they've got the story line to back it up. The messages of the two Couriers had better be something very important, not just some variant on "F*ck you!", "Oh yeah? F*ck you too!" Of course, the writing has been fairly good up to now, which is reassuring but.... still can't help being a bit nervous that this might be shaping up into the Fallout series' Episode III. Wunengzi 00:55, March 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * I want that to be their massage though! ;) GamerAddict7796 14:32, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * There's no doubt in my mind that they will have written a spectacular ending for the DLC, one that they've stated no one would see coming. --Geerardr 14:44, May 14, 2011 (UTC)

I think i know whats the Divide
Go to Las Vegas on google maps. Zoom to the roughly of NV map.West of Mt. Charleston is a great divide where Pahrimp os located so i think thats the Great Divide. Cause when Bethesda says it will be grand, i doesn't xD

Great Divide
Is this place ever actually called the Great Divide in-game, or just the Divide? --Flower of Pock-Lips 18:51, April 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Both. Ausir(talk) 18:52, April 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Is it, I did a search under the words great divide and got no returns, then did a search under divide and got the following returns which refer to the location.

User Avatar talk.png 19:07, April 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks like the page should be moved, then. I do seem to recal "Great Divide" used somewhere, though. Hmm... Ausir(talk) 19:11, April 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * It might be your mind filling in the blanks with something you are familiar with. But either way, the search of the GECK throws up all references to the word search, dialogue files, loading screen hints, notes, scripts, objects, quest stages etc. However, it cant search graphical text in the images and textures, so if it was included in something like a loading screen image, then it maybe referred to as both. My first thought went to the Legion Denarius, but that was latin for Great Abyss and referring to the Grand Canyon. So I leave that up to you. User avatar tag.gif Avatar talk.png 19:32, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

Death Valley?
(Very minor spoilers?)In a conversation with Graham, he mentions Death Valley, after which he says it's near the divide, should mention of this be put in the article?Admiralmorris 20:43, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

Saw the same thing, he mentions something along the lines of the both the Divide and the Big Empty being west and then north of the Mojave, along a highway (which one I forget) and those two plus mountains prevents traders from going north that way.

Another clue pointing twards death valley is i think there is like only one road running through death valley(lonesome road)and it is a large 140 degree valley that would definetly divide New Vegas from California.June 26, 2011

Crashed Ship
It seems as though the divide was formed recently. A major recent event was the crash of Mothership Zeta's counterpart. The crash site is never specified and any ship that large would tear a gash threw the earth. The crash itself would have killed anyone nearby and anything that survived would effortlessly kill anything that come to investigate. Gruntfire 15:09, May 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Very true, and the event happened in 2277, the same year as the First Battle of Hoover Dam (and whatever happened at the Divide is why they lost). However, I think Obsidian know better than to release another aliens DLC. --Lugiatm (talk · contribs) 15:12, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Do you think
There will be a reference to John Cassidy at the divide, Cass mentions him going to the divide, maybe a holotape, maybe his remains... I would love to see him shown somewhere in the add-on :) Gheart 18:49, May 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't know why people keep saying this. Is there any exact line in the game someone can point to to prove this? --Lugiatm (talk · contribs) 18:52, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

From John's page:

After the events of Fallout 2 he married a tribal and had a child with her named Rose of Sharon, who says that "lucky for [her], he was a horny bastard," and how he just upped and left one day, journeying east to the Divide *insert needs verification*, never to come back. She thinks that he probably died, explaining why he never returned.

I know it needs confirmation, but it would be nice to see the old man again Gheart 19:00, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

specification
okay so you say that they are fighting under the old world flag well are they fighting each other or just a really powerfull enemy because what could make two friends fight to the death ecspecially when the one friend invited him thier if you ask me they probobly are going to fight some giant enemy boss like gojira or some master deathclaw or something because lets face it a fight between you and him might last maybe 1 minute wheter he has some cheap trick like he steals your weapon or he has turrets protecting him or something other than that i think they are fighting a neutral enemy ecspecially since you can kill him in any part of the dlc--Corporal grif 02:22, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

Between Vegas and California
If an earthquake in the Divide cut off NCR supply lines after the first battle at the dam, that would mean it would have to be located between New Vegas and California.

The divide is probably around death valley, or at least between the mountain ranges that divide California and Nevada between I-15 and California state route 127...

Image
Hello i was wondering if a image like this one would be good to have... at least on till we have better once.

Terrorblades - This is recorded live at  10:38, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Map of the divide?
In OWB,in the meteorolgy station,there is a map that I think is of the divide. Can anyone confirm this? Also,One of Elijahs logs mentions that the couier was drawn to the big MT by the meteorolgy station. Ledgend1221 19:54, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

A map like THAT...
Brings out my inner survivalist. I hope there's no security fence, or minefield or anything like that to keep me from hitting the absolute boundary. Also i hope there's more buildings to loot than boarded up props!

Don&#39;t be a Nonlife, play fairly. 04:14, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

Ciphers in the Divide?
Elijah's mentioning of the Ciphers has been bugging me for quite some time. I don't want believe it was just an off-hand reference the developers put in, considering everything else that was mentioned in Dead Money has appeared or is confirmed to appear in the DlC. Also considering the fact that Elijah mentioned it in the same sentence as his mentioning of the Divide, I believe that the Ciphers are perhaps denizens of the Divide and Ulysses may perhaps have some sort of affiliation with them. I was wondering if anyone else has the same idea I have. SnoopingasusualIsee 22:25, August 7, 2011 (UTC) Thank God someone else recognised this i think that theyre the tribe hes going to reawaken america with


 * Since the Ciphers was a group of scientists and soldiers and the "keeper of technology", it's possible =). It could be now that they are descendants of Big MT scientists, stuck here because of the Divide.


 * Also in VB design docs, when computers began to fail, scientists began painting and carving electronic schematics into the walls of the pit (now the Divide) and mathematics be emphasized when educating the village children so that their descendants would understand how to use the schematics, it could be that the Ciphers posses the "old secret" of pre-War technology, able to "wake up" america, which means everything for Ulysses.


 * But the most important question, why the Courier? Is there a descendant of an important Big MT scientist (may be the leader of the group in Hopeville - The Divide) who now the only with the DNA that open a specific door there? Did he save the life of Ulysses or tried to kill him once and Ulysses wants to repay or avenge this one way or another? How Ulysses had this idea and leave his so peaceful ranch? Many questions that will be answered in Lonesome Road I hope ;). Itachou [~talk~] 11:08, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Very much doubt that. If you remember, the credits for Lonesome Road are very short and don't contain any reference to Ciphers. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 11:32, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Nice catch Mikael =). Well, the Ciphers may be dead after the departure of Elijah and before the arrival of the Courier, and just one or two survivors remain. I find it rather strange that the Ciphers are the only one cited by Elijah that doesn't appear in a FNV add-on. Anyway, given the credit of Lonesome Road, there will be just a few characters in this add-on. Itachou [~talk~] 12:30, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, the names in the credits don't sound very much like Ciphers. However, I do believe that there may be SOME sort of remnant of them being there; I do not believe the developers would reference them and not include them in anything. SnoopingasusualIsee 17:47, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hum... the new achievements seems to confirm at least one faction lives in the Divide (called in the achievements the Divide dwellers), the Ciphers would be really nice. Itachou [~talk~] 15:23, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah that would be nice...especially since Elijah mentions them...but we can't have it all......if anything they are most likely the survivors from hopeville after the freak accident and whoever was left from the NCR companies that got completely annihilated...but hey we can only dream right?--John117Price 17:47, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Just thinking here, but....
Does anyone think The Divide will be as big as Point Lookout (location) O_O ^_^ @_@  10:02, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Only time will tell, but it seems unlikely. The Milkman 10:04, August 28, 2011 (UTC)

I think the developers are concentrating more on the story than exploration with this dlc. HRRlion 13:06, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

Is it really against each other?
So i just played trough the Dead Money DLC and Christine said that she hopes the Courier and Ulysses have found each other and that she heard of the Battle of the two fighting under the Old World Flag. My question is: Is it really mentioned that those two fight against one another or could it mean that they fight together under the Flag to Unite the Nation or somethin?

--93.231.186.215 12:44, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Very true, maybe the Courier and Ulysses will band against a common enemy, fighting their foe beneath a tattered flag of the Old World. --Fezgod 13:33, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

THE Divide
This page needs to be moved/renamed to "The Divide" as that is how it is always said in-game, in the same manner as the Fort and the Strip it is never called just "Divide"
 * Not really. The Fort is named as such after the PIP-Boy marker. When the Divide is concerned, the is just a definite article, basically meaning that you are talking about a location named Divide, not a general divide or something. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 19:15, September 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * So if the Pip-Boy marker says "The Divide" then it should be changed?

I think it should be clarified that most of what we know about The Divide - e.g. The Courier being founder and destroyer of the settlement at the same time - is just Ulysses' interpretation (or narration) of the incidents that turned The Divide into what we saw in LR.Just a Fallout fan ... 17:04, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

A bit thin....
I think its time someone (not me) should do a cleanup on this article. There's still speculation around, and the layout should be updated aswell. Some backstory should also be added.STRIKE3 14:34, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Package that talked < > ED-E
Timeline problem: the package that the Courier delivered to The Divide settlement could not be ED-E (as the wiki page says), since ED-E never got to Nararro (being shot and junked near Primm). I agree with the sense that the game text might have said this in some way, but I'd like to see the exact text, because I think it is wrong. In addition, it would likely render redundant the ED-E "clone" information, which includes the codes Ulysses needs to aim and arm the ICBMs. So I think "the package that talked" was not ED-E after all, though perhaps it was an eyebot (which would certainly add to the confusion). 76.126.161.143 00:12, October 7, 2011 (UTC)

When did the storms start?
If the Big MT meteorological mistake happened when the article says it happened (before the settlement of Divide was established) why would anybody have established a settlement there? The storms HAVE to be more recent, or the entire existence of a settlement called Divide would be completely unbelievable. 76.169.232.179 00:09, October 14, 2011 (UTC)

Notes section: "Evil, evil place"?
I moved the following Notes section here for discussion. It seems redundant, subjective, and non-notable.


 * ==Notes==
 * * Although it is obvious from the look of it, this is one of the places more devastated by the war, possibly even more than Washington DC or The Pitt, or bluntly, this is an evil, evil place.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Thanks! &mdash; UncleBubba ( T @ C ) 23:50, October 19, 2011 (UTC)