Forum:The Courier and the Burned Man

There are two characters who can be shot in the head twice and live through it. Assume that Joshua Graham is some manner of mutant with regenerative abilaties. Getting burned and tossed into the Grand Canyon might do so much tissue damage that the regeneration could change his appearance, or even his sex. If Graham took two bullets in the head and was buried, he might well wake up with no memories but a lot of potential.

I have not played through every ending or poked my nose into every cave and shack on the map, but i am looking for a reason to say that The Courier is not the Burned Man. What do you have for that? Toadbile 02:18, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Umm The Courier was not burned alive at the beginning of the game so I'm gonna say no to that.
 * You're an idiot.

Graham was burned four years ago when the Hoover dam fell to the NCR. Plenty of time for the scabs to come off. Toadbile 02:18, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Courier cannot be the Burned Man if you are The Courier. The Courier has no name in order for the player to fill the shoes. You are not Joshua Graham. He is an NPC that will most likely show up in a future Great Divide DLC. Plus Joshua wasn't shot then burned. He was just burned and then tossed into the Grand Canyon where he became King of the C.H.U.D.S. User: Moonshadow Dark

Saying that it hain't so is not proof that it hain't so, but pointing me at a place in the game where J.Graham is King of the cannibal troglodytes would be excactly the kind of fact that would put this silly theory to rest. So i will present it again:

EXIBIT A: Graham is known to have survived several assassinations by snipers shooting him in the head. Surviving this is a rare or possibly unique abilaty.

EXIBIT B: Courier Seven, upon seeing #6's name (or alias) immediatly fled Primm to the Southwest, spray painted "Go Home Courier Six" on a bus and dynamited the mountain pass to fill it with wrecked cars. Courier Seven knew something horrible about Courier Six and did NOT want to be followed. The Courier has a name that he may or may not have had for his whole life, or perhaps just for the last four years.

EXIBIT C: Courier Six, our beloved protagonist, remembers nothing prior to getting his brains scrambled by a pair of 9mm slugs. His past is a box, and the cat therein may or may not be Joshua Graham until we open the box with some ugly fact that destroys this hypothesis.

COUNTER A: The Courier might be female, and my point about full-body regeneration is a bit of a stretch.

COUNTER B: Everything known about Van Beauren, but that's not relevent.

COUNTER C: Having the Player Character be the Burned Man would, in fact, make the writing of sequals more difficult, and why would the authors have made their own job more difficult?

Anyhow, i will continue to kick the idea around until I find a cave full of CHUDs with a badly scarred chieftan. Toadbile 21:21, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

He's not, because (sorry but) it's idiotic! Who says that C7 spary painted that stuff on the bus? We just know he leggeed it. If someone had just lit you on fire and threw you in to a massive pit they would pessume you were dead. Don't you think you'd change your name? Seeing as everyone, including your old trib hates you how the hell are you gunna get a job? Also, why do people keep wanting to be spoon fed a backstory? The whole point of Fallout is that you are who you want to be! It's an RPG, you make your own backstory, you want a pre written backstory, the go play a standard platformer/FPS/ect. Also Benny fired once, youi lived because you're lucky, 9mm arnt that strong and you had a good doc. It's a stupid idea, no offence but you sir are wrong. Right: People give this stuff a rest. An RPG isn't about being spoon fed the past, it's about choosing your own life and past. 21:39, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * COUNTER EXIBIT A: So, he lived through a few head shots, you lived through one. There have been many real life events where real life people have lived through more than a 9mm to the head. It's not all that special or unique.
 * COUNTER EXIBIT B: So? Many people have bad blood, that doesn't mean they're a slaver's sexecond in command. You're meant to chose why they did that, what they have against you.
 * COUNTER EXIBIT C: He remembers his/her name, sure he could have made it up, but I'm sure he sill remembers some stuff. Like seeing that singer in Reno. His past is your choice, that, once again is the point of an RPG.

Well, I guess that settles that. User: MoonshadowDark

Yes it does. Jasper has spoken. 22:09, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Courier Six lived through two deaths. Mister Nash tells C7 that C6 was "alive and kicking", implying (but no, not explicitly stating) that C7 was certain that C6 was already dead. "It's idiotic" is not a refutation of an idea, even if it really a foolish one. I shant yet give it a rest because it's a toy i am playing with until it gets broken, although Counter Ex. A is pretty good. Toadbile 02:57, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

GODDAMMIT MAN! YOU'VE LOST THIS WAR! JUST GIVE UP BEFORE THEY USE THE BIG GUNS (skill) AND CAUSE A NUCLEAR FALLOUT (New Vegas). User: MoonshadowDark

Well how about this, you ARE the burned man. Not many outside the NCR and The Legion knows what Joshua Gram even looks like. The fall could of reshaped your face plus messed up your mind (the impact would be in fact enough to kill some one, but as people say Gram was hard to kill you could of lived). Ceaser most likely also blew the canyon wreckage to trap you in the canyon because every time you mention the burned man to him he cuts you off, implying that he is afraid of Gram coming back to kill him. So at this point you have no idea who you are just you are burned badly and no memories so you end up wandering for 4 years until you get shot in the face by Benny changing it even further. You survived the gunshot because you (Gram) had a talent for living through head shots. Another thing is during the DLC you are told to investigate the Canyon Wreckage and when you show up you read the Graffiti written on the wreckage which could be from a legion member or some one who knows you lived and as a warning is saying if you continue down this path you will only meet despair if you discover the truth about yourself (Gram was once a mass murdering general).

Finally sorry JASPER42 but it is kinda amazing if you live through getting shot in the face as people who live through a head shot end up mentally challenged or lose a lot of their MEMORY along with the problem of losing the face, and in KotOR you don't remember anything either as you lost your memory it was the main part of the story (rediscovering them). A Fallout New Vegas DLC could follow this story path. --Razor3664

If Joshua is the Courier and invincable, why is it that an Alpha Deathclaw can rip him to shreds? Look point blank. You are the Courier. Joshua Graham is the Burned Man. He leads the C.H.U.D.S of The Grand Canyon. He will show up in The Divide DLC. Seriously. That theory is ridiculous. Geez there is no hidden meaning to the fact that Six survived a gunshot to the head. Hell Benny is a shitty shot anyway. That man couldn't hit the broad side of a Big Horner. User: MoonshadowDark

I can see that the i am causing some people mental anguish by stretching the imagination beyond their capacity. I'll stick to basic facts of plain living: radioactive geckos, ageless ghouls, plasma pistols and other mundanities of life. Now turn off the caps lock before you get a nose bleed and attract those awful wasps again. Toadbile 21:08, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Toadbile, no one wants to cause you grief, but three things prevent that. 1. Joshua Graham is loyal to Caesar. Why would he work for NCR, House or himself? He'd be more foucused on getting back into Caesars good graces. 2. The Courier has been to Montana prior to New Vegas. Caesar Legion has spent most of it's run conquering Colorado and Arazonia. When would Joshua have time to get to Montana? He has spent four years recovering not only painful burns but also the broken bones from being tossed into a Canyon. and 3. If The Courier was the Burned Man, The the Great Divide legends don't make sense as Legion legend dictates that they have seen him in the Divide itself and heard him in the night. Sorry Toadbile, but the facts counter your theory. User: MoonshadowDark

Joshua Graham did not speak, save for a single raspy quote when entering Burning Springs. By entering dialogue with Doc Mitchell at the beginning, you prove you can't be Graham. :P Nitty Tok. 21:12, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Toadbile, you're basically saying "You just aren't smart enough (like me) to understand it." Which is always a terrible argument. It is an interesting theory, but you don't just have "scabs" that come off after a while when you are severely burned. If you were to be burned alive and live, you would have permanent, visible, tissue damage all over your body --Pongsifu 21:20, November 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Toadbile, seriously, have you seen burn victims? Here's an image of a minor third degree burn. This little patch is what Joshua Graham looked like a week after being thrown into the Grand Canyon. Four years aren't nearly enough time to regenerate that amount of tissue damage, no matter if you're a mutant or not. Hell, supermutants tend to be scarred as hell thanks to their regeneration. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 21:25, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * OH MY GOD! THAT IS GNARLY! Oh that'd be awesome to see Joshua like that. But they'll just make him a Mummy guy. :( User: Moonshadow Dark

Tell you what. YOU can be the burned man. Role play as him all you want. I (by which I mean my F:NV guy) am Sly, a legion cannibal assassin, who, although is meant to be homosexual, falls in love with the BoS woman. He kills himself after end game because he feels gulity for destroying the bucker (killing the woman in the process). He also kills and eats Caeser (compleating the Meat of Champions perk) during the final battle, because, hey, he's a total nutcase. 22:01, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Mine is a simple waster named Miguel who fell in love with Veronica. "Wasn't Veronica a lesbian?" No. "I'm fairly certain she was." No. She. Wasn't. "But it's in the game wiki-what are you-AH WHAT ARE YOU DOING? OH GOD HE'S BEATING ME TO DEATH WITH MY OWN SKULL! THIS DOESN'T SEEM PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE!" Yeah. Like I said, Miguel and Veronica are in love. They are currently helping Mr. House. User: MoonshadowDark

im intrigued by the burned man theorys, but i have to face facts and 99% chance is against this being true, so im not going to hold my breath, personally i would love a challenge facing someone of his toughness, but sadly..it wont be a challenge...ive given up on a challenge after the time i got AMBUSHED by the "legendary" deathclaw, and 2-shot him with my sniper rifle, armor pen rounds. Toolazytomakeaaccount 10:53, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

You know what I don't think anyone has touched on? Joshua Gram was a MAN. How can, by being burned, you become a woman? I didn't know a side effect of fire was gender change, did you? Toad, shut up and play the goddamn game. Sombar1