Talk:Submachine gun

"The 10mm SMG in Fallout 3 is only effective at close-range by unleashing a hail of 10mm lead. However, the SMG is next to useless outside of this range."

Anyone else think this is wrong? I think it's pretty decent at medium range. Granted I'm not sniping with it, but saying it's only accurate at close range seems inaccurate to me. Paul (Evil) 20:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Being as the SMG is not switchable between single/burst (for that matter, neither are the assault rifles), 'unleashing a hail of 10mm lead' is a subjective view at best. Also, there's no scale, so judgment of range is also subjective. I've used the 10mm SMG with acceptable results when I didn't have lots of 5.56 rounds.Shadowgm 20:19, 5 January 2009 (UTC)Shadowgm


 * On higher difficulty levels, I found the weapon to be next to useless on any range exceeding a few meters, as many bullets will miss the target and the few that hit deal only little damage. So even while bringing most enemies down eventually and 10mm ammo being very common, it´s not effective as you need to reload constantly, leaving you very vulnerable. Golan2781 15:17, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't look like the MP9
I'm not the pre-eminent authority on guns, but I do know enough to know that the 10mm SMG doesn't look like the MP9. If you ask me, it looks more like the Czech Skorpion smg.

Kiss0fketchup 21:41, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Which MP9 are you referring to? As far as I'm aware, H&K doesn't (yet) market a weapon called the "MP9". This weapon appears to be fictional. (their website mentions no such gun)Fiddlesoup 06:22, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

H&K isn't the manufacturer of the MP9, actually it is produced by Brügger & Thomet. The MP9 is a development of the Steyr TMP (Tactical Machine Pistol). The only difference between the MP9 and TMP is the addition of a folding stock and a picatinny rail on top.

Kiss0fketchup 22:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I knew about that gun, there are a couple others called "MP9" as well, which is why I asked. At any rate, Fallout 1 predates the B&T MP9 by several years. BTs MP9 was produced first in 2004; Fallout 1 came out in 1997 (the Interdynamic MP-9 and Ruger MP9 were around then, though).Fiddlesoup 16:59, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I think that it looks like an M4 Spectre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_M4) with a curved magazine and the foregrip removed. I think it's grasping to compare it to the Skorpion.


 * It's called the MP9 in-game in FO1 and 2. It's not related to the real-world MP9, but it's an alternate timeline. Ausir(talk) 18:55, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

If I were to compare it to any MP series weapons I'd say it looks like the MP-5K, without the forward pistol grip.71.94.63.105 07:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The only mp I know is the mp5 and thats about as far as the mps go. and plus, any mp fires 5.56mm no 10mm so I dont think it really matters its one gun if it bugs you that much use something elseNukacolacap 16:08, December 3, 2009 (UTC)nukacolacap

Visual bug
NPCs that carry 10mm SMGs in Fallout 3 will frequently appear in an unarmed pose with the gun floating upside-down in front of their hand. This includes Sydney's unique Ultra SMG. Nymphonomicon 13:24, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I think that happens with most, or perhaps all, guns. It's especially annoying when it happens to a follower since they won't be able to fire it anymore and will just stand around taking damage. It's easy to fix, though, by asking the follower about his tactics. Fgibson 06:41, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Reskinned?
The article claims the gun was re-skinned in Anchorage. However, our article on Anchorage doesn't mention any re-skinning, nor can I find a substantiation of this claim anywhere on the Web. For that matter, the gun does not appear to me to have changed. Can anyone confirm that this weapon was re-skinned? If not, that should be deleted from the article. Fgibson 06:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I was wondering the same thing, I tried equipping an Op-anchorage SMG and a regular one to the hot keys and switched back and forth and all I noticed is that the Op anch, one is slightly bluish black while the normal one is grey black. But that could also just be lighting issues.


 * Confirming this. It's just lighting, looking through the data files for OA, there is not a reskin for the 10mm SMG.Fiddlesoup 19:51, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Failure to fire?
Have any of you noticed, when the SMG is in bad condition, sometimes when you fire, it want shoot, and he takes the mag out, bang it on the side of the weapon, and put it ind again? saw this a few times, when down to less then 20%

Yeah it's just gun jamming, same thing will happen with almost all rifles too.71.94.63.105 04:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Happens with all weapons that use ammo. Nitty 04:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * wow ive never seen this happening but it sounds amazing detail :)--Replikanxxl 12:34, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

UMP-9 much?
A lot of people say that the Fallout 3 SMG looks like a Skorpion. To me, it doesn't resemble a one in any way (besides the folded stock). I'd say it looks like a lot like an UMP-9 (albeit slightly smaller). Here take a look at a picture (the bottom one):

Thoughts?

damage value in point lookout
ive heard about some bugs or glitches and ive seen 81 damage value with a not fully repaired 10 mm SMG--Replikanxxl 12:33, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

My SMG's damage is going up and down like crazy.When I got it fisrt,23 damage.Then 43.Then 59.Then 63.Then 76.Then 83.Now it's 91 damage.And all of this fluctuating damages spikes happened on the Pitt Bridge.The further I went down the pitt Bridge,the more damage it did.When I get back to the capital,I'm gonna take down an overlord with this.See if the damage stays the same in the capit-al.I'd like to know. HuangLee 17:26, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

LOL XD I have 10 Agility, 100 Small Guns, Level 21, and it only does around 58 damage halfway down its health 118.136.38.69 14:18, March 14, 2010 (UTC).700nitroexpress

Rename "SMG"
I think renamed the article "SMG" is much better, since it's less specific for the future models and the SMG of Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel is a 9mm SMG. Itachou [~talk~] 11:04, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

Weapons Misplaced
A few of these weapons included in SMGs are carbines or bull-pup Assault Rifles, and don't really fall under SMGs. If no one objects, I'll move them to Assault rifle. --Revolverman 15:41, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which weapons are you referring to? There are only 3 weapons on this page and I'm pretty sure they're all SMGs. Ausir(talk) 15:44, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * The G11 and G11e are caseless bullpup assault rifles. The Styer is a bullpup firing the more common 5.56, and the Ruger AC556F is standard layout assault rifle. --Revolverman 15:47, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * None of those are listed on the page. -- 15:50, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Uhhh... oops. I meant to post this on the SMG page. How I put it here is a total Derp moment for me. Sorry. --Revolverman 15:51, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait, this talkpage redirects from the SMG page. --Revolverman 15:52, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I removed the redirect, you can discuss it there. --Anon undefined 16:08, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I merged the two pages. Ausir(talk) 16:08, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Anyway, yes. If any of them are miscategorized, go ahead. Ausir(talk) 16:11, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Calico with a stock?
Where did that pic of the calico come from? cuz the one in tactics doesn't have a stock in game. 98.209.199.80 21:50, November 12, 2010 (UTC)some dude

.45 Submachine Gun
The .45 Submachine Gun in New Vegas IS the Thompson from Fallout 2. So why not merge the two?
 * Stylistically the guns are similar and yes, while the guns are based off of the same gun, they are two different guns. The Fallout 2 version is based off of the M1927 version most likely and is fitting for the mobster's vibe. However the .45 Submachine Gun is a hybrid between two weapons, much like how the Automatic Rifle isn't a 100% copy of the BAR and This Machine is the M1 Grand. The .45 Submachine's body is based off of the M1A1 which is the model used by US servicemen during WWII. However the A1 model is incapable of accepting the 50 round drums of the older models. This fact there makes a different, Fallout only version of the Thompson. --Never Rub Another Man&#39;s Rubarb 13:45, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

The 10mm merge
I don't think they are the same weapon. They do look different despite filling the same role. Is there a ref for them being the same weapon?--Ant2242 (talk) 20:29, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I've merged them as per the precedent for the Avenger minigun. Sawyer explained that the differences are due to the way the game engine works. Furthermore, the 10mm SMG in Fallout 3 looks a great deal like the one in Fallout (2), with the same basic shape, lack of stock, curved magazine, boxiness... Plus, it has an H&K style fire selector. H&K was the manufacturer of the MP9 (Fallout SMG). Tagaziel (talk) 12:24, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Is there a forumspring reference like the CZ57 Avenger?--Ant2242 (talk) 13:36, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't find a Spring account for the Bethesda developers. Still, this set the precedent. We've also merged the minigun types into one basing on the Avenger precedent. I think it's a good idea, since it allows to avoid redundancy in having different entries for weapons that are reimaginings of pre-existing weapons. In addition, there's the case of the 14mm pistol and the 12.7mm pistol, where the latter has a number of differences from the original, yet is intended to be the same model. The same goes for the reinforced combat armor, the .223 pistol, and more.  Tagaziel (talk) 16:09, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

True. I guess. I just prefer that there was a reference.--Ant2242 (talk) 16:42, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Me too, but Bethesda developers are notoriously secretive. :( Tagaziel (talk) 07:14, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

For the record I still think that they are two different weapons.--Ant2242 (talk) 02:42, 30 September 2013 (UTC)