Talk:Survival Expert

All the Replies
I made a small hack, and dug up all the replies from the game scripts, after some tweaking. I added those to the main quest page Wasteland Survival Guide. If anyone (there's a lot of figuring out in this discussion) has figured out all or any of the requirements for each reply, please fill in.
 * --Mirar 08:39, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

''NOTE: If you have the Robotics Expert perk, you can instantly complete the RobCo portion of Chapter 3 and it will count as if the bonus was completed so that you will still qualify for the Survival Guru perk. '' : I believe this is actually a Science requirement? And it's in the reply list I just made, I think... "I could just write that section for you. Trust me -- I'm an expert." Mirar 09:44, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

General Info
I just moved perception answers to the intelligent one since it doesnt help you get the 3% crit, however you can still answer perception whenever it comes and bottom on the rest to get it, perception is for the smart perk though. After you complete the first chapter Moira will say that it will be a book for smart people (ish).

It seems that you will get answers available to you based on your highest ability Scores. For example with 10 Intelligence, 9 Agility and 9 Perception you will get only Intelligence answers most of the time.(needs comfirmation)
 * Above 8 (as I know), you get special answers. The thing is answers differ for each objective, and you probably won't see intelligence and agility together most of the time. I remember that, for that minefield quest, if you do bonus objective aswell, you get agility and endurance options, but not intelligence, on the other hand, if you don't do bonus objective, your answers are intelligence and endurance. This probably is the most horrible quest since it's perk reward changes all the time and you cannot keep a good track of it, best way is opening console, removing unnecessary one (+6 to medicine and science? come on, I want DR or crit...) and adding whatever you want. I did a big mistake and answered in an intelligent way, and I was shocked with the outcome :) Goekhan 20:15, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I have seen the Strength answers with a total Strength of 7. I still ended up going with the Intelligent answers for flavor reasons. The extra DR or crit chance would be nice, but my other feats are helping with that.


 * I have s6 p6 e4 c8(-1) i10 a6 l7(+1). I always get those Charisma and Intelligence answers as choices, I am think your answer choices are based on your highest two stats. --Voidvector 12:48, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The thing is, it needs big testing to test these. Lots of loading and saving probably :) As I've said above, when I didn't do bonus objective on minefield, I had 2 choices: END and INT. When I loaded a previous save and brought a present, answers were END and AGI (I was having S1 P4 E9 C2 I9 A9 L5). Oh, in addition, on mirelurk part of the quest, there was only INT as I remember, or I'm just wrong.Goekhan 14:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

It's more likely that you get answers based on what your highest attributes are. For me, my highest are Perception and Intelligence at 7 and Agility at 9, and those are the only ones I've seen come up so far. Obviously that "higher than 8" thing isn't true if I'm getting I/P options with them at 7.

Get your stat to at least 7 then you'll see the the answer for the given stat. If it doesn't show then the quest simply doesn't have an assosiated answer. --Seraphipoo 16:25, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I just added each required attribute of each type of this perk to the table.
 * Normal(None/The top answer)
 * Tough(En)
 * Smart(In)
 * Sly(Ag)
 * Snide(Pe/The bottom answer)

Are all of them correct? I doubt Snide type depends on [Perception]answer or usually the bottom option(which always answers in a snide way).

There are other stat, I saw Strength on Mirelurks quest (about how the Mirelurks don't attack each other so there's no dispute for power, Perception on Minefield and some other (as Servius stated below) and Charisma on Getting Irradiated (I remember the last part of the answer "I'm in real good shape" haha). And yes, there's no Luck answer.--Seraphipoo 16:25, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Someone above said they have seen Strength options, and I think I have too with a different toon. My guess is, unless there are additional rewards for Strength, Perception, etc., that Strength AND/OR Endurance options will lead to the "Tough" reward. It also seems possible that Agility AND/OR Charisma may lead to the "Sly" reward, since it grants bonuses to Sneak (Agility) AND Speech (Charisma). Has anyone ever seen a Charisma option? It might require Charisma to be the highest stat you have, which I'm guessing is a very rare thing. There may also be a different reward for Perception, since it has been seen as a conversation option, yet none of the known reward options boost Explosives, Lockpick, or Energy Weapons. A final explanation is that some conversation options connected with, say, Perception, don't lead to any of the special rewards. Instead they may count towards the "Normal" reward and just be in there for flavor. Servius 13:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The types I have seen are all listed here, haven't seen a charisma answer since it was my dump stat and was 1 all the time. But I'd say its logical to assume that Charisma would go for the Sly perk.Someone just needs to verify this ingame.--SkyHi 16:12, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Charisma does appear as an option, just read my post above. Based on my readings all stats except luck would an answer choice once in awhile. This quest should be easily testable on the PC, just have someone playing on the PC edit their toon's stats with the console, and load to try out different stats. --Voidvector 19:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I think it just gets you highest stat, always displays it (when there is an associated answer) and cycles through the 2nd and 3rd highest for the other ones. My reasoning here is that my agility is highest and only a couple of times did it coem up as an answer, where intelligence and strength came up. J.J.-Lopez

Acutal Stats and Response Options Per Chapter/Task
If you get other conversation options than those shown below, please add your name, stats, and the additional conversation option(s).


 * Preliminary Findings
 * Presuming the system counts modifications to your SPECIALs (from clothing, alcohol, etc.), the conversation options are not based on your top 2 stats. I've changed my top 2 stats between saves and they did not present any new conversation options.
 * Not every quest will have an option for certain atributes. With the same stats, some allowed a [Perception] option, others an [Agility] option, etc.
 * Chapter 1
 * Super-Duper Mart
 * Servius 16:42, 17 November 2008 (UTC). I completed both the standard and Optional parts.  I tried this with a few different SPECIAL configurations (with the use of clothing, alcohol, and MENTATS).  Below are all the stat set-ups I used, but the conversation options were always the same.
 * Stats
 * S=2, P=6, E=6, C=2, I=9, A=8, L=9
 * S=2, P=7, E=6, C=2, I=9, A=8, L=9
 * S=3, P=7, E=6, C=3, I=8, A=8, L=9
 * S=3, P=10, E=6, C=3, I=10, A=8, L=9
 * Conversation Options
 * (Normal) "I found Raiders and a robot. It was hardly a safe place to scavenge."
 * [Intelligence] "The Raiders were using the pharmacy as a place to store their best gear."
 * (Snide) "I had a fun party with some Raiders. Then a guard robot jumped out of a cake."
 * Radiation Poisoning
 * Servius 17:17, 17 November 2008 (UTC) I completed both the standard and Optional parts, though only with one set of stats this time.
 * Stats
 * S=1, P=7, E=3, C=2, I=9, A=6, L=9
 * Conversation Option
 * (Normal) "Just do your examination and fix me up, please."
 * [Perception] "If I listen closely, I can hear my genes crying.
 * (Snide) "Too...tired...to be...snide."
 * Minefield
 * Servius 19:24, 17 November 2008 (UTC) Completed both standard and optional parts. Stats: S2, P7, E6, C1, I9, A8, L9.
 * (Normal) "That whole place is a deathtrap."
 * [Perception] Watch the details and look for broken patterns. That's where the traps are."
 * [Agility] Fast hands and faster wits can get you an awful lot. Including landmines."
 * (Snide) "Oh, disarming it's real easy. Just jump up and down on it.  You go first."
 * Chapter 2
 * Mole Rats
 * Servius 05:31, 18 November 2008 (UTC) Completed both standard and optional parts. Stats: S2, P8, E6, C1, I9, A8, L9.  The same conversation options were presented when I drank a bit and had S3, P8, E6, C2, I8, A8, L9.
 * (Normal) "Sorry, Moira, but your "Repellent" is fatal to Mole Rats."
 * [Intelligence] "It appears that Mole Rats have a most fatal allergy to it. Explosively so."
 * (Snide) "It's like explosive whack-a-Mole Rat. Can I get it in bullet form?  For people?"
 * Mirelurks
 * Servius 03:22, 18 November 2008 (UTC) Completed both standard and optional parts. Stats: S2, P7, E6, C1, I9, A8, L9.
 * (Normal) "They're definitely vicious and highly territorial.
 * [Intelligence] "They descended from local crabs. I'd call them "Scylla Serrata Horrendus.""
 * (Snide?)  "They've got a little, bubbling castle and they spend all day circling it."
 * Physical Injury
 * Servius 19:33, 17 November 2008 (UTC) Completed both standard and optional parts. Stats: S2, P7, E6, C1, I9, A8, L9.
 * (Normal) "The adrenaline helps. So does the fear of death.  There's a lot of both."
 * [Intelligence] "Pain's an abstract. I stay focused on the definable things, like survival."
 * (Snide) "My only solace is thinking about inflicting this pain on people like you."
 * Chapter 3
 * Rivet City
 * Servius 06:47, 18 November 2008 (UTC) Completed both standard and optional parts. Stats: S2, P8, E6, C1, I10, A8, L9.
 * (Normal) "It began as a successful science station, and traders settled in around it."
 * [Intelligence] "It began as a research station, which is why it's still a scientific haven."
 * (Snide) "Some old coot says he took these notes. They seem reasonable enough."
 * RobCo
 * Servius 19:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC) Completed both standard and optional parts. Stats: S2, P8, E6, C1, I10, A8, L9.
 * (Normal) "Once I adjusted their programming, the robots were no problem."
 * [Intelligence] "Even after reprogramming, the robots were of questionable value as allies."
 * (Snide) "It was robotic carnage. But I caused it, so it was the okay sort of carnage."
 * Arlington Library
 * Servius 16:02, 18 November 2008 (UTC) Completed both standard and optional parts. Stats: S2, P8, E6, C1, I10, A8, L9.
 * (Normal) "The archive was probably the most useful information in there."
 * [Intelligence] "This is an entire library's archives. You know how valuable this is, right?"
 * [Agility] "The place was a death trap. But I got in and out as quick as I could."
 * (Snide) "The librarian's on duty. I'd have brought you a present, but I forgot my card."


 * Nice research, well done. Although you could have tried boosting up your endurance and seeing if it had any impact on the answers. --SkyHi 16:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

What I was hoping is that other people, with different stats, who got other conversation options, would add to what I did by posting their stats and the additional conversation options, so that we could start to see what might trigger those different options. My research can act as a baseline to compare other people's experience to. Servius 16:09, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Ff1 20:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC) Adding my options/choices as I work through the quest (work in progress, will be adding as I complete each section).

Note: SPECIAL numbers in brackets are to show changes to base stats resulting from either item buffs or condition de-buffs.

Chapter 1

Radiation Poisoning Completed both standard and optional parts. S=4(5-1), P=7, E=4(7-3), C=1, I=8, A=8(10-2), L=7


 * Conversation Options
 * (Normal) Just do your examination and fix me up, please.
 * [Perception] If I listen closely, I can hear my genes crying.
 * (Snide) Too...tired...to be...snide.


 * Conversation Choice
 * [Perception] If I listen closely, I can hear my genes crying.

Super-Duper Mart Completed both standard and optional parts. S=5, P=7, E=7(6+1), C=1, I=8, A=10(9+1), L=7


 * Conversation Options
 * (Normal) I found Raiders and a robot. It was hardly a safe place to scavenge.
 * [Intelligence] The Raiders were using the pharmacy as a place to store their best gear.
 * [Endurance] Those Raiders must've shot me twenty times. But who's counting?
 * (Snide) I had a fun party with some Raiders. Then a guard robot jumped out of a cake.


 * Conversation Choice
 * [Intelligence] The Raiders were using the pharmacy as a place to store their best gear.

Minefield Completed both standard and optional parts. S=5, P=9(8+1), E=7(6+1), C=1, I=10, A=9(8+1), L=7


 * Conversation Options
 * (Normal) That whole place is a deathtrap.
 * [Perception] Watch the details and look for broken patterns. That's where the traps are.
 * [Endurance] There may have been an explosion or two. Oh, and a sniper. No big deal.
 * [Agility] Fast hands and faster wits can get you an awful lot. Including landmines.
 * (Snide) Oh, disarming it's real easy. Just jump up and down on it. You go first.


 * Conversation Choice
 * [Agility] Fast hands and faster wits can get you an awful lot. Including landmines.

Ff1 20:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

DR Bonus vs Crit Bonus
Also, to reach 85 DR, there are a couple of perks one must take; Cyborg, Toughness, Barkskin and you have 25 natural DR. When you get T-51b Power armor set, it gives you 60 more. But the thing is, you'll take heavy damage (and if you're playing on very hard, they only aim for your head meaning your helmet will pop quickly) and you'll lose DR in time. And you cannot repair that Power Armor. But +6 DR from this perk really helps a lot, since you can get Crow's caravan upgraded and he'll be having 65+ in repair, and thus you'll be staying on 85 nearly all the time. 3% crit vs 6DR, I'd go for crit if I'm not getting hit a lot (or killing fast for me - or maybe having a nice companion). But if I'm getting loads of hits, DR it is. If you're a melee fighter (ninja in other words), just go for DR since there are no rolls in this game, just direct hits (believe me, they're direct hits. Try to shoot someone with a hunting rifle out-of-VATS that is stationary and yards away, it'll hit. but when you go into VATS, it says you have 5% chance to hit ?? weird but exploitable :D ) Goekhan 14:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed, the + DR perk is the best and most versatile choice imho. Ive added a note to the article saying that taking the Tough or Snide perk is generally better. --SkyHi 16:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Has anyone tested to see whether that extra 3% chance translates into a noticable difference? For my first run I'll be taking the DR, see if I notice anything vs the second run I'll give the critical chance boost a try, however on initial inspection it would seem that DR is the only viable option, the rest being more flavorful than of great use.Nurotic257 15:10, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The crit perk is definitely worth taking for a sneaker. 3% may not seem like much, but bear in mind that most weapons have critical multipliers, boosting this percentage.

With the Perk Pitt Fighter the choice get's a bit more difficult. As this adds additional 3 DR you can have 28 DR naked without the Survival Expert Perk. Taking the DR and using a T-51b armor set, you would have a theoretically 94 DR, however capped at 85 DR. These 9 DR as buffer means, your armor can be degraded to almost 75% condition without any loose of DR. IMHO this is overkill.

However also for crit there is a drawback: With 10 Luck and Finesse you have already 15% crit. Using VATS you get additional 15% giving you a total of 30% for ranged weapons (or 45% for melee weapons with the Ninja Perk) Using weapons with a high crit-multiplier like the Deathclaw Gauntlet or sniper rifle would make this perk useless (150% for the sniper or 225% for the gauntlet are cut at 100%). However while using weapons with an average crit-multiplier like the Scoped .44 Magnum this perk could be very valuable (60% for this magnum). 84.56.155.106


 * According to the formula for critical chance posted at the official GECK wiki here geck:Critical_Hit_Chance_Formula the +15% VATS bonus is applied after the weapon's critical multiplier and does not get multiplied. Thus the Sniper Rifle from your example winds up with 75% outside of VATS and 90% critical chance in VATS, rather than 150%. (If you then add the additional 3% from the perk, however, things change. The bonus critical chance from perks IS multiplied, thus for the sniper rifle that 3% is really 15% which pushes the in VATS crit chance to 105%, capping at 100%.
 * It should also be noted that while that is 5% of overkill for the 5X multiplier weapons and would be even more for said Deathclaw Gauntlet witn Ninja the overkill is not entirely superfluous. Weapon condition is factored into your crit chance as well, so for the Sniper Rifle for example you can still get 100% crits at 94% condition if you have 18% critical chance. Any lower than that condition and you will no longer have 100% criticals.
 * -mannon 18:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Are Bonuses Stackable?
Question: "If you complete all 9 of the optional quest tasks, you will get a copy of the book, as well as the Survival Expert perk, which adds +6% to Poison & Radiation resistance. Also, depending on the type of answers you used after finishing each quest (Strong, Agile, Endurance, Intelligent or without any attribute) you will receive these bonuses: +6% damage resistance for Endurance, + 3% critical hit chance for Perception, +6 Sneak, +6 Speech for Agile, +6 Medicine +6 Science for Intelligence or +15 Health for not using any attributes in the answers. If you complete 6-8 optional quest, you will only 2/3 of the rewards listed (egg. +4 % rad resist, +4% poison resist etc...) and if you do 0-5 optional task you will receive only 1/3 of the max possible reward."

Do I get different bonuses per answer?


 * I don't think the bonuses are stackable. +6*9=54 to 2 skills, or +15*9=135HP, +6*9=54 damage resistance, or even +3*9=27 Critical chance... Any of them sounds crazy imo.
 * If I was correct, you only gain the final one type of survivor depends on which way you answered most times. And the bonuses cannot be stacked.
 * No, you get the perk when you finish the entire quest. And the bonus depends on density of your answers. If you answer 4 Int, 2 End, 2 Normal, 1 Agility, you'll get Intelligence bonus. On the other hand, since they're sharing different ID's, I think it's possible to add each kind of this perk from the console - i.e. cheating :) Goekhan 14:38, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Removed the following discussion from the main article:
''I had a Strength of 9 and Intelligence of 7, and after completing either the Super Mart or the radiaion part of Chapter one, was granted access to the Intelligence answer but not a Strength answer. My guess is that a Strength answer is not available for that quest. This also confirms that stats of 7 or higher will enable the conversation option.'' Speculation: I believe that the choices are tied to 2 SPECIAL each, Normal and Snide are constant but Smart needs Int+Per, Tough needs Str+End and Sly needs Agi+Cha. Further Speculation: I don't think its a combination of stats, my character had a Charisma of 8 and an Agility of 5, yet I still got the Sly/Charisma option for all but two of the onbjectives, I think those two were the Minefield and Arlington Library objectives.

Someone oughta edit in that Charisma also gives you dialogue options for the various quests, with a Charisma of 8, I got a special [Charisma] response for all of the quests except the Minefield and I think, Rivet City history one.

List different "Prefaces" for the final Guide?
I wish there was a place listing the text you see when you look at your Data Notes on the finished guide. They differ according to how well you did and the five variations, right? I'll be happy to post mine. I'm not sure how to present them, though, without making the Guide page cluttered. Maybe just a link to a different page where they are all listed? -RedKnight7 01:07, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Using speech i.e lying?
If you successfully lie to Moira using speech every time (except radiation poisoning and getting hurt or any others you can't lie about), what perk will you get? I know that if you talk her out of doing it, you get dream crusher, but I don't see what you get if you just keep lying to her.

My guess would either be dream crusher or just the standard junior survivor with normal option. Any ideas?

Perk Bugged?
So I just completed the Wasteland Survival Guide quest on my first playthrough, and I ended up completing 7 of the 9 optional objectives (the only optional objectives I didn't complete were the Super Duper Mart and Mole Rat Repellant).

This means I should have gotten the Survival Expert Perk, but instead I received the Junior Survivor Perk. What gives? Has anyone else encountered this bug?

I'm pretty miffed about it. If anyone else can confirm a similar experience we should definitely add it to the Bugs section... Let me know. - Runch 15:09, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, after looking around online, it seems like if you lie about any of the quests, you end up getting the Junior Survivor Perk at the end, regardless of how many optional objectives you complete. That would explain my case, since I lied about killing the Mole Rats and lied about exploring the mine field.  I'll update the page to reflect this. - Runch 21:49, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Moved to Talk
Moved this edit about getting the perk to the talk page:

(Please review, as I lied about traveling to Minefield, but did give her a mine. It was a speech check and I earned the Survival Guru Perk at the end. -PS3 version)

I believe that you can lie and get the perk if you give Moria a Bottlecap Mine instead of a Frag one, but I'm not sure. Techercizer (say hi)(pwnage) 22:26, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Also moved this:
 * On the PS3 version, I lied to Moria about the molerat quest because I killed them all previously. I still ended up with the "expert" perk because I did most of the bonus objectives.
 * Techercizer (say hi)(pwnage) 22:38, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Doing the "Traversing a Mine Field" quest of the WSG and the "Light Step" Perk
Just a word of advise, I'm currently playing though a new game in FO3 and initially thought it would be a good idea to get the "Light Step" perk before starting this quest. Unfortunately, having the "Light Step" perk by design, does not trigger the mines normally and even though you technically disarm and take one or more of the mines in Minefield, it unfortunately does not trigger the Optional Objective of this quest.


 * My suggestion is to complete this quest (thus making the optional objective easier) before getting the "Light Step" perk, particularly if you are aiming for the highest reward, the "Survival Guru" Perk. For those who have played too far ahead to revert to an earlier save.


 * I was able to work around this by first getting rid of Arkansas the sniper (by killing him or putting the slave collar on him for the "Strictly Business" Quest), then bringing a follower, in my case Dogmeat, with me.


 * Save once you spot an undetonated mine, then walk backwards a little so that Dogmeat (or whatever follower you brought along) triggers the mine once he gets in close enough proximity.


 * Be warned, the delay is much faster (one beep instead of several before the mine blows up) when a follower triggers the land mine, once you hear the first beep, click on the button or key to disarm it (X button on the PS3).


 * If you are fast enough to disarm the mine triggered by your follower, it should circumvent the problem with the "Light Step" perk and you should be able to get the optional reward.


 * If the mine blows before you can disarm it then reload the save and try again, or just move onto the next undetonated land mine. I hope this is of help.

Good Hunting...

--Derragorn 20:38, December 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * You can turn in any old mine to Moira to complete the optional objective.--Gothemasticator 21:47, December 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * That may be the case (I would have to actually start a new game to prove whether or not that is indeed the case), but for sure you have to trigger the mine first by proximity then disarm it, I know because while plying on the PS3 at least, I had a half-dozen mines from Minefield already in my inventory and I made it to the playground, I only got credit for reaching the playground and NOT for any of the mines I had in my inventory, most likely due to my "Light Step" perk not triggering the mines in the first place even though I "technically" disarmed them. It was only after I performed the steps above using Dogmeat to trigger the mine first before disarming it was the Optional Objective satisfied.--Derragorn 02:34, December 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, you only complete the optional objective upon giving a mine to Moira, not before.--Gothemasticator 10:07, December 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yup. -- Porter21 (talk) 10:11, December 15, 2009 (UTC)