Forum:Location layout revision

While our current location layout is an improvement over not having a standardized layout at all, I think it's still far from perfect. However, instead of the usual "Porter creates a big-ass list of things to change and everybody secretly curses him for doing that", we're going to take a somewhat different approach for this revision :)

If you have any suggestions for improvements, please simply post them here. I'll post my own suggestions later (in order to avoid this turning into a discussion of my ideas rather than people voicing their own).

You can skim the archives of the FO3 locations project for previously mentioned issues if you like. -- Porter21 (talk) 08:24, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I for one would be quite interested in hearing your suggestions, and I have no objections to a "treatise" :P 09:34, May 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, before going into details I'd really be interested to see what other people see as areas which could be improved. I'll give a few examples of what I personally consider as sub-optimal though:
 * Local maps. Maps without any kind of markers etc aren't really all that useful, and cramming them into the infobox doesn't help either.
 * Loot listings. We get requests for not only listing notable loot every now and then (see Forum:Item locations, for example), and it'd be worth contemplating whether this could be added to the pages without flooding them with too much unnecessary detail.
 * World map locations. The current method of taking images of the ingame world map does work (somewhat), but a solution which doesn't require people to take tons of screenshots would be better in my opinion, seeing as a significant chunk of our editors doesn't have the means of taking proper screenshots in the first place (due to playing on consoles). In addition, the current method only really works for FO3; something which works for all games would be better.
 * -- Porter21 (talk) 12:16, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

I am ok with the current info box requirements but some places (such as "A Wander's" camp) are only one structure without an inside. But other then that i think it is good as it is. But rare items such as Pots (the ones called "Pot"), Gum-Drops, Bubble Gum, Mini Nukes, if there is an Amory with more then Unique weapons the number of all the guns, and the amount of Stim packs lining around in addition to a list of unique items and weapons. Vault 815 17:28, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

I like Porter's suggestions. I'd say implement his, the loot idea would be a help for some people. Insane! 01:19, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

I think the locations layout should not require the appearance section (and probably most of the other layouts shouldn't require this), because all of the locations only appear in one game and very few are mention in other games. The appearance section is usually just a single sentence, so it would be easy to establish what game(s) a location is from in the beginning of the article. Also, the game icons in the upper-right corner do a good job of this, too. Appearances could also be place in the infobox. Another thing I'd would like to see (that isn't necessarily related to the layout, but is related to locations) is a section of the location infobox that list locations that are nearby the location the infobox is about. That way if players are just wandering around in Fallout 3 (and eventually Fallout: New Vegas) and using this website, they can quickly go to one location article to the next without doing a search or looking through the list of locations. However, it may be difficult to establish what is and isn't close to a location. Perhaps there should be a maximum number or near by locations and then users can work with that to decide which are the closest. As for the loot idea I think it would be too difficult and time consuming to do and ultimately not be worth while. At most we could probably make good size loot list for way less than half the Fallout 3 articles. However, with the upcoming release of Fallout: New Vegas, we might get more users that could create these list. If we were to do this, we would need to create a subpage (Like on the Simpsons Wiki, though it doesn't have to be exactly like this) in order to create a nice list without flooding the the main article.--Verno 16:52, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are a few locations that appear in both Fallout 1 and 2, as well as ones that were to appear in Van Buren and now are appearing in New Vegas. Ausir(talk) 22:34, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's what I would like to see:
 * A standard approach to maps. I personally would prefer a nice screenshot of the locale in the infobox and a larger worldview map, centered on the location in question, with map-markers for some nearby landmarks for reference. The larger map could appear in its own titled section - sized appropriately for our new fixed width. It would be good if we came up with a list of such landmarks, too, for standard inclusion - because just including all map-markers leads to a confusing and cluttered map.
 * A standardized table for loot. I do think expanding our notable loot policy would be good. We could also include a listing for extraordinarily large deposits of otherwise non-noteworthy items. It wouldn't be bad, either, to include listings for what I'll refer to as "notable collectibles:" teddy bears and garden gnomes, for instance.
 * Okay, take a look at User:Gothemasticator/Sandbox_1. If I have time later today, I'll try to put a proper loot table together. But, you can see an approach to maps, etc.--Gothemasticator 07:51, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice Goth! I think location pages should look exactly like that, of course with the loot tables. ;) Ghouly89 (Talk) 08:47, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the effort, Goth. I've been intending to add my own suggestions for a while now, but unfortunately I haven't found the time yet - maybe in the next few days. Just wanted to let you know that your suggestions have not gone unnoticed :) -- Porter21 (talk) 21:49, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, a (very crude) first version of what I had in mind can be found at /sample. I've slimmed down the original Evergreen Mills article for simplicity's sake; just in case you were wondering where the missing sections went.
 * The basic idea was to standardize info people usually find hard to describe, and at the same time move the section maps to the corresponding section. I'm planning on creating a template (surprise!) for the standard info (enemies, workbenches etc) and another one which would allow us to place various markers/text in different colors directly on the section map (similar to Wikipedia's Template:Location map many, just customized/simplified for what we need). All the things list in small print would then be marked on the section map; the legend for those markers would be integrated in the details listing (I've tried to indicate how that'd look with the green "A" in the sample's listing). I guess it'd be good to settle on standard colors (e.g. green for notable loot, white for exits etc) eventually, but that's not pressing right now.
 * Now unto the things which I've left out for now:
 * One of those is the map marker image; maybe we should simply drop these and add "world map coordinates" to the infobox with a link to Fallout 3 map or something similar. Still pondering that one. I'd like to avoid people having to scroll past maps to get to the actual info though, and I'd rather not have multiple images in the infobox, if only so we don't get a lot of whitespace.
 * I also wasn't sure whether the "notable loot" info should be repeated in the "loot" section, given that the notable loot for each section would be listed (and marked on the map) in the corresponding "layout" sub-section.
 * The generic loot could be divided into multiple tables by types (armor/weapons, medical supplies, quest items, crafting components etc); there's bound to be some overlap though (e.g. sensor modules are both components and quest items), so not sure about that. I think it'd be a good idea to have the table(s) collapsible though; it could get pretty sizable on certain pages I guess.
 * I've chosen a "standard" location for the sample. Settlement pages will naturally need some modifications, but I figured it'd be easiest to start with the most common location type. Feedback welcome :) -- Porter21 (talk) 14:38, July 18, 2010 (UTC)