Forum:Is Joshua Graham Jewish, not Mormon?

Okay, so, yes, it is based in Utah, but that's the only way he is associated with Mormons. The reason I think he might be Jewish is because: He first refers to you as a 'gentile', the Jewish word for a non-Jewish person; he also refers to a lot of the Jewish bible; and, he refuses to leave his home (Zion) and wants the other people to leave, like modern day Jewish people with Israel. The land that they currently live in is called Zion Valley, which most Jewish people who want to keep Israel as their homeland are called Zionists. Just my thoughts.


 * That is a very well thought out theory, but I am fairly sure that he is a Mormon. Pretty much everybody in that DLC are mormons, anyway. Yes Man default.png 04:14, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

Well that's a good theory, but Daniel also calls you a gentile I believe. I remember thinking the exact same thing about Daniel, but he is a confirmed morman (We know for sure he's not Jewish because the player confront him about the Sorrows confusing God with the survivalist, Jesus and Mary with the son and wife). However complete confirmation coud come from anyone with knowledge of Morman beliefs, perhaps they use gentiles as a word for people of other faithes XxSick DemonxX 05:45, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

Its possibly writer mess ups (which are rare for obsidian). As a mormon myself I can tell you 2 things:

1. We do not use the cross on the cover of our prints of the bible

2. We never refer to anyone as "Gentiles". We refer to non members as "Non Members" internally but rarely to their faces (Because that is a bit alienating).

New Canaan (well through original Fallout Lore) and the Heavy missionary use are us, and the Colt 1911 was made by a mormon (John Moses Browning, who also made the M2 .50 MG. See, we can be bad-ass too.)

Also, while we use the Book of Mormon more, we do use both testaments of the bible. The old testament is a version of the Jewish bible. We also believe that a New Israel will be built on the United states (yes that sounds strange... but thats what we believe), and tie ourselves a lot with Jews (though they don't like us very much :( ...)

Again, its probably a bit of additions/mistakes by the writers who otherwise did a good job.

5t3v0 08:52, August 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * When it comes to the bible part I think that many of the bibles around wouldn't have survived, neither would all of the Book of Mormon, so it would only make sense to take what you can get and use the Christian bible if you cannot get hold of the Book of Mormon, right? And the jewish holy texts are called the Tora scrolls. Hugs Scar: "Say 'ello to my little friend!" 11:14, August 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * well I know that theory about the Lack of LDS printed bibles, just needed to add something to my comment to flesh it out, though since we hold the Book of mormon as a keystone theoretically we would be working on getting reprints of it as one of the first things we would do in the event of a nuclear war once everyone is settled and alive.


 * And yes, I know the Jewish use different Holy Texts but I meant the old testament in the bible which Jews Accept, not necessarily the Torah if it is completely different form the Old testament. Despite living in a predominantly Jewish area here in Sydney, Australia, I am not too familiar with all their beliefs, if I sound a little un-knowledgeable. Sorry for any offence I may have caused. 5t3v0 11:27, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

Nuclear war tends to screw with religious beliefs, as does, say, burning the hub of a particular cult and killing many believers, including the higher clergy. I guess Joshua and Daniel simply like the term and chose to adopt it. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 14:53, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

Well because Joshua was in the legion and he got "out of it" he must call every non-Mormon a gentile because he was never told to call them different. (That lunchbox997 dude 16:36, August 8, 2011 (UTC))

Hmmm... I've been reading a book on Orrin Porter rockwell (Joseph smith and Brigham young's bodyguard, as well as notorious killer despite only killing 12 people who were mostly outlaws or killers themselves... but I digress) made a lot of references to Gentiles. It could be american mormon terminology that didn't make it here in Australia, or Early church terminology. Most likely the latter as we probably would have stopped calling others that to stop potentially alienating non members. 5t3v0 03:59, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

The above poster has it right. In its early history the LDS Church used the term "Gentile" in much the same way Jewish people do and for the same reason, as a way to define themselves against their persecutors. The term went largely out of use in the 20th century but can still be seen in writings form that early time period. Mormons also believe in the concept of Zion, a holy land set up as a land for God's holy people. Mormons believe in Christ's Second Coming He will set up, for lack of a better term two world capitals, one in Jerusalem and one in America in the City of Zion that they (Mormons) will build. As for Rockwell its funny that he has become famous for his killings, especially since all the ones I have ever seen confirmed (and thus can be determined to not be legend) were when he was a US Marshal administering frontier justice. As a side note Graham is called the "Destroying Angel" which is a term actually used originally for Rockwell himself. -Pierzstyx, Aug. 18, 2011