Forum:Who is the most just faction in NV?

I still think that the NCR is the only thing that can actually bring order to the whole wasteland again, but they have some big flaws. What do you think? ---MerchantofDeath 03:53, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

Well here are my opinions:

Caesars Legion: They'll go down the shitter as soon as Caesar dies. There is no qualified person in the legion to replace him.

House: He can't judge properly since he seems a little bit distant up there. The post-apocalypse cannot be ruled by a pre-war mummy who never set foot in the wasteland.

Independent: The Courier and Yes Man can easily replace House with minimal casualties. The independent ending leaves very much room for interpretation though.

NCR: The NCR can bring order and save caravan routes etc, but they are spread so horribly thin all over the wasteland. With Tandi gone the NCR has reverted to a bad pre-war government and for some reason they want to occupy Hoover Dam and the strip, even if they could still get the benefits by making contracts with House/Independent Vegas, without having to spread their troops all over the place. They have to fix some things before wanting to control such a big territory again.

Well I could write a few more paragraphs..

Rootmars 04:14, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

Well, on a lighter note, I think the NCR could probably still succede. It's kind of like the U.S. government trying to take the Wild West; except this Wild West is a product of a nuclear armaggedon.

--MerchantofDeath 05:41, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Do remember that it was the pre-War US government that brought the nuclear apocalypse upon America. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 07:37, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

Do you remember that the U.S. army was closing in on Beijing, and the Chinese launched their nukes? --MerchantofDeath 17:23, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

Actually.... Its not known who started with the nuclear assault.... so... House FTW?

After Caeser dies, Lanius will take over, then Lucius, then possibly Vulpes, so the Leigon should last a few more generations before falling apart and even then the following Caesers should choose and groom apprioate successors.

That's why you kill every important Legion fuck so that the Legion crumbles by the end of the game. I'd say BOS is the most just faction in NV. Wont go into details86.164.85.100 18:05, January 17, 2011 (UTC) Sec 19

I don't like NCR because they are the weakest faction. They hate me. Now I'm working for Mr.House, The Legion and for BoS. First I'll do Mr.House's quests and them I will kill him because The Legion is asking me to do that, but they also want me to destroy BoS Hidden Bunker(?)... I don´t know if I stay with The Legion or with BoS... Er, I don't think their the most just faction...... ---MerchantofDeath 21:50, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

IMO the most JUST faction would have to be the Followers of the Apocolypse. They have absolutely no chance of winning a war, but they are Fallout's version of the Peace Corps.Z3roknowledge 00:28, January 18, 2011 (UTC)

I think the enclave is the most just even know they only play a small role in NV and there mothods in the past may be seen as unjust there idea was just and that is to return civilisation back to the way it was before the war

I think that’s part of the dilemma of this game, no faction is really just.

As far as the NCR, the name stands for new California republic, what the hell are they even doing in Nevada? Or better yet what right do they have trying to take over it?

As far as the legion, well they’re just a bunch of immoral scum no better than the fiends if you ask me. All they care about it conquering everything they come across, enslaving people they feel are inferior to them and pushing their will onto everyone they meet.

As far as the independent/Yes Man outcome, if you recall the ending he says hes going off line because he found a way to integrate himself and become more assertive or whatever (don’t remember the exact words) but that lead me to believe he was basically going to take over where House left off, quite possibly with an even worse outcome.

House, for all his faults, at least his only interests are New Vegas. After all it was HIS efforts that kept it from getting the crap bombed out of it during the war. It was HIS efforts that brought the three families together and stopped their warring amongst themselves. New Vegas is rightfully his to run. Who the hell are the NCR to just march in and take it? He was diplomatic enough to strike a truce with the NCR and in return they want him killed.

The programmed endings not withstanding, I think in the long run House would be a far better choice for the area, I believe in the long run he would eventually branch his control out beyond the Strip and with someone like the courier being his moral compass he would eventually do right by the area. ReapTheChaos 23:34, January 18, 2011 (UTC)

Eh, I don't think that House is just. He seems to have his head in the clouds. He thinks that he knows what is right for New Vegas in the whole; and he ends up making people suffer. Also, it's technically not his right to own anything, since the people are the only things that hold him in power. That, and an army of Securitrons :P. --MerchantofDeath 02:19, January 19, 2011 (UTC)

What about the followers? They stand for the right, and have been through the hundreds years of radiation. They properly arm themselves for self-defense, and help all that are in need. They are well educated and simply in need of supplies the NCR isn't willing to give up. If the NCR and the followers worked together, then they would be the most just. BasquePenguin 00:35, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

He may not be the most "Just", but House is the most Honest. He tells you exactly what he's going to do, doesn't hide it in feel-good or holier-than-though retoric, just pure honesty and greed. However the most "just" of the big 3 would have to be the NCR, for all their faults, they do want to create a "modern" accountable government with rule of law, as opposed to the others who want to create a system of rule by law, and liberty and justice for all. Agent c 03:08, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

I would say that the Followers are the most just. The NCR is just interested in conquering no matter the cost. The Legion is pure evil (whether that's because of the game's lack of balance, which it probably is, or by design, I don't know). and Mr. House is consumed by greed. Ranger Sarina 14:42, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I'd definitely agree that the Followers are the most morally well-adjusted, as their ideals are selfless and they aim to help the entire human race. However, they are simultaneously the most idealistic bunch. If you choose the Vegas Independence path, the Followers benefit the most -- however, the Powder Gangers run rampant and merchants/Caravans are constantly under threat. I think the Followers would be akin to today's Peace Corps: they're well-meaning, and the most ethical, but have no "bite" to go with their "bark" and cannot spread their ideals to others.

My first impression of House was one of wonder, as he really is a genius: he single-handedly saved Vegas. But I definitely don't think House is "just". Why did he save Vegas? So he can rebuild the human race? No; he has no interest in helping others unless there's some kind of payoff, or "entertainment", in it for him. The areas around the Strip are clear indicators of that. Like someone mentioned above, he has an extraordinary repertoire of medical knowledge, yet keeps it to himself. He has no interest in helping people - he just wants to play god. Even his hobby, collecting snowglobes, is somehow related to his personality: he likes having people at his disposal and under his control. Even though he does assert that he wants to colonize another planet for humans, he will probably pick and choose the people who are "allowed" to move there. At the Gates 22:47, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

There is no truly "just and noble" faction in this game. Every sideable faction has its strengths and weaknesses that, ultimately, appeals to the individual player. The NCR is overstretched, unfocused, and somewhat corrupt, The Legion is a totalitarian dictatorship that hinges on the back of disillusioned slaves and one man, Caesar, who it would crumble without, and Mr. House is a decidedly selfish and narrow-minded autocratic mummy who has never sent foot in the Wasteland he so desires to control. The game isn't as black and white as the "Super Mutants and Enclave = Bad, Brotherhood of Steel = Good" Formula Fallout 3 followed. As you play, you listen to the various opinions of the inhabitants of the Mojave and must choice a faction that you believe would be best for the Wastes.--Black Artist 22:05, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with everything Black Artist said. From my point of view, I'm going to list all the minor factions in their respective function and their impacts on the Mojave Wasteland.
 * Old school: The Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel are both unjust but too weak to control the Mojave anyway.
 * Minor factions: The Kings aren't bad at all, as they keep Freeside in check. The Followers are good people with a cause. The Boomers don't bother anybody, much like the mutants of Jacobstown.
 * Criminals: The Great Khans are just drug dealers. Powder Gangers are robbers. Fiends are evil fucks.
 * Families: Provided the player completes each of the family's quests in the right manner, the families remain neutral and do nothing but make money.

As for the main factions:
 * New Vegas: Mr. House may be the right choice for a healthy New Vegas, but under his control everything outside its walls is surely doomed. With Yes Man and the Courier, the Mojave could prosper.
 * Mojave Wasteland:The NCR is very territorial, but their influence on the Mojave is positive at least; the people could have a government. The Caesar's Legion, on the other hand, conquers and enslaves without mercy and offers only a dictatorship; the people would have no say.

Of the minor factions, I made arrangements so all of the "good" ones (Brotherhood, Enclave, Kings, Followers, Boomers, Mutants, and the Families) could live in peace. I tried to get rid of as many bad ones (Great Khans, Powder Gangers, Fiends) as possible. As for the major factions, I think Yes Man is more just than Mr. House and the NCR is more just than the Legion. For the most just faction overall, I'd say it's the Followers of the Apocalypse. Their mission is to help the wastes. For the most just faction which is actually capable of taking over the Strip and the rest of the Mojave, I'd say it's a tie between an Independent Vegas and the NCR. -- CoD addict (talk) - 23:12, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm... I don't think the Followers are in a position to lead; they are neither large enough to regulate or even have some hold of the huge Mojave, nor do they have the manpower to protect its people. But I do agree that they are the most just faction overall. I think the point of the game was intentionally make the pros and cons of each faction apparent to you.--Black Artist 00:42, February 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * The problem with the Followers is they are over the head idealistics. Not that being idealistic is a bad thing, but sometimes it blinds you for opportunities and the real source of some problems. Take the Garret brothers for example, Julia Farkas paints them like the devil in person who are responsible for most of the problems in Freeside, but actually they are just selfish persons who run a business. Sure, they try to take every business advantage and gain as much of money is possible, but they actually are a little concerned about what happens in Freeside. James Garret even tells why will help the Followers, since the amount of drugs running rampant will generate a lot of junkies and this will hurt Freeside in the end. Sure, he is concerned with his pocket, but is willing to help for the benefit of all people. And this make them "justs"? I don't think so. Brfritos 03:08, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

The thing I like about this game is, the Courier is all powerful and decides what's just and what's unjust. (P3dantic) 86.133.52.220 00:42, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

There's this passage I got memorized. Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you." I been saying that shit for years. And if you heard it, that meant your ass. I never gave much thought to what it meant. I just thought it was some cold-blooded shit to say to a motherfucker before I popped a cap in his ass. But I saw some shit this mornin' made me think twice. See, now I'm thinking, maybe it means you're the evil man, and I'm the righteous man, and Mr. 9 millimeter here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or, it could mean you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. I'd like that. But that shit ain't the truth. The truth is, you're the weak, and I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd. Samuel L. Jackson should be in new vegas...

SergeantDornan:^Okay.....So while you guys make great points, the question was who is the most JUST faction, not which one is in the best position to lead. Taking the question at face value, I would answer the Followers of the Apocalypse.Now, they will NEVER be able to lead, unless they can get some more members, firepower, and support from other people. That said, they ARE the most just; they aren't interested in themselves, but in helping the wasteland be a better place to live, and safer.

Someone listed the Enclave as Just. I about crapped myself when they said that. What is just about the Enclave? They are out for themselves, their own interests. The Brotherhood is more just then they are, which isn't saying much. While I do Support the BoS mission of preserving and protecting pre-war tech, let's face it--they are similar to the Enclave in that they too, look out for themselves, caring little about the rest of the wasteland. They DO keep harmful tech out of the hands of raiders, fiends, etc. but as Veronica tells us, they are only interested in helping humanity in a VERY indirect way; scavenging old tech that could be a real pain in the ass in the wrong hands.

The NCR is just too, but they are not what they once where under Tandi's ruling. She was the NCR's "moral compass" if you will, and without her, they are getting very Enclavish in their motives. They at least try, though, and seem to be genuinely interested in restoring civilization,unlike the Enclave who want to rule with an iron fist, killing anyone who isn't a "pure" human. Still, they are going down the path of corruption, and it seems there is no stoping it.

Followers are the most Just - thats the answer to the post. But what should happen is the NCR give up making political decisions and just become the military for the Followers who should lead. Just because someone cares doesnt mean theyre weak. Hell, my character is very caring and has kicked but all over NV.Kaldhore 06:51, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not saying I believe the Followers to be weak because they are caring. I do believe they are weak, but only in that they lack any good way to defend themselves. They are protected by hired mercs, they lack supplies and they just don't have what is neccessary to lead a new civilization. It's nothing against them, I like the faction, I'm just pointing out what I see. --SergeantDornan 07:19, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

The problem with the answer to this question is really this: None of the factions that are in a position (have the firepower, manpower and willpower) to lead anything are really "just." Each one of them is self-motivated and self-interested in some way.

NCR doesn't care about New Vegas at all. What they're interested in is what they can get out of it, in the form of tax revenue and such. They've also realized that the only way to control Hoover Dam, and thus be able to provide sufficient power to the rest of the NCR is to control Vegas. Whoever controls Vegas has the strongpoint they need to control EVERYTHING of value in the area, and if it's not NCR then they have no further interest in the Mohave. Sure, they can probably provide some things of value (schooling, medicine, security) but in the end everybody who benefits from those things lives under the thumb of NCR.

The only thing that Ceasar's Legion is interested in as far as New Vegas is concerned is the power and prestige that controlling the main settlement in the Mohave provides. They don't care about the city, or it's people at all. It's just a trophy, intended to be something to rub in NCR's face. Add this to the fact that The Legion seems to be nothing more than a house of cards built around all of the WORST traits of Ancient Rome, as though it's entire government was formed as some kind of crazy social experiment around an Encyclopedia Brittanica entry. It's not even a particularly well built house of cards, since it'll likely fall apart if certain people (namely Ceasar, Lanius, Lucius and Vulpes Inculcata) are removed. Basically, the only people who have the strength of character to hold it together.

House is an egotistical megalomaniac. Plain and simple. Just read the self written "obituary" that appears in your pip-boy after you off him during the Wild Card quest line. His interest in New Vegas is purely narciscistic.... he wants New Vegas to serve as a populated monument to his own awesomeness. House does not care about the rest of the wasteland at all.

So all things considered the Followers are the most just but dont have much chance at restoring the world because they lack the finances... The best shot the wastes have is if the NCR is taken control of by someone who can point its "moral compass" as you people put it in the right way...

But consider this: While the Follower might seem weak there is a old proverb "Give a man a fish you and feed him for a day, teach a man how to fish and you feed him for eternity" That what the Followers are doing. Sure they wont kill the Fiends but they will eventually fix up Freeside to a point where they will themselves be able to fight off the Fiends... Or atleast thats what they should/seem to be doing...

84.50.59.124 16:33, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

Independent Zombieninjadavidbowie 22:43, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

"As far as the NCR, the name stands for new California republic, what the hell are they even doing in Nevada? Or better yet what right do they have trying to take over it?"

The New California Republic (NCR) is a democratic federation in California with holdings in Nevada, Oregon and Baja. The Republic is dedicated to restoring order and progress in the Wasteland, as well as old world values such as democracy, liberty and the rule of law. Its capital city is Shady Sands.

With a population of over 700,000 citizens (2241 census), a powerful economy and the largest standing army in the wastes, the NCR is arguably the largest and most powerful human faction in the post-nuclear United States. It consists of five states - Shady Sands, Los Angeles, Maxson, The Hub, and Dayglow and a number of territories under its influence or control, such as holdings in the Mojave Wasteland and Baja.

I would just like to point out that the Followers are in no position to lead. If they were to take control, the Mojave would go back to its previous state in no time at all. They're fit to provide aid, not lead. -- CoD addict (talk) - 22:07, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

personally i believe that Caesar is the best hope for the Mojave and new Vegas simply because he has seen the NCR from the inside he was one of them! if you talk to him after you destroy the army under the fort he tells you his vision of the Mojave and where he came from turns out he was born in the NCR and from an early age was thought the values that the NCR were trying to teach. Ceasar will make New Vegas better then it has ever been he tells you he wants it to be his Rome and that he based his Legion on what he found written in pre-war books. NCR are corrupt MR.House is greedy yes man was put on auto pilot that leaves Ceaser. NCR are old world values the Legion are ancient world values the ancient world was a lot less destructive when it collapsed. human nature is to build then collapse when the ancient world collapsed we went back to the dark ages when the modern fallout world collapsed BOOM!


 * It's a typical mistake & a massive conceit to assume that when the western Roman Empire finally disolved in 473AD that the rest of the world was plunged into the abyssal and scary dark ages. Utter rubbish. The Eastern Roman empire carried on fairly well for another 1000 years while western Europe languised under the rule of essentially tribals who hadn't got any of the level of sophistication that the early romans had. Just because the romans didn;t have nukes does not mean to say that their collapse [western empire] wasn't catastrophic either. It would have been the equivilant of a nuclear war as learning, peace and order were lost for ages in western europe to be replaced with supersition, ignorance and savagery. Captain Taipan 00:21, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

I say the Legion is the best hope for humanity. If you talk to some of the Legion officers they will tell you the areas they came from were wretched and pathetic.. They are extremely well disciplined, so ranks wont break down and there is much less of a chance for a Revolution to begin within the Legion. They shy away from all the chems that would cause higher crimes, and much like the BoS they wont shy away from any Technology that would advance them in Combat.. not saying they are out looking for plasma rifles or anything, but they do want to continue with some Basic effective technology such as mines, Artillery Cannons, Advanced Rifles/Pistols and Machine guns. When Ceasar dies I'm sure he will most deffinetly write into law of who is to succeed him, and maybe any order he would want to leave behind. #1 Lanius, #2 Vuples, #3 Lucius etc.. If the BoS would allow outside recruiting like they did in Fallout 3, with the East Cost Brotherhood chapter, I would say the Brotherhood has the best chances to save the Wasteland. They could probably within a few generations and basic total control of the U.S.(including Alaska) Advance Humanity more then before the War.


 * Caesers legion would also fall apart even if they won at Hoover Dam. They offer nothing to humanity but the nightmare life which Thomas Hobbes called "one that would be nasty, brutish and short". Sure they maintain peace but it is through pure fascism that they achieve this. The brutality and murderous nature of Caesers regime has all the hallmarks of the worst traits in human history. It was said that the Nazi's built great roads, had good law & order and made the trains run on time yet no one in their right mind would say that their vision and methods were in humanity's best interests. In regards to the Mojave BoS chapter, well they had their chance to change as evidenced by Veronica's quest line but Elder Macnamarra can't make that final step as Owen Lyons had done in FO3. The West Coast BoS is a faction that has self selected itself for extinction and there is plenty of evidence for this in the game. In fact its one of the subtexts that runs pretty much right through FO:NV. As much as the NCR is a repeat of the Old World mistakes and foibiles, at least they are capable of adapting. Mr House has tunnel vision and while he is a genius and could probably rebuild humanity, it will be a a society based on the failed pre war capitalist model that lead to the great war. Thus I have come up with a new phrase, "Humanity, humanity never changes"

Captain Taipan 00:21, June 23, 2011 (UTC)