Talk:Divergence

Possible edit needed?
"Man portable weapons such as light machine guns were seemingly never developed in the Fallout universe..." - Theres one in New Vegas. 64.4.90.46 20:35, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

LMGs are listed under "big guns". Fallout 1 didn't have any, Fallout 2 had the LSW (based off the L86A1 LMG), Fallout Tactics had the Bren & SAW, and Fallout New Vegas has the LMG. This should probably be changed to "with the development of man-portable gatling guns, LMGs became less commonly used as squad support weapons." 216.65.182.66 17:32, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I second that, makes more sense. --Demon971 04:32, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

POV comments on usefulness of caliber
"Ammunition calibers that in our timeline were considered useless or impractical, such as the .32 caliber and 10mm, are widely used in the Fallout era, while common ammunition in our timeline, such as 9mm Parabellum, .357 Magnum, 7.62x39mm, .45 ACP, etc are rare or nonexistent." This is a POV statement about 10mm and .32 caliber. The 10mm is considered overpowered and bulky, but not useless. Same with the .32 caliber, it's considered weak, but more compact. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. 216.65.182.66 17:35, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Quite right. In fact, .32 caliber was used for a period of time by Europe and later some police forces but was phased out as other calibers and new firearms were developed.  The 10mm (10x25mm AUTO) was also used for a period of time, although brief, by the FBI.  They found it coupled with the Glock weapon system to be an amazingly powerful and accurate handgun/caliber but soon realized that many of their smaller agents (women) had difficulty becoming proficient with the rather large sidearm.  So the FBI had Smith and Wessen redesign the 10mm into something weaker and more managable by all agents and thus the .40 S&W (10x22mm) was born.  The .40 S&W soon become quite popular through it's use in law enforcement and now even some militaries in the world employ small arms that use that caliber.  All of this due to one decision made by a FBI executive.  In the Fallout universe, no doubt the FBI had different hiring policies and stuck with 10mm for a lengthy service (almost a hundred years) which later trickled into the military and civilian circles and became a common place caliber.  Hence why there is no .40 S&W in the Fallout universe (and I hope to God there won't be).  Sadly, the 10mm was appraised by many as a very useful caliber but due to it's larger cartridge and immense power it requires a stronger individual with larger hands to use proficiently.  --Demon971 04:27, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

New games bias?
While I think this article is good overall, the examples seem heavily biased towards Fallout 3 and New Vegas. I understand that the higher quality graphics make some small things stand out in those games, but a lot of the major examples originated in the first two games. A balance between the games would be nice.

Plastic
I'm not sure a lack of plastic is really a divergence. I think plastic is manufactured from oil. Oil scarcity will naturally lead to a reduction in plastic usage. --84.203.104.118 01:30, January 14, 2011 (UTC)

There is plastic in fallout, we've had plastic since the early nineteen hundreds, if not earlier. Power armour, for example, utilizes plastics and ceramics. I shall have to rectify this Aryeonos What!? 19:26, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with the first poster, that Plastic isnt that much of a divergence. It has more to do with a lack of Oil. Timeoin 16:31, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

Divergence timeline
After reading the article it states that the Divergence happened sometime after 1945, would that not now be 1918 since the launch of FNV and the addition of Sunset Sarsaparilla to the universe, which was launched in 1918. ☣Avatar☣ 03:26, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * For all we know, the universe had been seperate the whole time but ran parallel (siamese-twin) for the majority of events. There'd be subtle miniscule differences up until around 1945 where the divergence or tangent began and all the notable deviations in comparable histories.  My belief is that the first nuclear bomb (Trinity) was detonated in both universes at the same time, not only splitting atoms but splitting universes as well, creating what we know as Fallout.  This is however my own imaginative way of splicing quantum physics with fiction. :) --Demon971 04:11, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * I generally just accept it to be a fictional brand like in most media, which could have conceivably existed in our universe, thereby not necessarily reflecting the divergence of the timelines. --GaussRifle 20:18, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Nuclear Missiles
I don't think it is entirely correct to think that ICBMs and other long range nuclear payload missiles weren't developed to a large extent. For one, orbital bombardment satellites seemed to be in moderate development by the time of the great war, there are nuclear launch silos - without missiles, but that doesn't mean the weren't launched. In fallout 3 there are a number of "Launch Codes", which refer to missiles. In Fallout 1, the West Tek building was directly hit, indicating a targeted strike. In Fallout tactics you use a nuclear warhead to open a vault door. In New vegas the Lost Hills bunkers have large amounts of ECMs to prevent detection from missiles and satellites that would guide them. I believe that the large amounts of bombs would be deployed for a sort of "Nuclear Carpet Bombing", but the missiles would be used for targeted strikes against key targets and bunkers. Your thoughts? Aryeonos What!? 19:58, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

Exactly correct, Aryeonos! I think the Nuclear weapons section is greatly flawed. No doubt there was at least an equal amount of silo and satelite launched ICBMs to warplane dropped bombs. New Vegas is the best example, as it's mentioned that 77 nukes were launched at the city. New Vegas would be a low priority target, so it would be reasonable to imagine at least double or more nukes were launched/dropped on the larger cities. Since the pre-war world of Fallout was still stuck in the Nuclear Age for about a century past our own Nuclear Age, it's even more conceivable that they had even more methods (though some may seem archaic to us) of delivering nuclear warheads. The "Fatman" Infantry Nuclear Mortar that launches "Mini-Nuke" low yield nuclear bombs is an example of another of their methods. It was an explored option in our world (though not shoulder mounted and much larger) but was quickly discarded by the military community for more conventional infantry support weaponry. Likewise, many things that were only scrutinized ideas in our time were made reality in the history of Fallout. As such, if so many nuclear weapons (perhaps many hundreds) of many different designs and methods were used on the cities, industrial complexes and military installations of the United States of America, how come there has been relatively minimal damage (in respect to their destructive power)? I believe the best way to explain this is that there were also many nuclear weapon defences. Why haven't we heard much about these? Likely because if there was anything more secretive than the nuclear or energy weapons being developed, it would be their counter-weaponry defences. If an enemy knew how they operated they could find a way to make their weapons bypass those defences. Anyway, I'm kind of rambling on here. I think there needs to be more thought put into this section as it's quite an important detail in relation to the Great War and pre-Great War arms race. --Demon971 03:56, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

Personally, I think the evidence points towards a more obvious answer.

Many times nuclear devices were mentioned, they were 4 megaton, 600 kT, 2 megatonne nuclear payloads. Now, bearing in mind by the '80s Russia developed a 50 megatonne bomb, and count in the longer running warfare, and the idea that "more is more"...

You get what the main difference between the worlds are; more is more. More is more is the basis of the divergence; More robots to do as you want, more weapons, more business, more construction, etc. And you get more nuclear warheads, instead of better. Fallout has an incredibly quick nuclear summer & winter, so it must mean that the nuclear warheads launched were incredibly small, but many of them. There must have had many nuclear warheads firing at targets; I would predict hundreds at major cities (also, I count NV as a major city, but most of it was destroyed, House just protected his casinos.

In our timeline, the USSR made larger bombs and nuclear warheads with the plans to hit each city with just a few, while the USA made mostly sub-2MT warheads, with the intention of hitting each city with a dozen or so. Since the USSR did not become a superpower in the Fallout timeline, and since China lagged behind the USA in nuclear weapon production in our timeline, it's not improbable that in the Fallout timeline the USA continued it's policy of relatively small nuclear warheads in MIRVs and when China jumped in they copied the USA, so they could catch up quickly on "number of nukes".

Orbital Weapons
Under the orbital weapons section, should there be a mention of the "High Water Trousers" missile platform that can be used in Fallout 3? Zac hemker 15:43, May 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe. Йура [[file:YuriKaslov - Sig image.gif|15px|link=User talk:YuriKaslov]] 15:50, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

Physics different or somebody not paying attention?
The article states that the physics of the Falloutverse are different because radiation causes mutations like the giant insects and ghouls, but the game clearly states that these are the result of the FEV virus and it's various mutations. Radiation in the Fallout universe usually just kills you, though radiation treatment technology is advanced because in the pre-war times nuclear power was so prevalent - I imagine every auto mechanic had plenty of Rad-X and Radaway in their toolbox.

Actually, ghouls and insects are created by radiation, Super Mutants are created by the F.E.V virus. Would it be so hard to look at each creatures page for this info before you post stupid comments? Thanks. --Wiseman of the Wastes 22:24, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Imperialism
What about some nations that were colonized by European powers, such as Rhodesia, French West Africa, the Belgian Congo or India? If the divergence was in 1945, then what became of these nations? FPN Reaper 19:36, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

That would be interesting to find out. Unfortunately, it's probably considered too insignificant to answer. --NuclearAnamoly 00:59, September 3, 2011 (UTC)