Talk:Service rifle/Archive 1

MAR
do you think this may be a redesign of the 'Military Assault Rifle' to make it seem less modern? (maybe the MAR is a unique version who knows) Mr Habberdasher 21:44, May 7, 2010 (UTC) I think that this weapon was at least supposed to be based off of the real world AR-10, the primary reason is because it is supposedly a battle rifle in the game, and the AR-15 is not a battle rifle. The AR-10 is a battle rifle, and besides, I doubt the designers of the game would actually base the rifle off an M16 or an AR-15 and then decide that, just because they could, give it a wooden stock. Think about it people, these guys are designing an RPG, so in all likeliness, even though they have features of an FPS in the game, they wouldn't put that much thought into EXACTLY how much the ingame weapon looks like its real world counterpart. They would only put the most familiar features of the real world weapon, for the AR-10 it would be a wooden stock and barrel. So in all likeliness, they wanted this to be an AR-10. Deus Gladiorum 01:13, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is the Chinese Assault Rifle a redesign of the R91 Assault Rifle because the R91's too much like a G3A3? No. Nether is this. Nitty Tok. 21:47, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * well those two rifles are completely different models while this and the MAR are the same model (almost), i admit this was just some speculation and maybe this best suited for the forum Mr Habberdasher 11:47, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * well those two rifles are completely different models while this and the MAR are the same model (almost), i admit this was just some speculation and maybe this best suited for the forum Mr Habberdasher 11:47, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

I think it looks WAAAAAY to close to be a seperate weapon. An AR-10-ish rife, AND AR15/M4 rifle? It seems redundant. They probably redesigned it in the face of the "Too modern" complaints. Either way, this looks MUCH nicer.

Picture
The picture you have for this weapon is incorrect- it shows a weapon that resembles an M60 with wooden grips. This is a new weapon and probably needs a new entry, like "light machine gun".

The picture for this weapon SHOULD be the picture of the outside of the helios one station, that shows NCR troops holding the weapon. Also, I do not think this is an AR-10, as the AR-10 never had a forward assist. This resembles an M16 with wooden furniture.69.183.228.55 17:22, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that the picture looks identical to the old one... Nitty Tok. 17:22, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well now the right picture is there- the picture for the battle rifle when I left this message was the picture for the Light Machine Gun, which has its own entry now. Since then the picture has been changed to the old one and it's correct. I STILL say it's an M16 with wooden furniture- if you zoom in on the gun in the picture you can see that it has a forward assist- the AR-10 did not!71.234.106.119 19:42, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well now the right picture is there- the picture for the battle rifle when I left this message was the picture for the Light Machine Gun, which has its own entry now. Since then the picture has been changed to the old one and it's correct. I STILL say it's an M16 with wooden furniture- if you zoom in on the gun in the picture you can see that it has a forward assist- the AR-10 did not!71.234.106.119 19:42, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

the AR-10 original variant did not have a forward assist, but a later variant of it did along with other small new features. Deus Gladiorum 01:23, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's like the Colt Commando/M16 controversy. Nobody cares. :P Nitty Tok. 01:25, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

I have a concern with this picture. Doesn't the picture look more like the Military Assault Rifle with wooden mods? I'm not trying to be gun expert here, I'm just trying to make sure we don't have to pages for 1 weapon. I mean, look at the front sight and carrying handle. THe mag looks different, but maybe that is a weapon mod too?--With care and happiness,  Supermutantslayer450' ROAR 15:05, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Nah, i don't think this is a modification of the Assault Carbine. Unless there's barrel lenght modifications and external modifications, i just don't see how. Plus, if it is in 7.62x45 mm (which I doubt) you would also need a mod that would require you to upgrade the internal parts. I don't see that happening.

Also, notice how on the original AR-10, there's a charging handle on the top of the upper receiver, similar to one on a FAMAS. This in-game model shows no such charging handle that I can see. I see this simply as a prototype M16, and that the Assault Carbine is just a protoype CAR-15. That's my opinion, really. I could easily be worng though. Jovar1 18:36, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

For the last time the weapon is that of the AR-10! How do I know? Because its the AR-10b which looks exactly like the one in the picture. The AR-10b was a design of the AR-10 but used many features of the AR-15. Also, again, can't say this enough. Think about this logically. AR-10 in real life is a battle rifle, just like this gun in the game is a battle rifle. AR-15 is NOT a battle rifle. Oh, and by the way, does this AR-10b look anything like it does in the game image? Really guys, come on! There is a hell of lot backing this up as the AR-10. Really think about this. Note: Image might be messed up so click on it for the actual view. Edit: My bad, just realized its actually called the AR-10a2, but its still the same point either way. Also, just to tie this down a bit more. Go here to see my source. This is a really good site, I've used it many times before, and it also can probably help to answer many other gun questions. Screw the gun wiki, this site kicks ass! Deus Gladiorum 02:17, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

AGH! Two guns that look like M16s, but aren't actually modeled after M16s? THERE NEEDS TO BE AN M16 IN THE GAME! Only gun that is halfway decent in MW2. I have grown to love them in any game they could be in, and New Vegas may become my favorite game, so if there could just be an M16.. Or, if there isn't, I could say that this is an M16. Lying to myself isn't so hard...--With care and happiness,  Supermutantslayer450' ROAR 04:10, July 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * You want an M16, because you like it in COD... I assume you think the real thing can only Burst fire as well. - RASICTalk 04:39, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * "AGH! Two guns that look like M16s, but aren't actually modeled after M16s? THERE NEEDS TO BE AN M16 IN THE GAME! Only gun that is halfway decent in MW2."
 * This is Fallout, set in a retro-futuristic wastelad after a fictional World war three, the worst case scenario of a 1950s "World of Tomorrow". All the small arms are meant to look distinctly 1950s as are all the robots and gizmos.
 * This is NOT a 'tactical' game set in an alternate dreamworld where the only m16s available are A2s and men are made mostly of kevlar, blood and magic, capable of regenarating from fatal wounds in mere seconds. Yourr logic for including an M16 in Fallout three allows me to say "I hope there's an F22 Raptor in TES V, that was the only decent plane in HAWX!"...




 * The gun does look very AR10, from the wooden stock to the 20 round 'short' magazine to the (if you look) lack of M16 style rear sights.


 * -Unregistered

maybe the should repalce the military assult rilfe with the origanal m14


 * Hmm, anyone who thinks that this is an AR-10 ever thought that it might just be an M16 with wooden furniture to make it look more retro in appearance? naturally, it wouldn't have high-tech polymers and plastics all over it, since those types of construction materials were not all that common in the 1950s, and the Divergence page says that plastics would not be common place in this era. Seems to me that this gun is based off the XM16E1, with wooden furniture that matches the color of the original AR-10 (since the AR-10 also had a aluminum "Sullaloy" barrel and plastic composite stock that LOOKED LIKE wood). And the magazine looks very similar to the 20-round magazines that were used before the STANAG magazines were introduced. Which also reminds me that the original AR-10.


 * And just to the Unregistered user above, even though I didn't write the comment about the M16 and MW2, I do agree that that game is the reason I really got into guns. And no, I know that the M16A4 can be 3 round burst OR fully automatic, and that the M16A1 and A3 is fully automatic. This has absolutely no relevance to my argument though, just wanted to say that for some reason... meh =P

The  Jovar  22:56, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * M16A4 series rifles have a safe-semi-burst trigger group; they don't have a "maximum destruction" setting. -- User:Griever0311


 * And I'm back. Yes I considered the thought, after all FO3 had a G3 and AK chambered in 5.56mm, it wouldn't at all surprise me it what we had here was basically the bastard child of an M16 and an AR-10 (which is practically gun inbreeding... eugh). I stand by the lack of M16A2 rear sights though. It's an M16-like weapon, not an M16 (thankfully. They'd be such atmosphere breakers). Although, we have missed out one possibility: That's a FO1/2 Ak112 chambered in 5mm... I mean the square foregrip looks familiar and the rest of the gun was rather bland and pixelly. Yes, it does look like a 20 round 'Vietnam' stick mag, so who knows. As for MW 2 getting you ito guns, it's time to spread your wings and fly, cast off MW2's ridiculously effective UMP45 and Mp5, forget the supposed awesomeness of the Magpul Masada/ACR. Time to enter the real world where a single bullet kills and pulling that trigger is something to be avoided...


 * -Unregistered

Lol i always complain how severely overpowered those two guns are! I haven't played that game in 3 months. But yeah, considering the AK112 in 5mm existed, this gun could be ANYTHING. The  Jovar  23:34, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

I don't like the M16 only because it was in MW2. It is my favorite gun in that, yes. But it was also my favorite gun in Left 4 Dead, and those are two of my favorite games. Do I want it simply because it was in these games? No. The design is cool, and it would look awesome on my character. Now, is my preference influenced by the other games? Somewhat. The M16 served me well in the other games. There's nothing wrong with wanting a gun that appeared in another game to be in a new one.--With care and happiness,  Supermutantslayer450' YOU. LOSE. 01:59, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Unregistered? Are you seriously saying all that shit about MW2, and then assuming the that sorta thing would be any different in Fallout? Idiot.--With care and happiness,  Supermutantslayer450' YOU. LOSE. 23:58, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Because Fallout:New Vegas will make every single exact mistake MW2 made and no others... New Vegas will have different mistakes. But I don't mind because I can fix them with the GECK! Where's the ability for that in MW2? Seriously. Yes, it will be different. Still Flawed but flawed dfferently. Have a nice day and enjoy being legshot killed by UMP45s

Back on the topic of the gun, has anything been said about it or as it been seen on the inventory screen in videos like some of the the other weapons?-Unregistered.

Hmm... I've literally looked at ALL the previews for a Pip-boy name, or even as a target in VATS. Nothing at all, as of now. So i guess for now we have to wait until it comes out. The  Jovar  03:59, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

That's fair enough. Wouldn't want to ruin all the surprises anyway, would we? -Unregistered

For what it's worth, looking at the picture, my thought was that the NCR must have more scavenged parts (receivers and barrels, mostly) than they have intact rifles to go around, and so they made up the difference (in order to put more guns in the hands of line troops) with newly-carved wood parts. It's a rather elegant and typically post-apoc jury rig by what passes for the munitions (and cabinet-making) industry in the NCR. --StClair 05:01, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Changed name
Here's the link to the Bethesda thread where Sawyer confirms the true name of the Battle rifle; the Service rifle: --Volundarkvioa 19:10, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, he says the true name is "Service Rifle". Capitalized because it's a video game. >:( Nitty Tok. 19:11, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * D: I am sorry for failing you, Lord Nitty. -bows head in shame- --Volundarkvioa 19:34, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Worry not; when Porter and Ausir mysteriously disappear over the Atlantic, and the Vault is shifted around to my control, I'll have my revenge.... Nitty Tok. 19:45, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

So, is speculation that it is in 5.56 allowed to be edited in? Sawyer made a point of saying that it's not called the "Battle Rifle" because it isn't a large enough caliber to be considered a battle rifle. That means it's an intermediate caliber like 5.56mm. I mean, what else could it be? (This also confirms it's not an AR-10, btw.)--68.118.203.7 03:22, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Speculation is never allowed. It might be 5mm, like the old AK-112 of yore. Nitty Tok. 03:47, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Seeing as how the Assault Carbine turned out to be in 5mm, I suppose your restraint was wise in this instance.--Resplendant Securitron 02:43, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Characteristics
I'm going to add something to the characteristics for now because we all know it's a semi automatic battle rifle from the best buy live stream.--Roflguy227 23:31, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

Base ID
... is 000E9C3B. 98.87.181.26 03:50, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

Why Is This Locked?
I was going to add the weapon's stats. But someone locked it?

--DJ Idol 05:48, October 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was going to add a better picture, with transparency, Please Un-Lock this.

Coco911231 20:53, October 23, 2010 (UTC)

Random?
I found the soldier in my current game (normal mode, not hardcore, no wacky wasteland trait) but the weapon he had was a single shotgun. Is there another I'm missing or is it possible it changes? I already had a service rifle at the time (pickpocketted an NCR soldier while he slept) but I don't think it should affect it...

Anyway I thought I would ask if any of you have had it show up as something else or if I'm just lucky? Or to guide me to the correct place but it's the NCR guy by the two ammo boxes in there near the bones about where the coyotes are placed around, west of Primm. --Syrant 11:09, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know exactly what stats the the G.E.C.K. spits out, but if there's only one attack per second, and there's 20 damage per attack, then the damage per second should be 20, not 46, right? --174.101.183.33 23:28, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

This rifle is awesome.
Maybe it's the fact that it's so common and its ammo is so common and cheap, but not only has my rifle never broken on me, but I'm starting to get into level 20 and above, and it still works like a charm. I've killed almost all of my enemies with this rifle, including Caesar, Aurelius, the Legate, and most of the lesser baddies. Anyone else think this rifle is amazing? 17:08, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

At level 20? I had an anti-materiel rifle by level 20. No, this gun is not awesome, it has no scope, nor any way to obtain a scope. Even the varmint rifle out performs it in early levels, providing it has a scope. Scopes ftw. --Vault-BA 19:35, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Level 26 for me, and still loving it. AM rifles are way too hard to find, sniper rifles are too fragile, and LMGs are both too inaccurate and too fragile. And scopes are awful. All it does is constrict the peripheral vision. Then again, I'm the kind of guy who doesn't mount optics on my rifles. As the saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 19:38, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Unless you are playing on Very Easy, and have Boone following you, you are obviously talking out your ass --Vault-BA 19:55, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or maybe I'm just a really good FPS player. I'm playing on hardcore mode (I'm not sure if that affects combat/other difficulty settings, which I haven't even touched), and the only time I've died thus far was either because I made some stupid move (IE falling off a cliff) or I got jumped and my character is too sluggish to turn around in time. 20:00, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

I absolutely wanted this weapon when I first saw it in the screenshots and once I got it... I immediately threw it away. Low DAM, LOW DPS, awful firing rate especially with Trigger Discipline on, mediocre mods. I would dare to say that Varmint is better due to the critical bonus and with better criticals/sneak playstyle. Only somewhat positive thing about it is it's durability and Jury Rigging to repair better weapons.--Johnyjon 23:13, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

I support JohnnyBoy here, I was so crazy about that gun ever since i saw it on the wiki. My hopes had been for an AR-10, but then with sawyer saying it was of a lesser caliber than a battle rifle, my heart dropped slightly, because it was an AR-15. Then after i got the game, i search desperately. In boulder city, up in that one building, there's the ranger note and trooper hat, and a service rifle. Then i shot a deathclaw 20 times in the head with AP rounds and still got ripped apart in 2 swipes. Bye bye service rifle, hello m1 garand. ;) X7h3xR34p3r 01:46, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Level 23, I actually really like this weapon. While I will grant it's the absolute weakest weapon I own, (Plasma Rifles, laser rifles, Sniper Rifle, etc. All fully moded are WAY Better in damage) and in comparison it's a crappy weapon for damage. That said, it is extremely hard to get it to fully break, it's ammo is the easiest ammo ever to aquire, and it's extremely reliable. I carry a Service Rifle with me at all times as a backup weapon, because theres a few times i've resorted to even weaker weapons because all my other weapons had rare ammo and I ran out, or they broke, like the sniper's fragile build. If you dislike this weapon, you clearly hoard all your ammo and evoid combat, or buy stockpiles of ammo at a time. Troy242621 19:25, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

I'd go so far as to say that this is the worst gun in the game, even with mods. Totally worthless and outclassed by every other rifle or any gun in any situation. Should have ben a more powerful gun that becomes available midgame. As it is, it's damage to rate-of-fire ratio is just woeful. I can't understand why th other two mods were cut, because they sound like they might have made this decent weapon for a low level character.86.42.220.26 00:53, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

M16A1
This is obviously an M16A1. Why?

This rifle is produced by the NCR and other post-war manufacturers, probably on a civilian single-fire variant blueprint. It utilized wood for the handguard, buttstock and pistol grip because wood is a much easier material to use than the composite plastics in modern M16s. The reason you will not find a real world answer is because this is the equivalent of a homemade M16.
 * It's the goddamn AR-10 and you know it. AR-10 Stop arguing. - CRIMINAL SCUM 23:56, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

^ NO. AR-10 is 7.62x51 NATO or .308 Winchester. And it isn't a m16A1. That rifle was issued by the military and had selective fire capability. The original Colt AR-15 602 featured a brown stock and handgaurd, and was semi-automatic, iirc. X7h3xR34p3r 00:11, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

Bayonet?
In the gallery picture, the rifle is shown with a bayonet and something sticking off the side of the carrying handle. I've never seen nor heard of either of those mods and would like to know how those got on the weapon. Unused model components, perhaps?

- Insano-Man 12:30, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

I talked to the guy who uploaded it, he says he found it in the game files... I still don't like it... *grumbles* X7h3xR34p3r 01:43, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, he was pulling it out of his ass. X7h3xR34p3r 23:50, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

I checked. It's not defined as an Item Mod entry or even a Misc Item entry in the GECK; there's no corresponding meshes or textures for the purportedly cut mods. They're a complete fabrication. Whose? I don't know, but someone's. -- 00:38, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

Correction: Thanks to fellow admin Tagaziel for pointing out where in the GECK this is defined - as a static world object, of all things. -- 19:47, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was the one who added it in the first place, dudes. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 20:05, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Talked to the guy who uploaded them heh? I can't remember you ever contacting me about them. They are unused models for the unfinshed mods and reside in the statics objects folder (weapons sub folder), the exact same place that all the models reside for all guns with and without mods, both cut and uncut. ☣Avatar☣ 02:27, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

I apologize. I was under the impression that Tagaziel was the member who uploaded them. Atleast change the wording, because they are not usuable mods, and there is no evidence that they were ever intended to be, or could have been used. X7h3xR34p3r 02:44, January 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Except for the fact that they exist in the same place as the models for all the other mods do (in fact the only things that reside in that folder are the weapons and mods models only), have the same GECK ID labeling as all the other mods for the service rifle. For all intent purposes they are mods for the service rifle, the only difference between them and other cut content is that they cant be added with console commands alone and require the GECK to add them. Also if I remember correctly I saw a post in one of Ausirs blogs where Sawyer was asked about them and he explained why they was cut, one being a issue with the iron sights and the other being a issue with mixing melee and guns attacks. ☣Avatar☣ 03:00, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

NCR built?
The weapon doesn't look pre-war. The wood on the Chinese Assault Rifle and other wooded, pre-war weapons in previous games was white, as very old wood eventually turns. The metal was scuffed, dented and faded, etc. This weapon's wood looks recently crafted and the metal is dark and clean, no dents, scratches and such. So I'm guessing that this weapon is supposed to have been built by the NCR rather than the pre-war military, right? 110.174.91.113 05:57, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

I would say so- don't know whether it was designed by NCR engineers or from Pre-War specs but the NCR use it as their standard issue weapon. The Gun Runners are known to make most of their stock in house and they supply the NCR with service rifles, so those at least are made new. In fact, the Gunrunners make a lot of the guns out there. You can't tell the difference between the Gun Runner made guns and Pre-War guns because after a few years in the wasteland it all ends up worn the same way anyways.--Resplendant Securitron 08:45, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

The M199?
03 Dec 2010

I believe the Service Rifle is most likely the M199 rifle mentioned in Fallout 3. It bears semblance to the M16, but in the Fallout world the M199 would actually predate the R91 assault rifle as the country's service rifle. Much like how the M1 and M14 semi-automatics predated the M16 assault rifle.

The M16E1 was designed as a lightweight, percision, automatic rifle. The M199 Service Rifle on the other hand was definitely not designed to be lightweight with it's wood and steel construction (unless that is just how the NCR reproduced the rifle due to lack of knowledge and resource to make more advanced materials), nor given fire selection (other than a conceivable safety function) but it does hold true to the precision factor of the design. It's linear mechanism allows the bolt to travel straight back and hit the buffer spring sending most the recoil directly into your shoulder and return the bolt forward to grab and chamber a round. So the M199/Service Rifle's virtue is in this design. It's unknown if it's gas-operated or short-stroke piston operated, but we can only imagine.

So anyway, the Service Rifle concept is definitely based off the M16/AR15 because it fires the 5.56x45mm cartridge (whereas the AR-10 fired 7.62x51mm NATO) - and the Service Rifle is the most likely candidate for the vaguely mention M199 in Fallout 3.

The Service Rifle is different from the M16 in these ways:


 * - Has a single receiver, M16 has two parts (upper & lower)
 * - Has a cocking handle directly on bolt (like an AK), whereas the M16 has a seperate cocking handle (attached to the gas tube on the bolt carrier) which you pull from the rear of the receiver
 * - Ejection port cover is flipped up, M16 ejection port cover flips down
 * - Made of wood and steel, M16 made of polymer and aluminium
 * - Has a slightly narrower profile than M16

However, everyone, bear in mind that the Fallout universe is a complete divergence from our own. An alternate reality, if you will. So other than a few close resemblances, everything will be different in it's own way. Due to the pre-war American culture remaining rather stagnant for almost a century (or may just have progressed much slower than our own), while technology continue to progress - and technological innovation stuck on that era's (30s-50s) mindset.

-[mailto:demon971e@shaw.ca | Demon971]
 * I don't see what everybody is making such a big fuss about here. The developers have stated that the weapons in the Fallout universe are simply inspired by weapons of the mid-20th century. Since one of those actual weapons was built based on the concept of the other, the Service Rifle is clearly based on both. Who cares? It's not supposed to be either. It's a moot point. 110.174.91.113 16:14, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * This always happens. Some people just get off on arguing about guns. I've learned to never open a talk page on any wiki if it is a talk page for any .50 cal weapon, anything featured in Call of Duty, or anything popularized by Hollywood. They all look like this page or worse. 81.178.134.232 03:57, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Does it really matter? It looks like an AR-10, but it's got a cocking handle on the side. Therefore, it's clearly a rifle that only the makers of FONV know about. <Sarcasm. It's just a weapon that looks like an AR10/M16 cross, and it's not meant to be one specific weapon. It's like if you've ever made up your own weapon; it may look like another real world weapon, but IT IS NOT. Thank you. Danny323 20:51, February 2, 2011 (UTC)