Forum:Why not just combine Barter + Speech?

The Speech and Barter skills seem to not have much use beyond a certian skill check that lets you acheive an item, so I feel like I'm wasting my skill points when I invest in these knowing this.

Why didn't they just make the two skills the same in the first place, they're basically the same, it would do both functions for less the hassle.

Also about Melee and Unarmed, they're basically the same so why not make them the same?

Please tell me what you think, and sorry if you didn't understand. By NCRFirstReconSniper

I can see your point with the Speech/Barter argument. Its definitely questionable when both skills do so little on their own. But you're insane if you think Melee and Unarmed are anything alike. Take someone who is trained exclusively in the use of melee weapons like swords, clubs, etc.. They won't be able to do much without those weapons. --Epsilon616 20:14, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

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Well I understand your point of veiw about the Melee and Unarmed, it would be a little unrealistic. NCRFirstReconSniper 20:46, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Speech is not just a skill for "making people go your way", the skill encompasses everything from subterfuge (i.e. lying, hiding things, seeing through lies) to empathy (recognise emitions and being able to understand how humans work) as well as advanced psychology. Barter on the other hand represents businessmind, which requires a good sense of economy, and how investments work, being able to see how markets change as well being able to spot a good deal. In the specific part of trading does these two skills overlap, when trying to convince someone about buying or selling, but n those cases it's all about how you go about approaching the situation. So no, they cannot be merged into one. Hugs Scar: "Say 'ello to my little friend!" 20:53, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

I totally agree that unarmed and melee weapons should be merged unless major changes are brought to them. First, the unarmed "weapons" can generally summed as so: "Punch with your right hand" that's not some ancient martial arts or intense military style, it's a punch. Second, the differences in handling between a revolver, a minigun and a high precision long range rifle are much greater in my book than the one between punching a guy or swinging a sledgehammer at him and don't tell me you need a lot of training to jam a chainsaw knife into someone. Most perks' benefits in New Vegas already treat Unarmed and Melee Weapon as the same but for some reason they split those perks' skill requirements between the two to force us to build up both. So in future Fallout games they should dramatically expand the variety and style of unarmed weapons and melee weapons, add some way more special moves and techniques and make it so "unarmed" doesn't just mean "right punch, right punch, right punch!" for the majority of the game, or simply merge the two skills because while in real life one might have arguments about their difference, in game, there are precious few when you consider the other combat skills. Dr. Lobotomy 04:56, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Well said Lobo, Scar. What puzzles me is V.A.T.S. Why can you target a arm or leg with a sniper rifle but you can't with a knife ? 99.194.142.109 20:36, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * That is because Bethesda didn't want to cash out to make seperate animations for every kind of stroke with every kind of weapon, so they went the cheap way and choose to keep melee and unarmed strikes to the entire body, which is silly in the extreme. Hugs Scar: "Say 'ello to my little friend!" 20:43, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

I disagree Lobotomy, Unarmed an Melee have some small differences that in the end make huge differences. Just to cite one, a focused unarmed player relies much more on critical hits than melee, wich rely on blunt force, so you build the characters differently (less ST x more ST / more LK x less LK). On top of that the moves you learn to use with unarmed - and can be used with unarmed only - make a huge difference in survivability. The Khan Trick, Ranger Takedown, Legion Assault and Scribe Counter are life savers. The Khan Trick I see bashed all over is much more easier to perform and is better used against creeters, the Ranger Takedown is better against humans (try the Khan Trick against a Deathclaw or Cazador and you will see). Only if you rely in VATS most of the time you don't use them, but then you are missing a great portion of the skill. Melee is the same thing, you can use ALL the special moves outside of VATS and this techinique has an advantage, you don't need 50 points to perform the moves.

I don't like VATS, I will be honest, so I don't use it even when playing with guns. I'm on PC so I don't know if this make a difference on a console, I read sometimes the controls on PC are better for playing outside of VATS, but I don't have a console so I take this with a grain of salt. Also, you don't need to raise both skills at the same time, unless you are focusing in a melee + unarmed build. The melee hacker perk is there for not needing to raise Unarmed to 90 points and taking Slayer. The way you put it seeems the two skills are equal and they are not. Heck, guns and EW share A LOT of perks and they have differences too, just like melee/unarmed. Brfritos 19:49, August 16, 2011 (UTC)