Forum:Do the DLC's take place within the Mojave Wasteland?


 * → moved from User talk:Flower of Pock-Lips and User talk:GhostAvatar

Re: this edit, you "Exit to the Mojave Wasteland" everytime you leave a building, I don't think the UI text is sufficient enough evidence in that regard. The thinking behind adding that to the infobox was that the Sierra Madre Casino and Zion National Park both have Mojave Landmark Limited Edition Snowglobes, and that Chris Avellone's Twitter location considers the Big Empty to be part of the Mojave. --Flower of Pock-Lips 23:32, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Also, what's with italicising all the inline quotations in articles? I don't think it's considered standard practice in English to do that. Also, sometimes things between quote marks might have meanings other than quotations. --Flower of Pock-Lips 23:34, March 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, every time you leave a building it says "Open door to the Mojave Wasteland", you are thinking of caves and such, which say "exit to the Mojave Wastland". The difference in Dead Money is that it states "Travel to the Mojave Wastlenad". As for his Twiter location, that has no relevance to Sierra Madre, only to the Big Empty (and that could be up for debate, since it says Mojave and not Mojave Wasteland). As for the Mojave Landmark Limited Edition Snowglobe, that information comes from the UI as well, so you kinda shot your own arguement in the foot, plus there is nothing that directly states that these 2 additional Snowglobes are Mojave Landmark Limited Edition Snowglobe, especially considering they are not needed to gain the Globe Trotter achievement. So considering no one knows for sure the precise location of Sierra Madre, it is a bit presumptuous to assume it is in the Mojave Wastlenad.
 * As for the use of Italics, read here for usuage, it has nothing to do with using for quotations. User avatar tag.gif Avatar talk.png 00:06, March 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * It's clear, to me at least, that the reference to the Big MT in Mojave in Chris Avellone's Twitter location is meant to place the Big Empty within the Mojave Wasteland (besides, the Mojave Wasteland seems to encompass rougly the same area as the Mojave Desert, which Zion National Park just about comes in). The snowglobes are not needed for the Globe Trotter achievement because they were introduced after the achievement was first put out there with the release of the game, and actually the game does directly state that these are Mojave Landmark Snowglobes - see here.
 * As for the italics, I'm not sure why those words need emphasis tbh, they are scare quotes. --Flower of Pock-Lips 01:04, March 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * Really now, so they are Mojave (Pre-War term) snow globes and not Mojave Wasteland (which considering the Mojave Wasteland didnt exist pre-war) snow globes, means that it plays no part in ascertaining if Sierra Madre is part of the Mojave Wasteland. Especially since it states they are pre-war in the game. But either way you, if you accept them, you have contradicting information from the same source. And as you said "I don't think the UI text is sufficient enough evidence in that regard". So there is no clear defining evidence that Sierra Madre is part of, or located in the Mojave Wasteland. What evidence does exist is contradictory and debatable. And as I said with the Twitters reference, that would only pertain to the Big Empty and not translate over to all other location, it is also a debatable point of contention.
 * And again on the italics, the page you linked to even uses italics for scare quotes on the second line. Italics are used for empasis and we also use them here for any kind of quotation, hence why Quotation uses italics, besides as the page points out "...they may simply serve to alert the reader". Alerting the reader of a word or phrase is simply a definition of emphasis. User avatar tag.gif Avatar talk.png 01:30, March 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * As I said, the Mojave Wasteland seems to correspond roughly with the Mojave Desert (which itself is not clearly defined). I doubt the game developers would name several landmarks to be within the boundaries of the pre-War Mojave Desert (via the snowglobes) and then shuffle those boundaries around, I see no motivation to do so and it would only serve to confuse the player. And I don't see how there are any contradictory sources involved. The UI text in using the gate out of the Sierra Madre is a different matter, because (a) the snowglobes were marketed as "Limited Edition Mojave Landmark Snow Globes", and that is the wording used for them in-universe, whereas the UI text is (obviously) not in-universe, and (b) the UI wording is unclear - it could say "Travel to Mojave Wasteland" because unlike, say, leaving a cave, you are not exiting directly but travelling to the abandoned BoS bunker. Having checked on YouTube, I can also say that the gate is marked as "Gate to Mojave Wasteland", which could be interpreted to mean exactly the opposite. This is what I meant by the UI not being sufficient evidence, especially in the face of an in-universe source like the snowglobes.
 * And not to drag it out, but I think you are missing the point of the italics somewhat. The italics used in the scare quotes article were used because the article was referring to the term "scare quotes" rather than scare quotes in their proper semantic context - it has nothing to do with emphasis. I don't think we should use italics for inline quotations, there is no precedent for it (although obviously you are welcome to suggest it as a guideline on the forum), and I don't like the logic that we should use italics for inline quotations because we use them for quotation - we also indent quotes with that, should, therefore, all quotes be indented? --Flower of Pock-Lips 02:19, March 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, show me in universe evidence other than the UI that refers to the snow globes as "Limited Edition Mojave Landmark Snow Globes". Secondly, your doubts mean nothing, they are you own personal interpretation of real world facts being translated over to the Fallout universe. This is Fallout and things don't always make sense or parallel are own world fully. Just cus you doubt they would move boarder around, does not make it true. Also I would like to see this youtube video that you refer to, because I have loaded the game up and checked the actually wording on the gates myself prior to all this.
 * But you hit the nail on the head with you view of travelling to the Mojave Wasteland, you cant travel to something you are already located in. I could accept travelling to the abandoned BoS bunker, as portrayed in your example, but unfortunately it does not say that.
 * As for the italics, I cant make this any clearer, I refereed to that page as a example of using emphasis of the word scare quotes, it is no different than using emphasis on the word found regardless of it being a scare quote or not. Also I suggest that you make a forum post for not using italics for in-line quotes and emphasis to change the policy. quotation marks the quote indented to make it stand out (for emphasis), but unfortunately that cant be done for in-line, however italics can still be used. But if we want to go by your logic, then I shall remove all quotes from being in-line and use the quotation template for them all. As for precedent of usage, they are used for the titles of works (as per usage from the previous link I posted) which is already used in-line and also as noted above for emphasis in page content as per policy. User avatar tag.gif Avatar talk.png 02:55, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I don't have the time at the moment to carry on this discussion, but I really would like to see a consensus reached on this, so I've moved it to the forums so as to open it up to the community. --Flower of Pock-Lips 19:57, March 3, 2011 (UTC)