Talk:Assassin suit

Story
So what is the story behind this suit? --71.143.151.56 03:39, December 24, 2010 (UTC)MilkmanAssassin

That's a good question. Most likely (and I'm speculating here) someone from either pre-war, trying to assassinate Sinclair, or someone more recent going for the target of Father Elijah. It would stand to reason that he's not a very liked man. So as for the suit, I think it looks more pre-war than new, but you never know.. anyone have any further info, please share.--98.162.251.108 03:28, December 25, 2010 (UTC) No idea on story but perhaps to help with people with low sneak go through the game easier.

Heh, either way, it looks Awesome. One of the best looking armors in the game, hands down. - Darkshadowmark

I think it really really looks like the suit the assassin Karl Ruprecht Kroenen from Hellboy wears, especially if you wear a NCR veteran ranger helmet with it, it could be just a reference, also, yeah it could be like an assassin that Sinclair hired to kill Dean when he found out about his affair with Vera.

**spoilers** Maybe it's the suit that Christine was using when she was hunting Elijah? It would make sense as a Brotherhood, long range scout/assassin she would have top gear. Could be she acquired it in the Big Empty base, and it was taken away when she was collared.Taipanpenguin 23:24, December 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * My gut tells me that this suit may have been created by the devs as a small gift for players who were fans of the Chinese Stealth Suit but didn't like the fact that you couldn't remove the mask (or fans who thought it was nerfed too far in New Vegas.) It's definitely more useful than the Chinese version. ~Anonymous of the Wastes

Updated Code
While Using a modding program, i found the ID code for the suit. At least for my Console. It is 0200E1B7 it let me have the assassin suit, should work for another person


 * It depends on the load order/presence of DLCs, as described here.Hayst81 17:05, June 3, 2011 (UTC)

ref to alpha protocol?
the suit looks similar to one of the stealth suits in AP, could just be a subtle nod


 * I don't think so. It looks similar to a the apparel of a great number of "stealthy" characters over several games. I can actually think of five off the back of my hand. Unless someone finds concrete proof otherwise I don't think this is a reference to anything in particular. ~Anonymous of the Wastes

PICTURE?!?!?!?!?!?
jesus what does it look like?

Not shown on Light Touch Perk Image as stated on page.
Not the armor in the Light Touch perk image. Someone has it listed that it is, but it clearly isn't. The standard Leather armor is on the image, not the assassin suit. The pouches and pauldrons are identical to the Leather armor, removing that note.Ninety9Soulz 00:10, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

assassin suit or leather armor
Its hard to tell without seeing the left arm in the light touch perk icon. Does leather armor have the pouches in the rear of the suit as the assassin suit does? I couldn't find a pic of the rear.

On the back of the belt on the Leather armor there are four pouches, identical to the picture. The two pouches on the right leg are also identical. The pauldron on the right shoulder is the same as well, as well as the arm and hand. The assassin suit on the other hand has three larger pouches on each side. Definitely Leather armor, not the assassin suit, simple mistake though.Ninety9Soulz 13:05, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Image?
Why hasnt anyone uploaded an image of this? I know it sounds whiny but just about everything else has an image uploaded and its been a week since dead money has come out.

-It's what you get when the only users capable of filling out a proper guide to something are console users - in this case Xbox360 users. You'll just have to live with it until either one of them remembers to actually take a picture of  it, or until Dead Money arrives on PC.--Frosty. 04:56, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Or it could be that the vast majority of Xbox360 players don't have a capture card and the only way they could take a picture of it would be taking a picture of their TV, which would yield horrible, blurry, and color distorted pictures. Of course if it makes us feel better we can keep thinking there all lazy bums. Doesn't bother me one bit. :)


 * Oh, look. Another platformist.  What's a platformist, you say?  It's much like being a racist but instead of being prejudiced against other races, you're prejudiced against people who play games on platforms other than your own.174.0.106.101 07:16, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm a proud 360 owner, and I try to contribute, but I'm gonna let others put pictures on, because I don't have a capture card, and I'm not getting one just to put individual pictures on a wiki when someone else could probably take a better pic. TJbrena 16:22, January 4, 2011 (UTC)

Looking for The perfect helmet?
After trying on the rangers helmet, I think it makes a perfect match to go with the armor. Same color scheme so it goes great. Just thought I'd add this in for anyone in "need" of a helmet. --Mat mod 02:03, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

I second your taste of fashion, the red eyes of the ranger helmet really bring out the already present bad ass aura of the suit.--FLaSHBaCK HaSH 01:50, January 19, 2011 (UTC)

Absolutely, this is my go to gear and it looks great. Really loving that armor with the holorifle. Kelevra1 05:26, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

I read this post and I'm like "these guys have no idea what they're talking about. The helmet'd be too bulky and wouldn't look good." Then, I try on the helmet, and it actually looks great. So, thank you.--With care and happiness,  Supermutantslayer450'  YOU. LOSE.  00:51, February 7, 2011 (UTC)

Your welcome, im always looking at different combos--Mat mod 04:54, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

Bug
I encountered a bug with this suit in that the +10 to Sneak remained on my character after I took off the suit (I first noticed when I was leveling up and was wondering my Sneak was 10 points higher than it was supposed to be). As soon as I put the suit back on and took it off again though, my Sneak went back to it's normal number. I'm not sure what conditions caused this, and it hasn't happened since.174.0.106.101 08:57, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

Not best light armor
I use a character that is entirely based on stealth and nothing else and i personally think this armor is overrated. By the time you're the suggested level for this DLC (20+ i think it said)you should either have enough points in sneak to make this unnecessary or have points in something else to allow you to plow through enemies and in both cases the standard sierra madre armor has a DT of 16 (rendering combat armor and metal armor reinforced obsolete as well) and is a better choice and even more so with the sierra madre armor reinforced(again more things becoming useless. this time combat armor mk2) with it's 18 DT. However i will agree that it is one of the better looking armors in the game but i dont play this game to look pretty--Ze5ro1 17:19, January 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well unlike you, a lot of people DO play the game to “look pretty” as you put it. I don’t give a rats ass what the damage threshold is on a particular piece of armor, I wear what I feel looks best and suits my needs.  I also try to use a modicum of reality when I play.  Although as far as the game is concerned it makes no difference, but personally I think a stealth based character sneaking around in a bright yellow set of armor is ridiculous and laughable!  Not to mention that a stealth character shouldn’t need to worry much about DT.  If done properly you should be going unnoticed in most circumstances making DT a mostly moot point.


 * However feel free to play the game any way you see fit, just try not to generalize and say that all light armor is now useless/obsolete based on your personal preference.


 * As for your other point, the +10 to sneak is VERY useful. If you’re a stealth based character and you want a 100 sneak skill then this armor would allow you to save 10 points to add to something else.  Seeing as there are many useful skills in the game I plan each skill point I add based on several factors, one of which is clothing I can use to shave points off yet still get the skill higher if I need it.


 * I played the DLC and to be honest I didn’t find it that hard, I have no clue why they recommend you be at such a high level before you start it. I’m quite sure you could get through it at 10-15 with a little effort. ReapTheChaos 08:53, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

I see your point.I also to state that i started the game at level 30 and double the perks (on 360) which makes this armor useless in my case but not in the case of others obviously. I just personally like to have armor for protection rather than stat boosts. same reason i used vault 34 security armor over the chinese stealth suit (pretty much the vanilla equivalents of these armors)

I must disagree with you on the +10 sneak however. With careful planning and utilizing all of the skill books you can get the majority of your skills to 100 and (in my case at least) to a minimum of 50. unarmed speech and barter are all tied with 50 for me explosives is 80 and survival is 75. The rest are all 100 (-20 to all when i first leave goodsprings but i get the skill books immediately after.) so throughout the game most of the skill raising items serve no purpose. (not even selling. I start with 10000 leather armor so i just sell that) I know that on a regular game this would be useful until you leveled all the way but i start leveled all the way so this is just my point of view.--Ze5ro2 01:59, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Sweet...
I finally found an armor that looks cooler than reinforced Leather. Now I just need to go get the rebreather. Sigh, if only they still had the talon combat helmet from FO3.Zac hemker 17:26, January 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree, it is a nice looking set of armor. Like you, I prefer the reinforced leather based solely on its looks.  However for headgear I wear the 1'st Recon beret.  I think the +5 critical chance and the +1 perception far outweigh the loss of damage threshold.  Plus it looks so damn cool! ReapTheChaos 07:50, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

Turns out the Ranger Helmet is my new favorite to wear with this armor. They look like they were made to go together. The colors match almost perfectly and there is no awkward size mismatch like I see with other armor types. Zac hemker 23:44, January 21, 2011 (UTC)

Cool story bro
"With it's 14 DT and being Light armor it is a much better choice for stealth based players over the Chinese stealth armor although the Chinese stealth armor does increase the time limit of Stealth Boy."

Don't you just love it when people start pulling ideas out of their ass?--Frosty. 06:08, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

I think it's a genuine mistake and this individual somehow confused Lily's perk with the CSA. --Cartman! 20:47, April 11, 2011 (UTC)

Can somebody please get a better picture?
I know this point has already been brought up, but we didn't really resolve anything other than that the fact that it being an X360 exclusive doesn't have much to do with the problem. The current picture is blurry and red (or maybe I should go off my pills for a few days), and makes it hard to see the actual details of the suit. I keep hearing about how cool it looks, but all I can see is a black bodysuit and some red hair. Captain tweed 21:52, January 22, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, now that a picture from the PC version has been added I think it looks bloody awesome. Sleek and deadly. --Frosty. 17:33, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

M.I.?
anyone else notice this looks a hell of a lot like the armor worn by the mobile infantry in Starship Troopers?Icommandoxx 23:04, March 20, 2011 (UTC)icommandoxx

Gender mesh
So as some people have noticed, most clothing/armor is made for male bodies and "ported" to female bodies (unless they have a whole different model), but I think the Assassin's Suit is the exact opposite, made for a female and stretched to fit when on a man. Does anyone else notice this or am I just being weird? --99.127.137.181 23:35, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Repair w/ Combat Armor
Using the Steam version, I cannot repair this suit with Combat Armor. Can anyone confirm/deny? Edit: Also, it might be worth mentioning I've so far only gotten the combat armor from Durable Dunn's sacked caravan. --84.24.127.220 01:10, April 20, 2011 (UTC)

You can't repair it with combat armor, only light armors. Raiders outfit will do, just kill some fiends. --James Jr 14:54, April 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * I was asking because the page states this can be repaired with Combat Armors. Not sure what to change it to, though. --84.24.127.220 01:19, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

As indicated by the game files, the Assassin Suit was originally in the possession of Christine.
What does it actually say that hints at this? 14:57, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

No clue, if someone could seen if it has some sort if NPC ownership ID stating so it would be appreciated if someone could post it. If not, should be removed along with all the rest of the speculation posted, though Tagaziel will not like it, and probably change it back. (Troper of the Wastelands)

Just thinking here, but....
I guess the one found in DM is the same as the one in the B.E. But that thrice-damned Cloud corroded the armor and with it... The med systems. Btw does it seem like fallout's interp of the HEV suit from Half-Life? What with that female voice and the fact that it auto-injects stimpaks. P.S. morphine administered.

Variant Stealth Suit
The page says the Stealth Suit is it's variant, despite the fact that on the Stealth Suit's page, it blatantly states a quote from Sawyer I believe: It's not a variant of the Assassin Suit. So anyone mind correcting that?SilentDays 23:21, July 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Done.  K1LL 14:41, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

Wheres the referance
to it being created at Big MT, other than speculation?--Ant2242 21:46, July 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * Because in the quest to recover the suit you gather all of it's parts inside the X-13 lab. And there you also find a place where they tested the suit, you find posters and broken parts of the suit in it's current and older versions.  K1LL 14:23, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

I have not seen anything explicitly stating that the suit was originally developed at Big Mt. Nor have I seen any pieces of the armor in X-13, only CSA scraps, I would guess that the armor was studied in the same way as the deconstructed securitrons, not homemade. However I have not taken the time to fully explore X-13 and if you could provide evidence that I have overlooked, that would be highly appreciated.


 * Apparently subtle hints sail over your head. Ever wondered why the stealth suit Mk II is a Mark II? Or why the assassin suit has an identical model? Or how about the fact that Christine entered Big MT wearing recon armor, but left with the assassin suit? Not everything has to be told to the player in large, colourful capital block letters, y'know. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 19:04, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

It does not have an identical model if you want to get technical, which you obviously don't (Troper of the Wastelands)

Zounds! Quite a retaliation for an off handed comment made by an unimportant editor, from a long term and major member of the Vault, didn't think I'd be yelled at by someone like you, and only a few days after joining! That's not what I meant, and all I was trying to say was that just because there are hints and implications left for interpretation, it is not explicit fact, and if this site is going to be maintained in an encyclopaedic manner, it should not include conjecture nor speculation if I am informed correctly, and after lurking for three years I think I'd notice a pattern. If I am so completely and utterly bigoted and arrogant for stating concern about a minor issue, then call me out on it, and I'll listen because you've been editing for longer than I've known about the vault, but don't think you have to beat down someone for being wrong. (Troper of the Wastelands)

Ever wonder Why there are securitron MK VI or why Christen's COS Rifle uses the same texture? Or why there is only leather armor reinforced  in the Nevada-Mojave territory, or why YCS/186 has 4 extra coils? Some are obvious and clear cut: Dr.Ø modified and upgraded securitrons he acquired, others are not even plot relevant, The COS silencer rifle looks the way it does because the developers thought it should, the leather armor reinforced has no back story discussed or shown, it could have been made by anyone, maybe pre-war origin for some reason, or materialized out of thin air just because it was in the Mojave, also YCS/186 has no explained back story, it also could have been made by anyone, could be a pre-war version of the Gauss rifle, or jury rigged by a waste-lander, maybe bestowed open the mercenary who uses it by J.E. Sawyer himself, but things like this can not be pinned down and they cannot have articles written about them containing theories presented as hard fact! another long-wined rant from that editor everyone hates: (Troper of the Wastelands 02:39, August 5, 2011 (UTC))


 * It's obviously a predecessor to the stealth suit mk II. It stays. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 06:34, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

That's reasonable to assume, however the Assassin suit could easily have been developed independently, maybe it's an unlicensed project meant to cheaply emulate the MK II, or maybe a pre-war suit brought to Big Mountain for enhancement in the same way as all the robots you encounter there, it could easily have been made solely by X-13, but unless it has "MK I Big Mt. X-13" slapped on it in the next patch, a text file saying it came first, or conformation from a project staffer, I'm not buying it, it's still blatant conjecture treated as hard fact and does not meet the encyclopaedic standard the wiki should be shooting for. By the way, I keep hearing on the vault that someone, either J.E. Sawyer or Jason Bergman (the story changes every time) has confirmed that the MK. II is not a version of the assassin suit, but I have not been able to find the article to confirm this, can someone post a link if you find it? (Troper of the Wastelands)

I challenge your call on this, it stays for now, but not for ever! You have not listened, but by the rule of Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment (as seen on Tv Tropes: a terrible example of out of control political correctness in "free editing encyclopedias") to avoid instant reversion of the change made by anyone who agrees with you. I do think that the origin is relatively open ended even though it would seem obvious to most people (people who like jumping to conclusions and filling in blanks because something is obvious, and believes any opposition or skepticism to be idiotic). No edit war.(Troper of the Wastelands)

There is nothing saying that the Assassin suit originated from Big Mt. nothing saying specifically if it is the first of it's kind or the last, there are bits of a similar suit through out X-13, but there are also components of the Chinese stealth armor as well. There are no written documents that I have been able to find confirming that the Assassin Suit originated form Big Mountain, nor any saying that the Stealth suit MK II is a later product than the Assassin Suit, If I can get a confirmation from J.E. Sawyer's formspring, or Jason Bergman's thread, then O'd gladly put up a Behind the Scene's section with a proper reference. Until then, you can rail against me all you want, and vandalize my chat page if it is in fact confirmed by someone who actually worked on writing the game, but Until then there is just as much evidence of Robo-brains originating there just because you can make one using the splicing system at X-8. (Troper of the Wastelands 05:07, August 15, 2011 (UTC))

Flame my chat page all you want, but unless you have proof, your words are meaningless(Troper of the Wastelands 06:01, August 15, 2011 (UTC))

Background
It is the first working version of the Big MT stealth suit, developed in the X-13 testing facility. It is not computerized in any way; just a regular, effective suit of armor.

Speculation and Conjecture of background
put it in the notes section as a possible explanation, but until its confirmed with an Obsidian or Bethesda "higher up" it does not belong in the background section as if it already was proven to be true, sorry but you have to drawn the line finely if this wiki is going to be have Encyclopaedic quality, save it for TV Tropes WMG (Troper of the Wastelands 21:31, August 15, 2011 (UTC))

Time of last deletion (Troper of the Wastelands 03:49, August 16, 2011 (UTC))

Last time of deletion --FourWayDiablo 15:53, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Last deletion (Troper of the Wastelands 20:13, August 16, 2011 (UTC))

Speculation removed
I've removed this section and archived it here for reference (or ammo for an edit war). I was originally in favour of it being on the page (I rewrote this section before removing it), but the fact is that this is speculation until confirmed by the devs. A lot can be inferred from the game, but nothing proved in order to meet wiki guidelines.

Background

It is the first working version of the stealth suit developed in the Big MT X-13 testing facility. Unlike its successor, the Stealth suit Mk II, it is not computerized in any way and functions as a regular suit of armor.

--FourWayDiablo 15:53, August 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Reverted vandalism. Certain degrees of obviousness should be obvious. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 16:33, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Sigh. It seems your reputation for childish behaviour is well-deserved. It was not vandalism and you know it. Your choice of words is purposefully inflammatory. I made an edit and explained my reasons. You are not being objective.

I won't revert your edit. Congratulations, you win at the internet.

Presented without further comment:

Content criteria


 * All content should relate to the Fallout series of games, its setting or the SPECIAL character system.
 *  All content needs to be accurate. The Vault aims to provide reliable information. In particular, adding speculation and own inventions (fan fiction, fan art etc.) to articles should be avoided.
 * All content needs to be verifiable. Other editors need to be able to check and verify it.
 * All content needs to be informative. Information which is only of interest to the writer or to other editors (as opposed to readers) should not be included in articles.
 * All content needs to be objective. Opinions, gameplay strategy, and "my favourite"-style passages should not be added to articles. Accordingly, guides may only be posted as subpages of one's user page or as a blog.
 * All content needs to relate to the games as delivered by the developers; user modifications are not covered by this wiki.
 * All content needs to abide by copyright regulations. Generally, content from other sites should not be copied unless permission has been granted. For example, do not upload magazine scans or add illegally obtained information, so as to avoid potential legal problems.

--FourWayDiablo 17:30, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Seeing as the Background information has been added again, I will comment under this topic. The sentence is speculation and has no grounds. If you have found information about the Assassin Suit being created in MT and is the predecessor to the Mk II, please state it below. I do not want to get in the middle of any kind of edit war or the like, so I left the page as is, and would like to discuss this matter civilly. Please respond and discuss. --Living Lifeless 9 22:06, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

This means war!
I don't care how long you've worked for this site, you don't follow it's policies and you don't listen too reason, you only accept your own ideas, and your only too happy post them on every corner of this site. If this site is ever going to retain a level of accuracy and professionalism the admins are going to need to uphold their responsibilities to policy like any other leadership in any given organization, and to truth like any other data base ever compiled. I challenge your status as an Administrator, as a self proclaimed "Loremaster" and as a notable and decorated editor. You have abused what little power over this site for too long, it is time that your fiction is struck from every asset of this site! (Troper of the Wastelands 20:20, August 16, 2011 (UTC))

Why don't you leave him alone instead of coming to chat and trying to explain your ridiculous points. You can't actually challenge his administratorship as you are not in any place of power to do so. Why don't you make some edits and leave him alone instead of calling him a tyrant or whatever you just slammed into your keyboard. 20:42, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Has Tag actually done anything to you? Burned your house down, robbed your village and/or taken your women? No. he's done his job which is to moderate this wiki. If you don't like that maybe a civil tongue will help, instead of spamming it on a article talk page, waybe you should have said to Tag "Actually, I disagree can we talk about this?" or, had that failed, maybe even just gone to another admin and asked for an impartial judge to lend a hand. Instead, what you did was make yourself look like a trolly anon. There's a reason that Tag has admin powers, maybe you should think about that before you question him? Much love. 20:48, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Ohh it's back now, okay, here is my comment I had before deletion and etc.

The United States was never in any place of power to challenge the British, but that happened, and is now a great power in the world. Above (somewhere) is the sentence that was previously stated in the background section was speculation, however it is currently removed. So I have two things, (1) Trooper we can all tell you're butt hurt over not being heard, but that's the fact of life, the speculation has been removed so you can stop now. (2) There is no reason to be rude on either the Chat, Talk or Comment pages inside this wiki. It makes you look bad, we all do it, but it needs to stop. Problem solved, go home and take a nap. --Living Lifeless 9 20:55, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks but I don't think you should be standing up for me, i've kicked a hornet's nest for standing up for the truth, I don't think you should take the fall with me. I have recently netted a zero percent approval rating on the chat, the speculation has been reposted, I'm not being taken seriously (ironic because I was trying to discredit someone) and I'm receiving death threats from Ghost Avatar. I guess I let it slip: how much of a stubborn jackass I can be some times. I'd like to make amends with the admins, but I'm pretty sure no-one ever forgives on this wiki.(Troper of the Wastelands 22:22, August 16, 2011 (UTC))

I'm not necessarily standing up with you, I agree that the sentence is speculation, but it is just that you took it too far and angered/annoyed too many people. If you would have calmly contact others about this than it would have been resolved quicker and cleaner. It's a mess for now, but I hope Tag will contact me soon to put an end to whether this was speculation or not. --Living Lifeless 9 22:29, August 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * And that is the crux of your issue, you tried to "discredit someone", instead of the point of the debate. And don't try to exaggeration things with statements like "death threats from Ghost Avatar". Thing is about wikis, everything is there to see, if people wish to look (even deleted comments from pages). Fabricating false statement will get you no where. It will simply discredit anything else you have to say. User avatar tag.gif Avatar talk.png 22:34, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think you've tried to listen,
and don't try to use straw-man arguments on me, you already think I sound ridiculous, so don't put words in my mouth. (Troper of the Wastelands 20:54, August 16, 2011 (UTC))

As indicated in the games files....
There should be a proper reference for this evidence, if there isn't any within the next few days, it should be taken off the page. (Troper of the Wastelands 03:34, August 19, 2011 (UTC))

"As indicated by the game files, this suit was originally to be in Christine Royce's possession." (Troper of the Wastelands 03:35, August 19, 2011 (UTC))
 * But that is a proper reference; the game files in the G.E.C.K. likely say something like "ChristinesAssassinSuit". I can't verify this because I don't have Dead Money for PC, thus I have no G.E.C.K. for Dead Money. additionally, the assassin suit is also found in where you find Christine; in the the Villa Clinic. Coincidence?. Seeing as how Christine has been to Big MT, and she left her recon armor, she had to have taken the Stealth suit Mk I, aka the assassin suit. --Kastera (talk) 04:25, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * But as there are no files that prove or state that the Assassin suit originated there, we should not go ahead and assume it. Try contacting Sawyer or any other dev that should know. --Living Lifeless 9 14:02, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, but we can assume the assassin suit is the stealth suit Mk 1, because they look exactly the same (save for a retexture), and are used to the same thing: sneaking. People on this site have often assumed correctly about things that weren't certain such as what This Machine, the Automatic rifle, the .45 Auto submachine gun, the Lever-action shotgun, and cazadors were based off of months before a dev said a word about it. How is this any different? They're clearly the same piece of equipment, one has just been upgraded. That's why the stealth suit is called the mark II, because the assassin suit is mark I. --Kastera (talk) 16:22, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * You cannot disagree that speculation is still speculation, until cold hard facts put it to rest. The sentence could be rephrased and place in the Notes section, could go like; "One may say that because of the strikingly similar appearance to the Stealth suit Mk II, that this suit was the first version of stealth suit blah blah blah" you get the picture. I still suggest contacting a dev who would know a thing or two about this. --Living Lifeless 9 20:01, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * The hard cold facts are there, you just refuse to accept them. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 22:30, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

I have yet to see a file from inside the game that tells us that the Assassin suit is indeed the predecessor of the Stealth suit. I don't refuse to accept it, I just have not seen evidence that fully backs-up up your speculation. --Living Lifeless 9 23:02, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Except that there are not "Cold hard facts" for you Tagaziel; you only have conjecture, you assume that the assassin suit is the first version because it appeared earlier and because the MK. II implies that it's the second version of something, and because they look the same, and you have one supposedly existing in-game file that suggests it belong to Christen, except that no-one seems to want to actually say what it is, and so far the only person that has sited it on the talk page is someone who does not have access to the GECK, acts in a similarly condescending manner as the rest of my opposition (most of which are administrators) and doesn't know what I ment by "a proper reference" I meant that I would write a proper reference link if someone would give me a correct and reliable "canon" source. None of you seem to have the patience to dig up my now deleted counter arguments that I wrote before this became an indignant flame war, and al of you seem only too happy to point out my misdemeanors but none of the flaws in my original arguments, I'd be happy to write an essay on mistakes I made if you actually start acting like decent human beings, looks like any attempt to make this right has failed, and I doubt that you'd actually try to listen without threatening to ban me when ever I try to defend myself against you thugs. (Troper of the Wastelands 04:28, August 20, 2011 (UTC))

You try to shield your selves by accusing me of the very things that you are doing, you declare that I'm not seeing the clear and obvious facts, accuse me of the one that's not listening, you are not arguing with me, you seem to only write back in evasive contradiction, you shove things in my face any time I try to reconcile things I did wrong, only to do the same sort of condescending personally attacks you accuse me of, you Tagaziel have no argument, you have done nothing but say that everything is obvious, yet refer to "subtle hints" and that it's simply things that people should have picked up on, by the way, there is no actual evidence that Christine actually brought the Assassin Suit from big mountain, the only thing you guys seem to have going for you is that the game files supposedly some how indicate Cristine owning it, and it's proximity of being in the same building as her, when she is wearing no more than blood splattered fatigues. you leave too much room in your arguments for these things, If you can tie them down, I'd respect it, if can do a logical proof I'd look for confirmation, if you present confirmation from Chris Avellone himself, I'll write it down with myself, and I'd even put in a source reference. But until then you have conjecture reliant evidence, and a mere hypothesis. You can't have this kind of stuff on a page when the only way you can back it up is through contradiction and shoddy sources. Until you get the proper confirmation, you can't have this kind of guessing that's on a page intended to be factual, and don't leave any room for doubt. (Troper of the Wastelands 05:23, August 20, 2011 (UTC))

General consensus and fact are not the same thing (unless this is a cult and not a wiki). The logical thing to do is leave the information off the page until it is confirmed, not leave it on until it isn't. However, it seems objectivity has been lost. Looking beyond whatever "war" is going on here, Troper of the Wastelands has made reasonable points which have not been countered. If the inferences are so obvious then the entry is not required on the page in the first place.

Once again:


 *  All content needs to be accurate. The Vault aims to provide reliable information. In particular, adding speculation and own inventions (fan fiction, fan art etc.) to articles should be avoided.
 * All content needs to be verifiable. Other editors need to be able to check and verify it.
 * All content needs to be informative. Information which is only of interest to the writer or to other editors (as opposed to readers) should not be included in articles.

I have not been here long, but the way this is playing out is leaving a nasty taste. As there are admins here, an indication of which rules are to be followed and which are arbitrary would be appreciated. --FourWayDiablo 11:09, August 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * I *am* an admin. And I say that this information is accurate, reliable, logical and stays. Kastera, another admin, agrees with me. So that's 2 admins versus you. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 12:49, August 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Not 2, 3 admins ;). I also saw this information before, and they lead to the same conclusion. Itachou [~talk~] 12:53, August 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * And me equals 3 on their side. Just because you are admins does not mean you can diminish us and our objections over this matter. The information might be logical to some, but it is not necessarily reliable or accurate. It may seem that cats have 9 lives, but in reality, if they got hit by a car, their time is up. --Living Lifeless 9 13:15, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Tagaziel, your choice of words is very telling. "Versus"? Really? After your initial accusation to me of vandalism, you are now having trouble differentiating between a discussion and an argument. It is clear that your ego is clouding your judgement. "Because I say so" seems like a poor reason to ignore wiki guidelines.

Itachou, I thought better of you. You seemed like a nice guy. I see now that you share the opinion that this wiki is "administrators versus lowly editors". Ah, well. Live and learn. I'll try not to bother you with any more annoying requests for advice.

I'll (pointlessly) reiterate that I am not against the information if it can be verified. So far it cannot, and all the dot-joining and "well obviously" comments do not change that. Once confirmed, I'd be more than happy to see it on the page (the text is my rewrite). Is waiting for verification an affront? I thought we were trying to present accurate information to the end-user.

Also, my question about the picking and choosing of rules has been ignored, perhaps unsurprisingly.

In any event, I'm learning a lot about this community. --FourWayDiablo 14:56, August 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Edit. Given the tone of this discussion, this seemed pertinent:

Rules for administrators


 * If an administrator is involved in an editing dispute, he or she should not use admin abilities or status to solve it. Ask another user or admin to mediate.

Looks like I found my own answer to my "arbitrary rules" question. Tagaziel is an admin and he "says so", and that is the only "rule" in effect here. Classy. --FourWayDiablo 15:24, August 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * What are you talking about FourWayDiablo? It is not because I'm admin that I support them, it's only because I support their opinion and I think you have no argument against that. For exemple, I had many, many debate with Mikael on this or that (Big MT, K9000, APA of FO2, Graphical mods etc.) and we always reached a compromise and all ends well, but it's not the case with normal editors who want almost all the time put admins at fault and not come up with something good to the end. When I was a normal editor I was not like that I sincerely, and I'm not like that on other wiki I contribute. Also here on the Glossary of Caesar's Legion terms talk page, you can see me and Mikael against Billy Ocean and Ghost, all are admins so it's not "administrators versus lowly editors" like you said, it's just "contributor" debating with "contributor". Mikael's personal behavior is his own behavior, and has nothing to do with us (admins), so please don't judge every admins on one person.


 * For now about the assassin suit, everything is against you, it's not speculation and own inventions since indices are in-game and in the game files:


 * The Vault Boy icon of the assassin suit is named "nvdlc01apparel_christine_stealth_suit" in Dead Money game files and Christine come with Christine's COS recon armor in Big MT, and left there.
 * The stealth suit in Big MT is named Stealth suit "Mk II", a Mk II so a Mk I is existing (why named it Mk II if the Mk I is not findable somewhere, stealth suit would been sufficient).
 * Assassin suit have the same model as stealth suit Mk II and strangely also come from Big MT since it was the armor of Christine after Big MT.
 * Stealth suit poster in the X-13 testing facility have all the same style and the same color (and the far left stealth suit in the poster have exactly the same model of the Assassin suit).


 * Now, if you really want to be fixed for you, you can ask Chris Avellone on Twitter or Josh Sawyer on Twitter or Formspring, but it's not for us to do and I don't think we really need that but if you want, it's as you wish my friend =). Otherwise, If you have a real proof of the contrary, I will be the first to delete the information of the page. Itachou [~talk~] 22:59, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Itachou, your rational response is appreciated. I assume Mikael is Tagaziel, and will deal with any response he gives separately.

First things first, "what I am talking about":


 * Tagaziel stated, "So that's 2 admins versus you."
 * You then said, "Not 2, 3 admins ;)."

Your added smiley can be misread, especially considering the devolving tone of the discussion. How was I to read this other than "One admin is being confrontational and unreasonable, and is supported by two others"? Please note the word "versus" was Tagaziel's choice, not mine. Dealing with an undisciplined fellow admin is your responsibility (realistically, how far do you think I would get?) In any event, I have no further interest in this tiresome backstage drama. My only concern in this is the validity of the information, which brings me to:

Second things second:


 * Again, I am not against the information (third attempt to make this clear). I am against its inclusion without confirmation. Please re-read my previous post. Your counterpoint is still built on the sand of speculation. For example, using your same information, what if the assassin suit is the stripped-down "Mk III Light Reconnaissance" version of the suit? Maybe the Mk I suit was a complete failure. So far, the details we have are a Lego set, not a jigsaw.
 * The DLCs are only a few months old. I am increasingly baffled by the enforced urgency of this matter.

--FourWayDiablo 00:40, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I am going to try to contact Sawyer through Twitter, as no one has yet to say whether they will try contacting one of them. I don't do Formspring or any other thing like that, so if I don't get an answer within a day or so, I will post here telling you guys that, and then the ball is in one of your courts. I really don't care whether the information we have is true or not, but because there is the possibility that it might not be correct, it cannot be considered correct, and should be labeled as speculation. I am contacting Sawyer now, this will be my only attempt to contact him. Please try contacting him through other methods, or other devs (I think Sawyer is in Germany or some foreign country. Foreign to him that is.) --Living Lifeless 9 01:31, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks LivingLifeless9. As I only use the intertubes and/or carrier pigeons, your efforts are appreciated. --FourWayDiablo 02:35, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to but in, but I thought I would add my opinion. I think the coincidental evidence is staggering. More than enough to prove the point that the assassin suit is the forerunner of the Stealth Suit Mk. II. And agruing against the admins about their word choice is off topic, and is pointless really. I do agree with them, but I think we should ask the devs as a precaution, and to eliminate future arguments. Victor the Insane Cowboy Robot 03:44, August 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't we just add it back in? We have the evidence that spawned this entire debate. This whole thing started because of the sentence "As indicated by the game files...", and we now have the exact game file that it sprout from. The game file reads "nvdlc01apparel_christine_stealth_suit". This is direct proof that the assassin suit belonged to Christine. Why are we still debating this? --Kastera (talk) 03:50, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * It was back in, Troper keeps removing it (and did so earlier today too). UserGreatMara.png pistol.png 04:00, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with kas. It should be added back in until a dev debunks it. And Troper reverted 2 such edits within the past few hours in my records. I've yet to check page history though VictorFaceMonitor.png Victor the Insane Cowboy Robot 04:02, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

The behavior of Mikael does not mean he has wrong, just he is rude. Also, we can't do anything with an undisciplined admin if no one comes for report his behavior. If I was not here, what would have happened? It's may be similar in other pages which I will never see because it has more than 13,000 page here. So as I say, if you have a problem with him and any admin on something for exemple he was too aggressive to you, come talk to me and I will talk to the admin in question. Any problem can be resolved peacefully =).

To return to the subject, sorry my friend but the notation Mk I, Mk II etc. is only for functional model of something even prototype, not for nonfunctional or unfinished. Also, the name of the assassin suit in the game files is a tangible evidence independent of my opinion or a speculation. Itachou [~talk~] 12:55, August 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sawyer's twitter response "i don't know chris' intentions, sorry." Sent one tweet to Chris, and soon enough it should be settled. --Living Lifeless 9 13:44, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think there's much more to be said here beyond repetition. I'm happy wait for Chris' confirmation or denial or, if none is forthcoming, to wait for future facts. Until then the Background section shouldn't be on the page, but so be it. --FourWayDiablo 20:21, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I don't mean to seem rude or anything but,..... this arguement is pointless, what does it matter if the assasain suit is the MK.1 or not, what does it matter if christine wore the assasain suit or not. I think that everyyone is entitled to their own opinion about who wore what or where a suit came from. Its all bullshit and you should all just get back to your lives instead of pointless arguing. Remember the blank slate thing? I think its up to you as the player where the suit came from or not, what the hell happened to imagination and shit? Sheesh can't everyone just say fuck it and get along? If any of you keep up this arguement I'm hereby branding you a loser who thinks to highly of their damned opinions. That is all. Peace out and good night.--Shadow 06:13, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

This is a wikipedia for Fallout, it matters because we strive to bring Fallout players every piece of information about Fallout that we can. It could be up to the player to decide, but that is probably not the case, it most likely has a back-story of its own, whether is the Mk I stealth suit, or if it was creation from somewhere else. The "blank slate thing" is really for things that happened to and ONLY the player character before the story. BTW, Chris has yet to reply to my tweet, I suggest that someone else try and contact him. --Living Lifeless 9 13:25, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

I suppose it's out of the question to find a temporary compromise? I'm just getting caught up in this conversation and wouldnt it make sense to just put an "unconfirmed" or "unverified" tag next to the information? -The Polar Bear lives 00:05, August 23, 2011 (UTC)