Talk:.45-70 Gov't

Metal Gear Solid?
The first thing this caliber brings to mind is the Thor .45-70 used by Ocelot in MGS4. I almost got a PS3 just for that game, but I decided to get New Vegas instead. I'm also hoping that there's a bandana of suitable length, and something Sneaking Suit-ish. I'll probably play it gunz-a-blazin' early on, and add some sneaking mid-way through the game. TJbrena 23:30, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I Confess I did buy a PS3 just for that game. I got my 360 with new vegas too. I'm so broke... Zac hemker 16:49, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Odd Choice
The .45-70 seems an odd choice for an ammunition type, considering that every other type of cartridge used in the Fallout series uses smokeless powder while the .45-70 is primarily a black powder cartridge making it obsolete especially when compared to either the .357 or .44 magnum rounds. There are .45-70 rounds that have been loaded with smokeless powder and are extremely powerful but the list of weapons that can actually handle the round is very small (#REDIRECT Tompson Contender and #REDIRECT Magnum Research BFR probably being the best known) and it is not an especially popular round in that configuration especially when compared to the more potent S&W .500. Anyways there are already two other types of high powered pistol rounds that will be included in FNV which are the .357 and .44 magnum rounds (possibly three if the developers decided to give the 10mm round performance closer to what the 10mm Auto round has in real life; which actually has superior capabilities compared to the .357 magnum).--BattleBen 03:17, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

Have You ever seen a .45-70 Government cartridge in real-life? I would not screw with anybody carrying a gun with those bullets in it. It is a really old cartridge, but it was invented to take down those huge-ass bisons durring the old west. If it can kill a buffalo, I will kill a man (and maybe even badly hurt the person behind him). - Texas Ranger 01:22, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Err, modern .45-70 rounds are vastly superior to S&W .500... Infact according to Lyman's manual(49th edition), max load for a .45-70 for a 1873 Springfield Trapdoor Rifle is 500gr at 1603fps(A weak load for .45-70), which equates to about 2,854 lb/ft of muzzle energy. A S&W .500 on the other hand in its MAX load possible is 500gr at 1515fps which is 2,549 lb/ft and thats with a 15" bbl. Now most factory loads for .45-70 are rather anemic(like the load above) because there are a lot of old black powder rifles still being shot, and the factories don't want peoples rifles exploding on them, so they are purposely loaded weak to mimic old black powder rounds.  But if anyone is trying to say a S&W .500 is somehow more powerful then a modern .45-70, well they need to get a reloading handbook and read. Have a good 'un - Ski

Using a 300gr bullet you get 2075/2868 (fps/Foot pounds of energy) out of a 8" 500magnum while out of a 24" barrel for the 45-70 govt, you get 2050/3032 so the 500 is going to be more powerful out of a 24"barrel.--ONI assassin 97 00:00, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

You're using anemic loading data for the .45-70, most likely a factory load which are purposely loaded light for rifles made pre-1900's. A modern .45-70 load can throw a 500 grain round out to 1600 fps, out of a 22" barrel, a 405 grain bullet at 2,145 or if you want to stick with 300 grain 2,355 fps...  And thats in a lever-action rifle(Marlin 1895 to be exact, from Buffalo Bore Website), sticking with SAAMI specs and not the juiced up .45-70's which need a Ruger Mk 1 or a Siamese Mauser to fire safely.  Bottom line the .500 S&W is based on the old .50-70 that the .45-70 replaced in military service.  It is an excelent revolver round and out of shorter barrels it probably will outpace a .45-70 simply because the .45-70 is a rifle round and as such loads slower burning powder, then the .500 S&W.  Out of BFR(7.5in barrel) revolvers even hot .45-70 loads do not burn up all their powder, and it isn't uncommon to have almost 1/3 of the case still full of powder, where as the .500 has no powder left in the case after firing from the BFR(7.5in barrel). What I would like to see is a company like Buffalo Bore or Double Tap make a hot .45-70 with faster burning powder to be a dedicated pistol shooter, but there really isn't too much market for that. Not to mention last time I actually had my 350 gr Hornady .500 factory ammo, rated at 1900 fps, chronoed, it actually delivered about 1650 fps from my 8 3/8" revolver.

From the Hodgdon's Manuel #27, out of a 22" Handi Rifle)

300 grain 45-70 = 2424 fps 300 grain 500 S&W = 2248 fps

350 grain 45-70 = 2191 fps 350 grain 500 S&W = 2056 fps

400 grain 45-70 = 2002 fps 400 grain 500 S&W = 1971 fps

Alexander
Ok, Alexander either never restocks these, or only on extremely rare occasions. I've done like 15 72 hour wait cycles(stocking up on meds and ammo) and he's never gotten anymore after I bought out his initial stock of them(he has restocked other ammo I've bought from him). Gun Runners up near Vegas however do reliably restock the hollow point variants.--Kaiselius 03:13, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

To get Alexander to restock you need to wait 72 hours at the 188. At least every time I wait at the 188 for 72 hours(actually sleeping on one of the mattress' behind him)

Who the heck sells these?.
im level 22, EVERY single shop has between 50-100 of the stinking hollow point rounds, no regular or AP.--Shanmalinto 07:39, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Same here, I'm level 30 and I only see the ammo at gun runners but it's hollow point, once I obtained Ranger Sequioa the normal 45-70 Gov't showed up for sale once, hollow point still does good damage against armored oponents though, if you really want the nermal rounds then I sugest purchasing a box of 45-70 casings at gun runners and making the ammo.--Roflguy227 14:47, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Forget his name, but the shop in the novac dino occasionally stocks normal and hp rounds randomly (roughly once every 2, to 3 72hour wait cycles). However, it's only a very small amount of normals (usually <10 per time they stock them). I've also seen gunrunners stock bulk 45-70s(or was it surplus? I forget) and casings a grand total of once. If your going to be using the sequoia (or one of the other 45-70 arms), I'd highly suggest getting the hand loader perk. Not only does it vastly increase the rate at which you get casings back(I average 4 casings out of every 5 shots with luck 6), but you can also make the vastly superior swc 45-70's. Also, I don't think true AP 45-70 exist in game(or they just aren't implemented), I've never seen them anyways. In either case, the swc's probably blow them out of the water as well in either case.--Kaiselius 12:42, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

One thing I've taken to doing is buying Hollow Point from the gun runners (which they restock regularly), shooting it all, recovering the 35% in cases and then creating regular or (if I took hand loading) SWC rounds. It's not efficient, but it works.

^Uh, you realize you didn't have to shoot them off, but you could have disassembled them at a work bench to get 100% of their casings, powder, and lead, right? No of course you didn't.

^^Not sure which version you are playing, but you cannot break down hollow Points at the bench. Should have probably thought of that before you before you started acting like a jackass.

New Image
Would this image suffice for improved quality? --Saphireking65 04:02, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Amusing choice of words
Under the description for the SWC load, the article says, "An ultra-sharp, flat-nosed round..." Which is it, sharp or flat-nosed? Lol. :) 68.53.162.70 20:32, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

Its both. Ultra sharp in the shape of the bullet, and the flat-nosed is the tip of the bulletIcommandoxx 00:07, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

New way to obtain?
My character's level is in the mid-high 20's, and I'm finding that a LOT of the Marked Men in the Lonesome Road addon are carrying Hunting Revolvers and Brush Guns, and have a good amount of .45-70 Gov't ammo on them when killed. Can someone else check this out to confirm it? --Danaw167 23:59, September 29, 2011 (UTC)

hollow points
Is there any place where I could find a decent amount of hollow point rounds? Not even Quartermaster Bardon has hollow points in big numbers, usually at around 300, compared to his others which range from 1,000 to 6,000. --Felix Brehh User Avatar talk.png 00:58, October 27, 2011 (UTC)