Talk:Little Lamplight

Star Trek
Could this be a nod to the episode of the original series of Star Trek called "Miri" 90.214.148.97 19:19, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I always thought it was a throw to Lord of the Flies. But I have not seen much of the original Star Trek series. (or much of ANY of the Trek's, really. : Schizmoooo 23:26, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's the wiki article on the Trek episode, what do you think?


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miri_(Star_Trek)


 * Though I can also see the Lord of the Flies Connection, now that you mention it. Douglasnicol 17:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It can also be a reference to Logan's Run. Aww, am I already that old ? :( -Orme 21:05, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You're talking to someone who likes Space:1999 and UFO, now I feel old. Douglasnicol 19:14, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I like those too :) Day of the Triffids was good too. But not post-apocalyptic enough to be a reference in F3 I think.

Where do they came from?
Folks.. I have been thinking.. where do all these childrens comes from? I mean.. the population should have been gone if they kicked out everyone that was old enought to create childrens...

Birthday?
Some places in the game say 16, but the kid has to leave on his 18th birthday. What is up with that? Sartis 21:07, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I've also noticed this recently. Is there a definitive source that states which age is the appropriate one for dismissal from the settlement? --Olivaise 15:44, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It changes from region to region. I've got the PAL version and it says 18. NTSC is 16 IIRC

I think they made Sticky only leave at 18 so they could make him an adult and thus allow the player to kill him. --216.220.115.175 23:54, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Regarding age
I changed 18 to 16. I don't recall any references to 18 and yet references to 16 were certainly prominent, such as "Remember: Don't trust anyone over 16!" 148.100.210.72 22:11, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's stick to 16. Mirar 19:21, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

It's probably just a continuity error on the creator's part, or else Little Lamplight allows some sort of leeway with its residents. Several people in Bigtown mention 16, but the kid you see getting ejected from Lamplight is 18. Speedball 23:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It is a continuity error. Sticky says "Only people under 18 get to live in Little Lamplight," when you talk to him just after his exile, but Flash in Bigtown says "You reach sixteen, and you're out."


 * What I want to know is, why are there still kids in this place when the tapes indicate the original kids were in there on a field trip when the bombs fell 200 years ago? These can't be the same kids, so where are they getting new ones? And why are they getting new ones when MacCready says they have to exile their numbers because they don't have enough food and supplies to last forever? --67.181.102.146 11:07, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You know that a girl can get pregnant before she's 16? Ausir 13:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd sort of expect the women of Bigtown to mention having been separated from their babies once they reached adult-age... --67.181.102.146 07:23, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If you consider how early puberty can start for some kids (I was nine to ten when everything started for me), their kids would have been past the age where they "need" the parent (I'm talking like over three or four years old) by the time the parent turned sixteen. I'd say it's either a mistake on Bethesda's part, to not mention where the kids keep coming from or have anyone in Big Town mention leaving their child, or they didn't want some sort of scandal where Bethesda is accused of encouraging pre-teen/teenage pregnancy. I'm going to go with it being purposefully left out myself. Also, it's possible that the practice has been going on for so long that all of the kids just accept it, and wouldn't mention anything about the child they left behind. I'd also imagine that exceptions would probably be made for Lamplighters with babies still breastfeeding, but really, who knows? I'm just speculating here.--Niksilp 21:05, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

It's quite possible that the residents of Big Town want their children to be safe, so they send them to Little Lamplight. Lamplight was one of the places you could send Bryan Wilkes to as a home. Not to mention how many people in Megaton comment on fathers leaving children in the wasteland. Take Sydney for example. They also mention they have scavenging teams, so the might pick those kids up and bring them back. -- I-am-a-panda


 * They want them to be safe...by sending them to the town that kicked them out in the first place? Honestly, you would think that after 200 years none of these children would even REMEMBER why they hate "Mungos," rather it's simply an arbitrary hate from the passing of generation to generation. The original reason, as stated in the article, is because of the adults who denied them entry to Vault 87 (which ended in ruin anyway, so the kids are better off where they are) so you'd think that after the "Mungos" of Vault 87 had died, and 200 years had passed, the kids would hold a different feeling. DavidDavidson 05:17, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to start this again, but it keeps getting changed on the article. This is all the dialogue relating to the age of expulsion. On the 16 side: And on the 18 side:
 * Remember, never trust anybody over the age of 16.
 * Mungos been pretty bad to Lamplighters, for as long as our history goes back. They just don't trust anyone over sixteen.
 * We all used to live in a place called Little Lamplight, but they have a rule about age. You reach sixteen, and you're out.
 * Bigtown? A fairy-tale really. The Lamplighters who turn sixteen aren't allowed to stay in the caves, but they have to go somewhere.
 * Only people under 18 get to live in Little Lamplight

In other words, the only person who mentions 18 is Sticky. Since it's 4-1 in favour of 16, I'd go with that. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 15:47, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

You know as far as how new kids are comming in to town i feel its most likely a little of each.. some early births but mostly wasteland orphans brough back by the scav teams or droped off by wastelanders... also the idea of the little lamplight - big town cycle makes sence too, if that is what they where tought then its easy for them to say "kids live in lamplight grownup in big town".. 75.194.107.242 08:08, February 5, 2010 (UTC) Lucian Dragos

Exploits
Here's something fun to do (note this may work in any area) I was shooting at the dogs in LittleLamplight for fun, when i decided to swith to the Missile Launcher. After wounding the dogs, I shot one last time at the dogs (at close range) and killed both me and the dog. The game restarted, and I gained the 65 xp for killing the dog, and no negative karma or hostility.
 * Yeah, I experience this all the time while killing random people all over the wastes. It's pretty funny. This is just a general glitch in the game as you suspected. --70.143.54.203 21:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I noticed that too, actually I think its purposeful. XP should be earned for what you CAN do, not what you DECIDE to do. If you can kill Grouse, hey, you deserve XP, but if you like to slave, then you don't want to kill him. Besides, I've gotten XP, reloaded, and got the same XP again, so how could that be a bug? It only works sometimes, I'm guessing once per person. I think I'll experiment with this a little. --TheFrogger 22:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

XP is short for Experience, human beings dont become more experienced by knowing that they CAN do something , the become more experienced by actually doing it .. i know i could shoot a gun, but i dont have any experience in shooting guns cause i never have ... also im pretty sure the XP that appears when you load a game isnt counted, its happened to me several times where i was 50 XP away from getting a level up ,and then this glitch happened and i got 50 XP , and then nothing happened 94.249.113.145 09:37, 25 June 2012 (UTC) woops, i completley forgot to look at the date 94.249.113.145 09:37, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Holodisks
The article states that you can find "three [holodisks] in the scavenger store and three in the 'schoolhouse'"

I checked both those areas and was only able to find 2 in each. The scavengar store has "My Diary, By Jason Grant," entries 1 and 2. The schoolhouse has "Journal of Carrie Delaney," entries 1 and 2. I was able to find at least one other holodisk in Little Lamplight, but it wasn't in those locations and it was not the diary of Jason Grant of Carrie Delaney (it was called "January 26, 2077 -- Little Lamplight")--24.186.43.182 03:40, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I imagine that the other two the article is talking about are those related to The Replicated Man. The article probably needs to be cleaned up a little to make it more obvious.--Niksilp 08:02, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Great Chamber
Perhaps it's just me, but I noticed that the design of the Great Chamber in Little Lamplight was extremely similar to the Under Skar area of the town of Ald-Ruhn in the Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, which was also developed by Bethesda.

I noticed that too, actually.- Lomopingseph

Bethesda Hates Us
It's true, why else would they take away the ability to kill such snooty, annoying children? The only saving grace is making fun of Princess for her name. Which I took too much joy out of than I should have, anyone agree? DavidDavidson 04:44, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Just use a child killing mod like i do and thats it..


 * oh, and what,praytell, do you suggest, 360 and ps3 usesrs do?-JoeHanson


 * To DavidDavidson: It's illegal to allow killing children in a video game. I'm not kidding.
 * To JoeHanson: Get a PC.
 * --Oferphuxake 03:19, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, apparently, theres a mandate or somthing saying that its illegal to kill children in a video game.

What about blowing up meagton....?--TheFrogger 22:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * (Sorry for the late response, but eh.) Most likely because you don't SEE The children die. For example, there are child-sized skeletons in the Springvale school. --74.5.177.164 23:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Little Lamplight source
I think it was inspired by the 3rd Mad Max movie 'Mad Max - Beyond Thunderdome'

which plays also in a post-apocalyptic world, with a colony of children discovered

by Max (by the way, in my opinion not a great movie - the first part was the best).

I also think there are other parts in the game (world, story, characters) inspired

by the Mad Max movies. Definitely the 'Raiders-style' comes out of these movies

(part 2 + 3). I see several analogies between these movies and the game.

Dirk 87.123.111.29 11:24, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree, but the inspiration is likely from more than just Mad Max. Mad Max itself was influenced by the Lost Boys of 'Peter Pan', and there have been many other stories of 'children colonies' since. Star Trek, and Logan's Run (though the age was a little higher there) to name a few. More recently, an episode of Stargate: Atlantis.24.87.26.165 11:42, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

If they've lived in a cavern forever....
Then why have they yet to become trogs? I don't understand this.

I can only speak for The Pitt add-on; but Trogs were created by a combo of radiation sickness and massive chemical pollution. The kids of LL have figured out a lot of treatments for the common ailments like rad-poisoning rickets. I don't think there's a souce of chemical pollution to affect them.--A Pickering 22:45, January 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * - How do more children keep being "Created" without pissing off the ESRB?
 * mAybe there immigrants...or....no....not that you sick pathetic pervert!Why else would chil-wait...im rambling again aint i?Fuck...... Werewolfhell 15:44, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

The kids in LL have scavenging teams so they might sometimes find kids lost in the wastes. I'm also pretty sure that the adults from Bigtown send their kids there because its more safe.


 * Children under sixteen. Humans reach puberty before that...

True, there's pleanty of time between ages 12 and 18 to squeeze out a kid. Plus its also possible that the people of Big Town send their children to little lamplight because its safer than their town what with supermutants, slavers and raiders turning up all the time.--A Pickering 22:43, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

to put in my two bits: many wasteland parents also probably don't have the resources to raise a child. 24.87.26.165 11:43, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Back Entrance
Wheres the back entrance? --TheFrogger 21:39, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Glitch? Game crash.
I walked into LL and one of the unnamed citizens ran towards me and my game closed down. I'm on a PS3. Just wondering if it happened to someone else before. Birthday Suit 03:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

What happens when you shoot at them? I mean they can't die or be targeted in VATS, but most carry weapons. Would they just shoot at you whilSetimir92 01:27, 21 July 2009 (UTC)e you have no way of defending yourself???

Nothing happens if you shoot at them. They just run away. Explosives don't affect them either. 24.87.26.165 11:42, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Fun with kids ( good laugh)
i was in that cafe sort of area ( i think they call in spelunkers, where that eclair kid has his food) and one of the kids was next 2 the water, so i pushed her into the water and she couldnt get out and all she did was try 2 swim out, but she got stuck at the bottom of the water. i was laughing so hard! try it if u get bored --Masqueradebunny14 07:45, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Dogs
Should the 6 dogs located here have there own page? I think other dogs have there own pages Vault 102 19:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Massive bug
while i went through lamplight i walked through the main door which i went through as per normal (though i think it may have been a bit lower but thats likely my tv) i went into third person view to look around and i started noclipping on xbox 360, the controls remain in spectator mode making it difficult to control and i flew up into the cave roof, if i can replicate this i may post a video.

Moved from article
''It is largely up to speculation how the population is continually replenished by new children. Theories range from very early breeding, based loosely on Bittercup's number of boyfriends, to slow aging due to the consumption of the cavern's special fungus. Another, more attractive (although equally disturbing) theory, is that raiders, wastelanders, and slavers drop off any unwanted of their young at the cavern's entrance in order to loosely ensure their offspring's survival when they do not want to care for them on their own. The knowledge of the area by the slavers implies that it could be economical for them to place unwanted offspring to be raised there, and later recapture them as adults at Big Town. Thus, the illustrious story of the "safe" Big Town may be a part of this slaver-ploy.''

Speculation goes on talk pages. Spoon 13:19, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

unconfirmed bugs

 * The door of the Souvenir Shop is sometimes locked (difficulty Easy) with the shop Merchant, Knick Knack, stuck inside. None of the kids appears to have the key nor be able to open the door so you'll have to pick it yourself.
 * You can enter Vault 87 and start Finding the Garden of Eden virtually the minute you enter Little Lamplight, before all other quests.
 * Sometimes in Spelunkers (The food court) NPC's will randomly fall in the water.

These need to stay here until they are verified by a minimum of 2 different people--Kingclyde 05:57, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

-I've had a lot of NPC's fall in the water. Both 'named' (Like Lucy and Biwwy, and I can't seem to find Eclair so I'm guessing he's in that water or the pools in the Great Chamber)and the generic 'Little Lamplighter'

I couldn't find Knick Knack after our initial meeting (search all of LL a dozen times), and I did pick the lock of the Souvenir Shop but he wasn't there either. I'll try again to pick the lock during daytime hours, but if it was night time when I picked it, shouldn't he have been sleeping in bed? It's very irritating that he's missing. 24.87.26.165 11:44, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Missing remains?
LL's history states that when the kids revolted and took over the caves they pushed the adults remains into the cave pools. I've dived into the pools and looked around a little but couldn't find the skeletons of these people. Has anyone actually managed to find them? Are they there at all?

after 200 years in that kind of water even skeletons will riot away... and the fungus they grow likes strange meat witch *spoiler* is human meat so it is posable its more then just a story - Lucian Dragos

Hight of the children
one thing that bothers me is how all the kids in the game are the same hight.. why is 6 y/o bumble just as tall as 14 y/o knock knock... it all just lazy programers.. every kid has its own entery in the GECK all they had to do is a simple scale comand and poof kids are the right hight. 75.195.4.6 06:51, February 5, 2010 (UTC) Lucian Dragos

I totally agree, and furthermore, would love to see some physical range in the player avatar (the 'Lone Wanderer') reflective of the SPECIAL stats, and some additional customization in character creation beyond face detailing.

For instance, height and shoulder width could be set initially by the player, but muscular development detail and overall bulk (thickness of neck for instance, and chest circumference) could be influenced by Endurance and Strength stats.

It really bugs me that my character looks exactly the same (physically) after endless adventures and increases in strength as he did when he first left Vault 101, wet behind the ears.

Strength should also influence the size of items one can move around by clicking the right joystick (360).

Also, would be nice to see tanning take place if one spends a lot of time outside in the wasteland without head gear, but maybe that's too fussy.

Hopefully, some of this will be addressed in New Vegas.24.87.26.165 11:59, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Having the same behaviour as the rest of the game is not a "bug"
For some reason, the article is protected (or at least protected from anon's), so saying it here: It isn't a but that kids can't drown in Little Lamplight. The kids are... well... kids. And they're not allowed to die in Fallout 3. Otherwise, you could just nudge all the residents into the water to wipe out the town, right? 72.88.47.47 23:35, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Thanks. And the article is protected because of the constant edit-warring over Sticky's age.--Gothemasticator 05:54, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Little Lamplight defenses
Does anyone ever wonder what exactly keeps the super mutants out? Or even the Slavers for that matter. Those gates don't look like they can hold back either for as long as they possibly have. If Eulogy Jones knew where little lamplight is then why not just send some guys to bust in and capture the kids? The Brotherhood of Steel die from super mutants so how is it that these kids protect themselves so well? Anybody got any theories?

Same way as everyone else. Walls and guns. Realistically, they would probably have not lasted long, but realistically, alot of Fallout would fall apart. But the in-game reason is just guns. As Joseph says, though they learn whatever they want, they all learn defending themselves and other survival skills. Miumaru 00:25, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

...and how to the muties get in and out of murder pass/vault 87? The only way to the wasteland seems to be through Little Lamplight. I guess there's a hidden way from the Vault.

But on topic: the muties probably have not made a serious effort to take LL partially because little children don't have a lot of meat on their bones... or maybe because a steady diet of cave fungus makes for horrible eating. :-P 24.87.26.165 12:03, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Something in the water
I've noticed that the water in the Spelunkers area and maybe other areas of little lamplight has a health boast of 30 compared to 20 for most other freestanding water. Could this be a result of the cave fungus?

I should think so, also did't someone say something about throwing 'mungos' in? What ever the reason, the important thing to remember is to sign JASPER42

Live for 200 years
The Nuclear war occured at 2077, the same time the kids were at lamplight. At 2277, the kids are STILL there, they can live for 200 years?

Patriot 20:46, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Uh, no, they're their descendents. Keep in mind that inhabitants are allowed to stay until they're 18, meaning that the older residents are more than capable of giving birth to another generation before they leave for Big Town. -Nahald 16:21, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

That's... really odd. -Thecairocat 21:00, July 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Creepy" might be a better word. This part wasn't thought through very carefully by the designers. Considering how secure Little Lamplight is, one might imagine that parents could choose to send their children there deliberately. Another alternative would be via the Little Lamplight scavenging parties, either rescuing orphans (remember you can send Bryan Wilks there), kidnapping them, or buying them from slavers. Either would be preferable to the implication that they've got a few pregnant pre-seventeens (or pre-fifteens if the leaving age is sixteen) stashed away.


 * Both of the above alternatives fit well with the fact that there are no infants in the cave, and the youngest resident, Bumble, is about 6. On the other hand, Bumble's page does say that "She sometimes carries around a Teddy Bear that used to be her mother's and has been passed down through generations of Lamplighters," so maybe the children are born in the cave.


 * Little Lamplight was completely insane and stupid no matter what the explanation turned out to be. I don't care how messed up those kids got with mongos, there's no way you'd have me believe that mothers could be permanently separated from their children by a bunch of punk kids, they'd either take them with them or simply got the older kids together and taken over. And when I say mothers and by extension fathers too, I include the almost inevitable surrogate parental-like bond that would form with orphans brought in.


 * But all this is moot since we're supposed to believe that the little snots survived there for 200 years even though they were right next to Super Mutant Central with nothing but a "gate" made off plywood and sheet metal separating them.Dr. Lobotomy 06:28, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

Hello! I've read the Logan's Run novels, seen the movie and the television series too. I used to own a copy of "Logan's Run" myself, but I had to borrow the novel's sequels. I own a copy of the movie's official DVD. I've also seen, "Star Trek: Miri" and I've seen the Don Johnson movie, "A Boy & His Dog". With the movie and TV-show, "Logan's Run", they made the age you die, 30. Thus middle-age is exactly 15! While in the novels, the age of death was 20, so middle-age was exactly 10! In the movie and series, I think clones and/or surrogacy were involved, hence having numbers for surnames. But in the novels, you married and raised a family from 10 to 15, and then worked until your death, from 15 to 20.(At the time the books were written and the movie/series made, United States Common Law Marriage Age of Consent was 10 for females and 12 for males, so maybe the writer's knew that at the time.Before you get too shocked by that, remember, fornication isn't held in the same regard as marital sex, so asking a minor just to have sex with you was and is held to a different standard than marriage, in that if you are a major rather than another minor, it is illegal and a taboo both!) Of my paternal grandmother's generation, all of her siblings sought to be married in their early to late teens, even if it meant crossing the Red River into Texas to do it at a Justice of the Peace's house late at night! When I was in high school, one of my classmates married as a freshman, then by the time she was a sophomore, she was a mother. Alas she and the baby were killed by a truck at an intersection during our junior year. Females of my class as juniors and seniors, would get engaged. Some took the GED to get out early, so they could marry sooner and go on to college as well.In the 1990s, a 12-year-old cousin of mine got engaged, then was married by 13, and was a working father at 14. All of that is too say that teen parents are not all that far-fetched.

Now as for, "A Boy & His Dog", the Boy was 15 I think, and his dog helped him to seek out suitable females that he could have sex with. The telepathic dog would find the females for him, in exchange for food, protection, et cetera. When he finally fell in love with a blonde girl, he decided that his dog was worth more to him as a companion than she was, so they ate the girl!

But all of that aside, prior to reading this talk page and the actual article, I thought it was a "Star Trek: Miri" situation, due to the fuss about the fungus! So, live and learn!

reading this brings up the thought anyone seen children of the corn? ok stay with me they die at 18 years old so the kids are their for YEARS same logic would apply, true in CIVILIZED society like this a society like that would not exist but post nuke lots of stuff happened so, primal instinct is to keep the generations going and about the super mutants if you try to go in the back way the door is broken and what if the mutants just ignore them or the kids are just so smart they scare them away, remember super mutants aren't that smart.

Mission question
Apparently, you're supposed to lure one of the kids out of Little Lamplight. Which is it? I've talked to all of them and none of them have the "GTFO" option...


 * I assume your doing the secret/unmarked quest The Kid-Kidnapper. If so then the girl your looking for is named Bumble.


 * She normally spends most of her time in the Little Lamplight Schoolhouse either with Joseph or with Lucy in the Little Lamplight Clinic. If you need anymore information/help with this or any other quests check out this link The_Kid-Kidnapper or just ask me and I'll be glad to help you out. - Your's Truly SC

Getting in Little Lamplight
Is there anyway into little lamplight without helping the children?
 * There's two ways to get in without rescuing the children from Paradise Falls. One, pass a speech check. Two, the Child at Heart perk.
 * On the PC, you can always open the console, click on the door, and type which will open the door; this will make the residents act like you were allowed in normally.Kris (talk) 19:12, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Spelling error
First paragraph in the introduction, chaperons should be chaperones.

I'd edit it myself, but y'know... locked page.

The entire cavern system
Shouldn't Murder Pass be considered part of the Little Lamplight Cavern system?--Ant2242 01:08, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Possible Explanation of How Little Lamplight Still Exists
I found myself thinking about this game and this quest again. The only explanation I can think of for the continuing existence of Lamplight is that Big Town is supplying the kids to Lamplight. Perhaps the residents of Big Town send their kids to live in the safety of Little Lamplight. There are no kids in Big Town and everyone in Lamplight knows about the existence of Big Town, so this is plausible. However, it doesn't explain how they aren't all inbred mutants by now. During the Trouble on the Homefront quest, you learned that because of 200 years of isolation, Vault 101 is only a generation or so from collapse due to genetic stagnation and inbreeding. There were 82 kids in Lamplight when the war broke out. When when you turn 16 you become a mungo and are forced to leave. The kids were from an elementary school, which means the first "mungos" would have been forced out in 4-5 years. If the adults didn't survive when they tried to go out for help, how can inexperienced 16 year olds? By the time enough of them survived to form Big Town, how many kids could have been left at Lamplight, and how many adults were in Big Town? Not counting Sticky, there are 19 kids in Lamplight and only 8 people (6 if you don't rescue Red and Shorty) in Big Town during the time of Fallout 3. Vault 101 started with more people than the 82 kids at Lamplight. If Vault 101 is suffering from genetic stagnation and inbreeding with a larger initial population, how is Lamplight not? Oh the crap you think of when you can't sleep. --jimnms (talk) 22:19, 27 May 2013 (UTC)