Talk:Rock-It Launcher/Archive 1

Origins
The origins of the Rock-It Launcher come from a Wizardry 8 mod, the author of which was trying their damnedest to finish parts, give unused/unusable items some purpose in the game, among other things. This is one of them. The original Rock-It Launcher was a Gadgeteer device made from a Centrifuge and a Heavy Spring, resulting in the effects of a Whipping Rocks spell, hence the pun in the name. Original item idea by DeanBB, http://vnboards.ign.com/wizardry_8_spoiler_board/b21210/99603592/p1/?8 (also credited in-game in the item description). Much like the original Rock-It Launcher, the Fallout 3 Rock-It Launcher takes otherwise useless items and makes them into something a bit more useful. Like most additions to the Fallout universe that Fallout 3 presents, it was done in an entirely superficial manner.

Removed
I removed:

"Whether this counts as a fourth revision or just a duplicate is not yet tested. (Whenever I found the foruth schematic it just added it to my inventory so I guess it's an extra[FenixZ2])"

All four schematics are identical. I found the Vault 101 one as my second, and it acted appropriately. Each schematic has the same Item ID, all the game does (afaik) when you pick one up is the script checks if you have it, and adds it to your notes if you don't, or upgrades it if you do. If you already have V3, it neither adds it or upgrades it, so it sits in your inventory.74.14.118.127 18:38, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

reload
Is there any way to re-arrange or unload the ammo in the Rock-It, without having to get to empty? If so, please remove this question and answer on the Rock-It page. Thanks! -RedKnight7 18:49, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As with any other weapon, you reload by tapping your reload button (Defaults: "X" on 360, "R" on PC, don't know about PS3).Fiddlesoup 02:12, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm to be more clear, when you push reload (x/r), it brings up the menu where you can add/remove junk.Fiddlesoup 18:19, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Square on PS3

JASPER42

Based on What?!
I don't know if this whole "based on weight" thing is real, my character on the xbox360 is able to do consistent damage from item-to-item, no matter the weight, including the "--" weight pre-war money. --AshRandom 22:55, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If you have 3 schematics it does the same damage no matter what is loaded.Galcoe 01:52, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Doesn't make alot of sense. As far as I know, schematics only effect condition, I'm going to test that now, so I'll post my results (I'll do it the old fashioned way, because I wouldn't even know where to begin looking in the GECK).Fiddlesoup 02:12, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. Here's my results, as promised (with no mods running). Level: 2; Enemies: 3 raiders who spawn on outside of Springvale Elementary; Number of Schematics: 1; Big Guns Skill: 15; Weapon Condition: Repaired to ~50%; Ammo used (20 of each): Pre-War Money-0, 2-Ball-1, Turpentine-2, Toaster-3 (only one, had to be reloaded), Pressure Cooker-5, Fission Battery-10.
 * Result: each enemy took two shots to kill, with the exception of one critical hit (Turpentine), several cippled limbs/torso (spread evenly), Health left after first shot varied between 2 and 4 bars. Two "exploded" limbs (legs), both from Pressure Cooker. Actual damage from Fission Battery was identical to that of Pre-War Money. I can check for size (as opposed to weight) but I doubt that'll make a difference. My conclusion is that the weight of your chosen ammo does not impact damage.edit: whoops forgot to sign Fiddlesoup 17:35, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for the confirmation test Fiddlesoup ;) I never mentioned that at the time of my post I had 1 schematic with fifty some points in bigguns. I played around with it some more today, gathering all 3 schematics didn't increase my damage. I think the whole schematic "theory" is either specific to the PC, or concocted. [[Image:Ash_Nuke.jpg]] AshRandom (Talk) 23:40, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. I enjoy doing stuff like this. Should we move the disputed statements to the talk page, or what? It doesn't seem like a good idea to keep that info up when it seems to be inaccurate. On a somewhat related note, the link at the bottom doesn't really point to a discussion of any importance.Fiddlesoup 04:27, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that we should leave statments till it has been proved wrong, then correct it. Fiddlesoup I belive that you are a man/woman after my own hard drive. on a different note I think that it's because by the time you've gotten more schematics you're big guns will have gone up as well.Jordanish 08:18, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Disputed

 * Damage=Based on ammunition, maximum 50
 * DmgShot=Based on ammunition, maximum 50
 * DPS=Based on ammunition, maximum 66
 * Reason - it is not readily apparent that weight actually effects damage

The Damage of this weapon varies with the type of ammo you put in it. Heavier objects do more damage i.e. a Vacuum Cleaner (weighing in at 10) will do much more damage than something that weighs 1 or 0.5.
 * Same, in-game tests show no differences based on weight, and I couldn't find anything in the GECK that would cause this to happen.

Note: If a player has all schematics and 100 big guns, the launcher has a default damage of 50 regardless of the object loaded.
 * I know this isn't true, the schematic script does the following (not necessarily this exact order; as I've reworded all of it):
 * 1. Check if/how many schematics the player has
 * 2. If 3, then add schematic as item and ignore step 3+. If 0, 1, or 2, proceed to step 3
 * 3. If 0, add schematic functionality; if 1 or 2, increase quality of schematic by "1.25" (i.e. initial condition of weapon).
 * 4. If 0, add schematic Note to Pip-boy; if 1 or 2 update schematic note in Pip-boy to reflect change of quality
 * 5. Display HUD message reflecting change of schematic quality.
 * Nothing in there would have the claimed effect.

The weapon does max damage no matter what it is loaded with after 3 schematics have been obtained.
 * Same as above statement with the Big Guns part stripped, shouldn't be re-added regardless.

-External Links- Rock-it Launcher Discussion
 * There's not really any useful information there. TC hopes it's not gimmicky, iron likes the idea of making weapons, m0rph_bw doesn't like the Fat Man, The Chosen misunderstand "making one's own weapons", and offtopic thinks "it" (what?) sounds like an easy way to kill your dog. Rock-It Launcher isn't even mentioned outside the first post.

If there's something I've missed that would impact this discussion, then feel free to provide that information, and change it back (except the repeated part and the useless link)Fiddlesoup 05:27, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

DPS

 * I like the changes. Why keep rumors and false information on the page. As far as the DPS goes, it isn't 66, that's just what I chopped it down to. We don't really know for sure what its DPS is. The GECK editor's DPS says 666 (sign of the devil), but that's just plain ridiculous as the launcher definitely doesn't get 13 shots per second. Until someone digs up the R.O.F. (in shots per second), we won't know its real DPS. [[Image:Ash_Nuke.jpg]] AshRandom (Talk) 20:08, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * All right. I wonder why the program that calculates dps came up with 666...Fiddlesoup 22:05, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Its presumed to be a gag. But who knows, maybe it can do six hundred damage a second - maybe it has a much much much higher ROF for the PC? (i'm on xbox360). I mean, there's no rumor or myth anywhere stating that it can do more than 50dmg, so it has to be ROF, we already know what its critical damage is, and we've affirmed that the GECK doesn't include critical%. [[Image:Ash_Nuke.jpg]] AshRandom (Talk) 22:16, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Well I messed around with it a little and it appears to have something to do with the models. Changing another weapons "Game Data" to match the Rock-It Launcher produces a DPS result of "166", however adding the animations and models of the Rock-It Launcher produces the jump up to 666Fiddlesoup 22:26, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * All right, I've narrowed it down. The projectile set for the Rock-It Launcher ("RockItLauncherProjectile") for some reason causes a drastic increase in DPS. Assigning it to a basic Laser Pistol takes the DPS for that weapon from 11 to 154Fiddlesoup 22:31, 9 January 2009 (UTC) Sidenote, entering a "Damage" of 0, gives a DPS rating of 499.


 * More messing around, don't know if it's supposed to, but the min/max semi-auto fire delay settings are impacting the result. Changing another weapons settings of ROF and Damage to 1 and 50 (RIL's settings) gives a DPS of 47, which seems more in line with other weapons. Adding in the min/max semi-auto fire delay settings changes it to 166 (only after switching tabs...?), and then adding the RockItLauncherProjectile bumps it up to 666.Fiddlesoup 22:54, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * That... sounds.... really... broken. LOL! hahhahaha omg... [[Image:Ash_Nuke.jpg]] AshRandom (Talk) 23:04, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sort of frustrated. I only recently got the pc version (used xbox before), my knowledge of Bethesda's editor isn't extensive enough to come up with a solution to this. Should we put "47" as DPS, or leave it as "currently unknown"? 166 is still too high because it outpaces every Big Gun but the Fat Man and the MIRV.Fiddlesoup 05:34, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * We just have to figure out its exact ROF, its got to be listed somewhere. [[Image:Ash_Nuke.jpg]] AshRandom (Talk) 09:48, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well... I found something. The animation group under the Art and Sound tab lists its "Attack Shots/Sec" as 3.3333, which accounts for the 166. But I don't see how that's accurate... it would explain why the DPS only jumped after I selected the Art and Sound tab, but still, at 166, it beats everything but the nuke-launchers.Fiddlesoup 06:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * True, but it's still a big guns weapon, high dmg potential should be expected. I can accept 3.33/s that doesn't sound too far from what I've experienced in game. And lets not forget it's 32AP, most characters won't actually be able to see 166DPS because either they can only get two shots off in VATS, or can't manage it in real-time because it's possibly the single hardest ranged weapon to aim with, excluding the fatman and miss launcher, but at least they have AOE. But, just like the terrible shotgun it works great at close range. I've had the experience of being backed into a corner by four Deathclaws and managed to point-blank splatter them just by going crazy on the trigger - with a pile of paper-money, spoons, and forks no less. [[Image:Ash_Nuke.jpg]] AshRandom (Talk) 11:05, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * All right then, problem solved. On to other subjects, I guess.Fiddlesoup 22:04, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Ammo Question
I've heard loose talk that the collision model of the ammunition fired from this thing affect how much damage the thing does. Same people said that the spork is somehow the most damaging ammunition if this is true. They say this is due to the wonders of Havok Physics Engine's wondrous handling of certain shapes and models (see the never-ending seizures that rocket corpses into the air). Is this true/testable? XXCrocmonXx 06:44, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

This is unlikely due to the separation of physics simulation and game calculation. The game ultimately operates on numbers. One bullet has the potential to do damage within a given range, with the variable thrown in for grazes and unexpectedly powerful shots and so on. The physics engine is used to take this from being turn-based to real-time. Now, the reason this is likely an utter crock is that shots from the Rock-It Launcher hit once and only once, and collision models only determine if a shot hits and do nothing to the damage of it except in segregating the damage done by headshots and limbshots. Even if the ammunition bounces into another target it will do zero damage and more than likely pass right through it, as far as I can tell. This is likely an equalizing measure to avoid situations exactly like the one you're describing, where a player locates an implement that due to unusual characteristics does unrealistic damage, as playtesting each and every possible piece of ammunition for the Launcher would be tiresome and any bugs found this way would require extensive editing to fix. One of the things that gives the spork and other cutlery the illusion of being so powerful is that it will do, according to the fine playtesting gentlemen earlier in the page, exactly the same damage as any other weapon. For fun, though, fire cutlery at a wooden door (I did this in Three Dog's pad) and examine the 'bullet hole' it will create, which looks as though the weapon reached speeds vastly in excess of your typical bullet.

I can debunk this easily. I actually did extensive testing on all sorts of enemies with multiple different types of ammo (enemies: raiders and enclave soldiers stripped of armor, super mutants, etc.; Ammo I included one of each weight and shape for the initial test, all in a later test.) Since the spork was one the items I tested, I can say with confidence that it dealt the same amount of damage as every other ammunition type. The only variables that came up in my test were enemy DR (which is why I took their armor), weapon condition (resulted in about .01 or so hp per shot difference, the same for each enemy), and player skill (I discounted any rounds with critical hits).Fiddlesoup 01:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Will NPCs use?
If you give this to an npc with some ammo, will they use it?67.172.16.255 13:51, 8 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I tried it with Jericho. So far he hasn't used it, not even without all other weapons. Himmelstoss 12:20, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * However,this forum post sugggests that the reason might be that he has other, better weapons. Himmelstoss 15:56, January 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Today I tried it with an Eclave Soldier that was equipped with a Missile Launcher (so he obviously had some big guns skill). I mezzed him, removed anything from his inventory, then placed the Rock-It-Launcher and some junk on him. Well, he preferred to attack me with his bare fists... Well, I think there is a problem with the AI. The Rock-It-Launcher is the only weapon that has to be loaded manually. Maybe NPCs cannot open the "trading window" that allows them to load items from their inventory into the Rock-It-Launcher's magazine. If we're lucky, Bethesda will fix this.84.115.18.130 11:27, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

crisscross1993
thats what i came here to see will npcs use i i may test this out and cheack the results i will try it with normal npcs and companions

Lose money making it?
Can someone please explain how you lose money making it? The Vacuum Cleaner is worth 20, Leaf Blower 15, Conductor 30 and Fire Hose Nozzle 5; that's 70 caps. The finished product is worth 200 caps... I just don't get it, 70 is NOT more than 200. Icko 20:41, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

he means the ammo fired, i think!

That's complete B.S; a green plate (my favoured ammo for this gun) has a weight and max value of 1, with a good repair skill and 2 or 3 schematics you MAKE money making and selling this. What's more someone keeps changing it back whenever I add in that with a good repair skill and a couple of schematics you don't lose money. Can this please get sorted out? Jordanish 12:55, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Well if you buy the schemetices whcih are around 1000 caps it gets more expensive. -unknown poster

You wont lose money, apart from the overly expensive schemetices (can be got for free via perk), the items used to make it and ammo are found everywhere. JASPER42

Repaired w/ conductor?
Really???
 * Sounds like it's from some sort of mod TBH, I'll try it out on the 360... 68.151.53.77 23:47, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't work. The note should be removed, I can't do it myself however. 68.151.53.77 23:52, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Pretty Crappy Tip
Brailee Ewers in Arefu can be a very useful source for ammo because after completing "Blood Ties"; she will bake you infinite "cookies", which happen to be bent tin cans.

This assumes tin cans are hard to find, which they aren't. And the whole point of the Rock-It Launcher is that it can use practically anything you find as ammo.

A must have for big guns only runs
I started a big guns only character and I have found this is an absolute must have weapon if you don't want to substitute with other weapon types early in the game. The minigun is rubbish and the rocket launcher is too expensive to use as a main weapon.70.50.134.91 22:07, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Mini gun does suck and rocket may bee too much as main but can be useful. You find large amounts of ammo and its a pretty common weapon, used by raiders, talon mercs and some super mutants. JASPER42

Deletion
I deleted the comment in the notes section stating "The rock-it launcher can be used as a backpack in case you cant carry any more equipment." This is not true its ammo's weight counts toward your total weight. if anyone sees why this should be put back let me know God damn ghouls 22:46, April 12, 2010 (UTC)